[Stalker]

Silencer said:

1370654051[/url]' post='1061303']

Stalker said:

1370619177[/url]' post='1061220']

Silencer said:

1370606395[/url]' post='1061144']
@Stalker - any particular reason why?

Xbox is what my friends play, and plan on continuing to play, so that's important. Also, halo 5 and 6 are must haves. I bought the original Xbox for Halo and still love it despite some of the problems I had with Halo 4. And importantly, most of the Playstation exclusives are games I have no interest in. So, the main reason I want the Xbox is for the games, which better wow me at E3.

I still hope some of the info coming out isn't true. I don't like the daily license checks, I don't like not being able to share games with my brother (though we have different tastes most of the time), and I don't like the camera always being on. Actually I like the last point the least, because the other two won't impact me much. Maybe there will be time to change some of this in light of all the negative press. Hope so.

Have you tried educating your friends as to the horrific nature of the current Xbox One plans? I agree with you somewhat RE: the Halo series, but I honestly don't see 5 and 6 being improvements upon Halo 4 in terms of getting closer to what Bungie title is like. You could probably get away with not buying the Xbox One until Halo 5 releases and just play Destiny on PS4 in the meantime...
As for the exclusives...there aren't that many Xbox exclusives which are of note other than Halo, are there? XD At least PS3 currently has things like Last of Us, Dust514, and a handful of others which, even if not stellar, are better than the Xbox's current offerings. And the rest of the great games are multi-platform.

I can even understand not wanting to change because of the controller, but just buy a third-party Xbox form-factor PS4-compatible controller from somewhere not long after release.

Heh yeah, I love the Xbox controller, but I'm sure there will a 3rd party xbox form PS4 controller marketed to all the people jumping off the Xbox ship. I completely understand why people don't want to buy the new Xbox too. Their practices are way too restrictive, and I'm not sure why Microsoft thought it would be a good idea to implement these policies. Like I said earlier, I don't like the changes but they won't be affecting me or my friends too much. That doesn't sound good, does it? I guess I'm not set in stone, just leaning towards xbox. I wouldn't be against building a top tier PC either though.


As for exclusives on xbox- Gears of War, Fable, Alan Wake, Left 4 Dead (think it was exclusive) were all games that I really enjoyed. Crackdown 1/2 were fun but not excellent. Oh, and also my favorite underrated gem of the generation, Too Human.

This post has been edited by Stalker: 08 June 2013 - 02:23 AM

[Silencer]

Left 4 Dead was definitely on PC, and Fable sorta was (not sure about 2 and 3 though), and Gears of War...eventually. But yeah, I kinda stopped caring about Gears of War after the second one, Fable was never my cup of tea, L4D was great, but, as said, available on PC, and Alan Wake never piqued my interest. So I guess that's why I don't think there are many great Xbox exclusives I can think of! XD

It always pays to keep an open mind, but as I said, for me it's on principle this time - if PS4 has similar restrictions, I'm going 100% PC. If it doesn't, I'm still getting myself an awesome desktop, but will probably buy a PS4 as well. Xbox isn't getting my money unless they seriously backtrack on this stuff (99% not going to happen, though) or bring out some really ludicrously kick-ass exclusives or technology which transforms the experience.

The best thing about this E3 will be the surprises though. The new IPs and next-gen-only games, those are what I'm looking forward to at the moment. The existing franchises I don't care so much about (i.e. do we *really* need another CoD? I know coding is all about iteration, but my God! XD) any more. Especially as they collectively become more generic and uninspired/focus on "social" gaming and dumbing down of plot/worlds/systems.

[Jakovasaurus]

I would like to see any info about Red Dead Redemption 2 (rumored to be called "Red Dead Rebellion") and The Last Guardian.

[Overactive Imagination]

I'm hoping for a sequel to Vanquish and Shadows of the Damned.

[Overactive Imagination]

Jakovasaurus, on 08 June 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

I would like to see any info about Red Dead Redemption 2 (rumored to be called "Red Dead Rebellion") and The Last Guardian.

I liked RDR... but didn't you find that unlimited auto-head-shot-invincible-god-mode ruined the game? I played through more than half of it and I don't think I died once. RDR2 would be sick if it didn't have that same god-mode thing.

