[Galayn Lord]

However...building on that thought....even if he misunderstood the mechanics of this game in terms of the CF, he wouldn't have suggested it AT ALL unless he actually did have the faction info that he claims to have. So he's claimed that he found me and we are on opposing factions. If he's faking it, he's screwing his team over by putting out misinformation, so that seems unlikely. From this point I can't help but assume he must know that he and I are on opposing factions instead of just picking a target at random, fake revealing, and hoping for the best. Cause that would be beyond universally stupid.

[Tiamatha]

I'm not voting for Denul. I don't want to vote for GL either, for now.

Korabas mentioned he'd vote for Eloth. Kesso also said something similar about Eloth.

remove vote
Vote Eloth

Hopefully we can agree on someone.

[Path-Shaper]

Time has been moved back.

It is Day 2. 12 hours 39 minutes remaining.

11 players alive: Alkend, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Iparth Erule, Kessobahn, Korabas, Lock, Monok Ochem, Tiamatha

6 votes to lynch. 6 votes to go to night.

2 votes Galayn Lord: Denul, Alkend
2 votes Denul: Korabas, Galayn Lord
1 vote Korabas: Tiamatha

Players not voted: Bek Okhan, Eloth, Iparth Erule, Kessobahn, Lock, Monok Ochem

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 28 February 2014 - 08:46 PM

[Galayn Lord]

Time was moved back 10 minutes. Looks like someone is indicating that Eloth isn't the direction to go? Or afraid of it. Not sure.

[Galayn Lord]

Ok, so math is not my strong point - I just subtracted the numbers from P-S's last update. It looks like from timestamps that time was moved back about 3 hours and 10 minutes.

[Korabas]

Tiam I want answers to my questions.

[Kessobahn]

Frankly, if we don't lynch, then I think one side has already won. And I don't know if that's a good or bad thing for me personally, but it doesn't look good for the game.

At night, the remaining vig can take out people same as night 1 until they and their TL have another acceptable result. After that they'll probably also have a safe pick to vote for, reveal, and that will be that. Which is what makes me wonder what stopped the other TL from reversing time back to day 1 and resurrecting their vig.

[Kessobahn]

Although i guess a guard could potentially throw a spanner in the works there.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 10 hours remaining.

11 players alive: Alkend, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Iparth Erule, Kessobahn, Korabas, Lock, Monok Ochem, Tiamatha

6 votes to lynch. 6 votes to go to night.

2 votes Galayn Lord: Denul, Alkend
2 votes Denul: Korabas, Galayn Lord
1 vote Korabas: Tiamatha

Players not voted: Bek Okhan, Eloth, Iparth Erule, Kessobahn, Lock, Monok Ochem

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 28 February 2014 - 11:25 PM

[Alkend]

I'm gonna disagree with Kesso and assume the remaining vig cannot act on nightfall. that and the likelihood the gaurd gets in the way makes it a ridiculous thing to worry about. If we have a killer/vig the gaurd has one obvious choice already. heck maybe both gaurds might go for the same guy. I suspect our vig continues to cull numbers. either the vig takes out those against Galayns faction or takes out those speaking up in his defence. this way we know what that vig thinks and on whose side the majority lies. I really doubt Galayn himself is in danger if the gaurdsmen do their job.

If you can give me assurances the vigs are still active I dont mind shifting my vote. otherwise Im suspecting my votes in the right place. Too many counter proposals has me certain the majority of people on were in one faction and Galayn is important.

I think theres a 3 to 1 chance Nothing will happen If we go to night without a lynch.

The minority need that lynch though otherwise one team stays unbalanced which hurts the team as day 3 will simply make which team that is more apparent.


I'm rather voting on Tiams hunch then as Galayn looks pretty big and kinda vig proof. I think theres a link between Galayn and Korabas. if they mean nothing to each other we won't get much interference. if they do atleast I'm certain a TL can bring Korabas back. He seems like a support, might be the opposite of our outed players and thats gonna help me figure out which side I'm on.


Remove vote


Vote Korabas

[Lock]

I just want to get some clarification on one thing: Why is it accepted that the vig is more than 1 shot? I don't think we can really say whether he's one shot or a normal killer yet because even though he killed multiple times last night, the first one was reversed, and so in the timestream's view, it never happened, even though we know it did. So until we know whether or not the vig strikes again tonight, we can't say for sure if he's a one shot vig (which I'm betting on, since a killer on each team would make the game really short and would be a bit OP imo, and the vigs last game were one shot) or a full fledged killer.