[Eddie Dean]

It would actually be the 3rd Red Dead game. Red Dead Revolver was on the original Xbox/PS2

This post has been edited by Eddie Dean: 08 June 2013 - 06:50 PM

[Jakovasaurus]

Overactive Imagination, on 08 June 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

I liked RDR... but didn't you find that unlimited auto-head-shot-invincible-god-mode ruined the game? I played through more than half of it and I don't think I died once. RDR2 would be sick if it didn't have that same god-mode thing.

You can change that in the options. And yes @Eddie Dean, I realize it would be the third Red Dead title .... <sigh>.

[Lucifer's Heaven]

First: Dying Light?
A cross between Mirror's Edge and DayZ with a touch of L4D? Fuck. Yes. (Dead Island doesn't get included because those cover it, and DI was shit)
This is going off the cinematic trailer I know, but if they capture how fluid and fun the movement was in Mirrors Edge that could be so awesome. Mirrors Edge is what I consider the most widely underrated game ever (or at least one of). Oh and it looks like it has special infected, which I require to suspend disbelief in an apocalyptic zombie setting (and is why I mentioned L4D).
Thank you for linking that Jakovasaurus

Second: Hellraid.
If that really is in the style of Dark Messiah, I am looking forward to it. DM was the most fun I've ever had at first person medieval fantasy combat.

Stalker, I know how you feel about the camera thing. The kinect nonsense is one of my biggest aversions too. And like Silencer I am very against some of their other practices.

Silencer, did you see CCP's updates on WoD from EVEFanfest? If not be prepared to be both wowed (especially as someone who has some idea about game developement, their dev tools make me jealous) and a little annoyed/disappointed. The bad bits are because the best part of the presentation was only viewable to people there, we don't get to see it. And because they flat out state the game won't be out till 2015 at the earliest.

Yeah, L4D was most definitely cross platform. It's a Valve game, and all of their games are available on PC. Also L4D2 was better in every way. Except maybe for the characters. I enjoyed Gears, but less as the series went on. Also, come 3 I found their male/female character designs next to each other annoyed me. Fable 1 and 3 are both on PC, but none others. Having finished them both, I think 1 was much better. I liked what I got to play of the Halo games. I'm never a fan of publishers owning something like that instead of the creators though. They didn't make it, and I find once they start to take control of it it tends to go downhill.
As I mentioned earlier Sony tends to have more great exclusives because they own way more studios, and specifically, many more great ones. Tomb Raider (the IP) was one of their creations, even if it's gone multiplatform. The Uncharted games were fantastic. The God of War games rocked. There are a fair few others, but when we get to individual games I forget which are by studios they own and which are third party but exclusive, like Dust 514 and Journey.
Actually that's the thing we may see a clearer difference on next gen; fantastic indie and third party games that are PS4 exclusive, or on the PS4 and the PC, but not Xbone. A more visible disparity is a guess of course, but Xbone has a fair few restrictions in place for indie devs and...unique games. Towards the end of this gen Sony has really welcomed indie devs and has been pretty open to allowing games with different structures on board. DUST 514 as an example, is a free game to get and play, and has optional microtransactions. It gets updated fairly often, including the occasional massive graphics and efficiency updates and restructures. CCP went with the PS3 for their game because they weren't allowed to do it how they wanted to with Microsoft. Gabe Newell, despite the difficulty of programming for a different architecture, said that he found developing/publishing games for the PS3 easier than 360. Which led to PS3 users being able to connect their Steam and PSN accounts.
And it seems like Sony is only getting more open with that sort of stuff.

[Stalker]

When I was mentioning exclusives, I meant exclusive across the consoles. Some of the PC versions were part of Microsoft's Games for Windows Live program, and as you mentioned L4D was Valve's game. Still meant that someone who gamed exclusively on a console would need an Xbox to play those games.

I definitely agree re: publishers owning the IP rather than the creators. I think that is the main reason the newest Halo had issues with things that had previously been done well in the Bungie created games.

As for indie devs, I'm surprised that the Xbox won't really be supporting them. The 360 was very indie friendly, both for game creation and distribution. Microsoft seems to have the 360 still as part of their game plan, for people that want to still keep and play all the arcade games that won't be available on the One. That Playstation 4 will be supportive of indies, is yet another move in the right direction for Sony. I'm still curious about their DRM though.

As for me, I want to see a lot more Destiny at E3!

[Silencer]

Stalker, on 09 June 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

When I was mentioning exclusives, I meant exclusive across the consoles. Some of the PC versions were part of Microsoft's Games for Windows Live program, and as you mentioned L4D was Valve's game. Still meant that someone who gamed exclusively on a console would need an Xbox to play those games.

I definitely agree re: publishers owning the IP rather than the creators. I think that is the main reason the newest Halo had issues with things that had previously been done well in the Bungie created games.

As for indie devs, I'm surprised that the Xbox won't really be supporting them. The 360 was very indie friendly, both for game creation and distribution. Microsoft seems to have the 360 still as part of their game plan, for people that want to still keep and play all the arcade games that won't be available on the One. That Playstation 4 will be supportive of indies, is yet another move in the right direction for Sony. I'm still curious about their DRM though.

As for me, I want to see a lot more Destiny at E3!

Interesting interpretation of exclusive there. I see where you're coming from but really that's a pretty narrow spectrum to take when one considers that consoles are just highly limited PCs. "Exclusive" to me has always, and will always, mean on that platform and no other. XD

Actually, the Xbox is pretty marginal in terms of indie-friendliness. From what I've heard they had quite restrictive practices in terms of what they allowed on the system, and have never actually encouraged indie games the way Sony did on the PS3...

And I'm still kinda surprised that M$ plans to continue to support a console which is a couple of solid years past its use-by date...I know that neither company is doing backwards compatibility, which sucks, but still...odd way to go about it.

And yes, more Destiny. Another game coming to PS4. XD

Briar King, on 09 June 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

Saw it in Game Informer but I'm hoping we get some good info the title: Theif. PS4/PC from Square Enix(Final Fantasy).

The new Thief game looks like it's going to be an atrociously/offensively bad "reinterpretation". Hopefully, I'm wrong.

[Obdigore]

Mentalist, on 07 June 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

Obdigore, on 07 June 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 07 June 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

Stalker, on 07 June 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

I'm really looking for Microsoft to wow me with their 15 exclusive titles set to launch in the first year of the Xbox one. Despite all the negative press, I'll be continuing to support them over Playstation.

I think just about everyone will be watching, just to see how many versions of Solitaire M$oft will restock their games library with.

What a beautiful spot of whiney hipster shit you are this morning.

LMAO. I don't own any consoles, so I don't have any loyalty issues. I'm a PC gamer, and both my PCs run Windows 7, and I spend lion's share of my gaming money buying DRM-free stuff thru GOG and Kickstarter. Oh, and I also usually only play SP games, and my Steam client is always offline unless i'm downloading a game. I'm the gamer M$oft wishes didn't exist.

But I'm not the one who presented a new console, and showed no new games for it (aside from CoD). I didn't make the entire presentation about stuff you can do with your TV, and having to always use Kinect. Oh, and the Solitaire thing may have been an M$oft comment related to Win 8 exclusive games, but given the direction M$oft's been heading, wouldn't surprise me if they flood XBone with casual games as well.

I mean, if they do announce anything nice and original, good for them, though I'll lament its exclusivity. But if they don't, no skin off my back.

So what you are saying is that you wanted Games at a hardware reveal? Good to know. I don't give two shits about your hipster bullshit. Microsoft straight up said they would be doing games at E3, and it was a hardware reveal. You, like all the other whiney children on the internet, could have shut it off right there if you didn't care about the hardware and only about games, and waited till E3 like everyone else.

Meanwhile, you act like you are the mighty corporate fighter, because you are 'the gamer MS wishes didn't exist'. Really? They just don't give two shits about you or your gaming habits.

[Silencer]

Obdigore, on 10 June 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 07 June 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

Obdigore, on 07 June 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 07 June 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

Stalker, on 07 June 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

I'm really looking for Microsoft to wow me with their 15 exclusive titles set to launch in the first year of the Xbox one. Despite all the negative press, I'll be continuing to support them over Playstation.

I think just about everyone will be watching, just to see how many versions of Solitaire M$oft will restock their games library with.