And now a quick opinion on the reveals:

I honestly have no clue who to believe right now... there is such a convoluted web of connections to sort through right now, so I need to look it over a few more times before I come to a decision. If it's decided that we'll lynch eloth just to get a lynch, I will lay my vote down, but I do want to take a closer look at the whole tiam/GL/Denul/Korabas situation.

[Bek Okhan]

Time moved back right after Tiam switched his vote away from Korabas. I think Korabas is a prime target and since I'm hesitant to vote for GL not knowing if he is on my team and not wanting to loose my TL if he is indeed that, I want to see where the Korabas move takes us.

Vote Korabas

[Galayn Lord]

Ok, before the shit goes down, I need to lay out some info. First:

 Path-Shaper, on 28 February 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

It is Day 2. 15 hours 45 minutes remaining.

11 players alive: Alkend, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Iparth Erule, Kessobahn, Korabas, Lock, Monok Ochem, Tiamatha

6 votes to lynch. 6 votes to go to night.

1 vote Galayn Lord: Denul
1 vote Denul: Korabas
1 vote Korabas: Tiamatha


Players not voted: Alkend, Bek Okhan, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Iparth Erule, Kessobahn, Lock, Monok Ochem



Weekend freeze will start when this Day times out (though I'll probably be in bed when that happens so resolution will take place at some point over the weekend). I'll resolve Night during the weekend and Monday will (ostensibly) be the start of Day 3.

The weekend freeze isn't happening until the day times out. Path-Shaper of course could change things, but so far I think most of us missed this. I know I did.

Second, something we haven't talked about -

At a minimum, three people know the faction of other alts.

The other Tertian besides Denul now knows that Denul is his opposite and therefore knows Denul's faction.

The other Lady Ete besides Eloth now knows that Eloth is his opposite and therefore knows Eloth's faction.

The other Sir Thursday besides Okral Lom now knows that Okral Lom is (was) his opposite and therefore knows Okral Lom's faction.

Let's not rush into a speed lynch. There is always more to come. In fact, I would recommend to anyone currently voting to remove until I have time to explain. For the love of God, don't pile on Korabas just yet.

[Bek Okhan]

 Path-Shaper, on 25 February 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

To set the record straight, the teams are equal.

It is 6v6v1.

I rejigged Doppelganger abilities to balance the game.

I thought this was clear when I killed off Milenio and Epoch. It has come to my attention from various offthread comms as well as the discussions on thread that it is not.

This is post from PS has got to be part of the mystery of this game. Originally, Dopplegangers out numbered the Originals, and by typical mafia balance logic, that means that the Originals probably had more abilities in compensation. But to balance such that the Dopplegangers had the numbers but no abilities and vise versa would be too dramatic, so there must be something more subtle in the ability distribution. So when the numbers were balanced, something in the abilities had to be tweaked. It would make sense that both sides would have matched abilities as a result, but then why do we only have 1 vig per night phase and why haven't we seen a crazy back and forth between the TLs. I mean a guard could be an explanation if it latched onto one of the two vigs, but I question that. Plus, what was so special about the two roles taken out of the game?

We have two of each character, right? And assuming they have exactly the same abilities, we should be seeing more action than we are seeing. Plus, in a game where there were more Dopplegangers, even two extra players with no roles would have been a huge advantage. So what was the Doppleganger mechanic originally used to balance the teams? More limitations on their abilities since they were copies not Originals? Weaker versions of the same abilities? Missing abilities for some roles all together? I think this is important because....

I thought I would look at the numbers behind the time movements (hours-minutes).

5-2 - first time move, post 5 paragraph 2 = Domingo

2-5

4-0

0-1

2-50

The timelords not only have the ability to move time such that votes are recreated or removed, but I am thinking that the number they choose can be meaningful. Also, what if the the copies share a matter-anti-matter balance of time. What if TL Original uses five minutes, TL Doppleganger can use five minutes too? Or what if the hours and minutes are reversed (like the first pair of numbers 2 hours 5 minutes and 5 hours two minutes).

I think that PS probably kept the game similar to the original game, meaning that the tweaking didn't involved dumbing down the game to equally matched teams trying to use the same exact roles more clever than the other. I think that it is a action-reaction game, where each Original action has a mirror image, however distorted, reactive action (hence the 2-5 5-2 interaction). And I am wondering if we can start separating out which TL is speaking with that realization? Which would make TL Original and Denul on the same team, and TL Doppleganger and Eloth on the other team, and maybe the Doppleganger Sir Thursday was killed in the final time push (but not saved by the other TL since he only had 4 minutes not 4 hours to play with).

of course, does the Doppleganger TL have 50 hours and 2 minutes now? Meh, making my head hurt.

[Bek Okhan]

 Galayn Lord, on 01 March 2014 - 03:41 AM, said:

Ok, before the shit goes down, I need to lay out some info. First:

 Path-Shaper, on 28 February 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

It is Day 2. 15 hours 45 minutes remaining.

11 players alive: Alkend, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Iparth Erule, Kessobahn, Korabas, Lock, Monok Ochem, Tiamatha

6 votes to lynch. 6 votes to go to night.

1 vote Galayn Lord: Denul
1 vote Denul: Korabas
1 vote Korabas: Tiamatha


Players not voted: Alkend, Bek Okhan, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Iparth Erule, Kessobahn, Lock, Monok Ochem



Weekend freeze will start when this Day times out (though I'll probably be in bed when that happens so resolution will take place at some point over the weekend). I'll resolve Night during the weekend and Monday will (ostensibly) be the start of Day 3.

The weekend freeze isn't happening until the day times out. Path-Shaper of course could change things, but so far I think most of us missed this. I know I did.

Second, something we haven't talked about -

At a minimum, three people know the faction of other alts.

The other Tertian besides Denul now knows that Denul is his opposite and therefore knows Denul's faction.

The other Lady Ete besides Eloth now knows that Eloth is his opposite and therefore knows Eloth's faction.

The other Sir Thursday besides Okral Lom now knows that Okral Lom is (was) his opposite and therefore knows Okral Lom's faction.

Let's not rush into a speed lynch. There is always more to come. In fact, I would recommend to anyone currently voting to remove until I have time to explain. For the love of God, don't pile on Korabas just yet.

So Korabas is on your team GL?

[Galayn Lord]

Now, relevant to the second point, the game started as 6 vs. 6 vs. 1. We have so far eliminated Domingo and one other player, effectively making the standing 6 vs. 5. But which faction has the numerical advantage?

Well, I know which faction does. Because I know this, and because Denul revealed Finder and fingered me, I also know his faction by deduction (supposing as I've said so far that he is telling the truth, and I see no reason for him to lie). This was a mistake by Denul because he played his hand...directly into mine.

[Galayn Lord]

 Bek Okhan, on 01 March 2014 - 03:50 AM, said:

 Galayn Lord, on 01 March 2014 - 03:41 AM, said:

Ok, before the shit goes down, I need to lay out some info. First:

 Path-Shaper, on 28 February 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

It is Day 2. 15 hours 45 minutes remaining.

11 players alive: Alkend, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Iparth Erule, Kessobahn, Korabas, Lock, Monok Ochem, Tiamatha

6 votes to lynch. 6 votes to go to night.

1 vote Galayn Lord: Denul
1 vote Denul: Korabas
1 vote Korabas: Tiamatha


Players not voted: Alkend, Bek Okhan, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Iparth Erule, Kessobahn, Lock, Monok Ochem



Weekend freeze will start when this Day times out (though I'll probably be in bed when that happens so resolution will take place at some point over the weekend). I'll resolve Night during the weekend and Monday will (ostensibly) be the start of Day 3.

The weekend freeze isn't happening until the day times out. Path-Shaper of course could change things, but so far I think most of us missed this. I know I did.

Second, something we haven't talked about -

At a minimum, three people know the faction of other alts.

The other Tertian besides Denul now knows that Denul is his opposite and therefore knows Denul's faction.

The other Lady Ete besides Eloth now knows that Eloth is his opposite and therefore knows Eloth's faction.

The other Sir Thursday besides Okral Lom now knows that Okral Lom is (was) his opposite and therefore knows Okral Lom's faction.

Let's not rush into a speed lynch. There is always more to come. In fact, I would recommend to anyone currently voting to remove until I have time to explain. For the love of God, don't pile on Korabas just yet.

So Korabas is on your team GL?

Actually, I can't be sure what faction Korabas is on, and that's precisely why I think we should be wary of voting for him. A bad lynch can cost either faction the game right now.

[Bek Okhan]

 Path-Shaper, on 05 November 2013 - 03:41 AM, said:

Game Setup:

Sunday's Court vs. Doppelgangers vs. Prince Domingo

Sunday's court start the game with more power and information, so they are slightly smaller than the Doppelgangers crew. Prince Domingo is an independent.

VCs for King Sunday's Court are to eliminate all the Doppelgangers.
VCs for the Doppelgangers is to eliminate all of King Sunday's Court.

Prince Domingo can win in two ways - he can either survive until one of the factions meets their VCs, thus winning alongside the faction, or he can complete the summoning of Lord Millenium before a faction meets their VCs, at which point everybody but himself dies.

CF will be in effect for this game, however you will not be told if a player is a member of King Sunday's court, or a Doppelganger.

Days are 36 hours. Nights are instant (so be sure to get your provisionals in if you want to perform your NAs).

Maybe the balance was a better start for the Originals but end game advantage for the Dopplegangers? Or did the Dopplegangers get less players but more information in trade? What is the information that was provided?

[Bek Okhan]

 Galayn Lord, on 01 March 2014 - 03:53 AM, said:

 Bek Okhan, on 01 March 2014 - 03:50 AM, said:

 Galayn Lord, on 01 March 2014 - 03:41 AM, said:

Ok, before the shit goes down, I need to lay out some info. First:

 Path-Shaper, on 28 February 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

It is Day 2. 15 hours 45 minutes remaining.

11 players alive: Alkend, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Iparth Erule, Kessobahn, Korabas, Lock, Monok Ochem, Tiamatha

6 votes to lynch. 6 votes to go to night.

1 vote Galayn Lord: Denul
1 vote Denul: Korabas
1 vote Korabas: Tiamatha


Players not voted: Alkend, Bek Okhan, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Iparth Erule, Kessobahn, Lock, Monok Ochem



Weekend freeze will start when this Day times out (though I'll probably be in bed when that happens so resolution will take place at some point over the weekend). I'll resolve Night during the weekend and Monday will (ostensibly) be the start of Day 3.

The weekend freeze isn't happening until the day times out. Path-Shaper of course could change things, but so far I think most of us missed this. I know I did.

Second, something we haven't talked about -

At a minimum, three people know the faction of other alts.

The other Tertian besides Denul now knows that Denul is his opposite and therefore knows Denul's faction.

The other Lady Ete besides Eloth now knows that Eloth is his opposite and therefore knows Eloth's faction.

The other Sir Thursday besides Okral Lom now knows that Okral Lom is (was) his opposite and therefore knows Okral Lom's faction.

Let's not rush into a speed lynch. There is always more to come. In fact, I would recommend to anyone currently voting to remove until I have time to explain. For the love of God, don't pile on Korabas just yet.

So Korabas is on your team GL?

Actually, I can't be sure what faction Korabas is on, and that's precisely why I think we should be wary of voting for him. A bad lynch can cost either faction the game right now.

Why this lynch? What is so important and game ending about this one lynch? Is it because a vig is down and the Dopplegangers (or Originals) are on the run?

[Galayn Lord]

 Bek Okhan, on 01 March 2014 - 03:54 AM, said:

 Path-Shaper, on 05 November 2013 - 03:41 AM, said:

Game Setup:

Sunday's Court vs. Doppelgangers vs. Prince Domingo

Sunday's court start the game with more power and information, so they are slightly smaller than the Doppelgangers crew. Prince Domingo is an independent.

VCs for King Sunday's Court are to eliminate all the Doppelgangers.
VCs for the Doppelgangers is to eliminate all of King Sunday's Court.

Prince Domingo can win in two ways - he can either survive until one of the factions meets their VCs, thus winning alongside the faction, or he can complete the summoning of Lord Millenium before a faction meets their VCs, at which point everybody but himself dies.

CF will be in effect for this game, however you will not be told if a player is a member of King Sunday's court, or a Doppelganger.

Days are 36 hours. Nights are instant (so be sure to get your provisionals in if you want to perform your NAs).

Maybe the balance was a better start for the Originals but end game advantage for the Dopplegangers? Or did the Dopplegangers get less players but more information in trade? What is the information that was provided?

This post by P-S was made based on having 15 players - 2 extra Doppelgangers - that are not in the game due to number restrictions. The teams are numerically balanced from the beginning; it only makes sense that P-S also balanced what you bolded above. It wouldn't make sense to pit two factions of equal number against each other and give one faction significantly more power and information. Something changed, we just don't know what.