What a beautiful spot of whiney hipster shit you are this morning.

LMAO. I don't own any consoles, so I don't have any loyalty issues. I'm a PC gamer, and both my PCs run Windows 7, and I spend lion's share of my gaming money buying DRM-free stuff thru GOG and Kickstarter. Oh, and I also usually only play SP games, and my Steam client is always offline unless i'm downloading a game. I'm the gamer M$oft wishes didn't exist.

But I'm not the one who presented a new console, and showed no new games for it (aside from CoD). I didn't make the entire presentation about stuff you can do with your TV, and having to always use Kinect. Oh, and the Solitaire thing may have been an M$oft comment related to Win 8 exclusive games, but given the direction M$oft's been heading, wouldn't surprise me if they flood XBone with casual games as well.

I mean, if they do announce anything nice and original, good for them, though I'll lament its exclusivity. But if they don't, no skin off my back.

So what you are saying is that you wanted Games at a hardware reveal? Good to know. I don't give two shits about your hipster bullshit. Microsoft straight up said they would be doing games at E3, and it was a hardware reveal. You, like all the other whiney children on the internet, could have shut it off right there if you didn't care about the hardware and only about games, and waited till E3 like everyone else.

Meanwhile, you act like you are the mighty corporate fighter, because you are 'the gamer MS wishes didn't exist'. Really? They just don't give two shits about you or your gaming habits.

Which *totally* explains why they spent the entire thing talking about TV, rather than about, you know, the hardware. Vague details of the CPU, no info on the GPU, bit about the RAM, and...?

Such a GREAT "hardware" reveal! Meanwhile, what everyone else was watching: "TV. TV. TV. Kinect. Kinect while you TV! HALO TV SERIES. TV. More TV. TV. New FORZA game. COD GHOSTS!"

Oh sure, they told us a little about the OS, (wait, that's software, isn't it? O.o) and they mentioned a bit about apps (oh wait, that's software too) and they talked about Kinect (finally, hardware!) and how you can use it to browse the web or whatever while watching a movie (oh wait, that's actually not so much to do with the hardware, is it?) and crap. >.>


I mean, nice attempt to play the Devil's Advocate there, Obdi, but it kinda doesn't work when the so-called "hardware" reveal didn't actually reveal all that much about the hardware and instead spent most of its time focusing on how the game console now functions primarily as a TV with an attached always-on camera and that it needs to connect to the internet all the time to let you, you know, play games.

Frankly, I wasn't watching the reveal for the games. Though it's both smart, common, and polite to show a couple of exciting new IPs/sequels that get your blood up about what the hardware can do at these things. What I was watching for was the system. Which the presentation basically told me I didn't really want. The fact that they didn't show any kickass games on it as well, means that it really failed to pique my interest when they had an opportunity to make the console appeal *despite* the draconian anti-piracy measures and sudden desire to be a TV box instead of a console. Oh, sure, it's *true* aspirations are to be a PC, but those already exist and do it a lot better, so really it's trying to be a TV box.

Mentalist never said what he wanted was games at a console reveal. What he said was that it didn't talk about what the console can do *other* than TV, at a console reveal. Which is fail in anybody's book.

[Obdigore]

Silencer, on 10 June 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

Obdigore, on 10 June 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 07 June 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

Obdigore, on 07 June 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 07 June 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

Stalker, on 07 June 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

I'm really looking for Microsoft to wow me with their 15 exclusive titles set to launch in the first year of the Xbox one. Despite all the negative press, I'll be continuing to support them over Playstation.

I think just about everyone will be watching, just to see how many versions of Solitaire M$oft will restock their games library with.

What a beautiful spot of whiney hipster shit you are this morning.

LMAO. I don't own any consoles, so I don't have any loyalty issues. I'm a PC gamer, and both my PCs run Windows 7, and I spend lion's share of my gaming money buying DRM-free stuff thru GOG and Kickstarter. Oh, and I also usually only play SP games, and my Steam client is always offline unless i'm downloading a game. I'm the gamer M$oft wishes didn't exist.

But I'm not the one who presented a new console, and showed no new games for it (aside from CoD). I didn't make the entire presentation about stuff you can do with your TV, and having to always use Kinect. Oh, and the Solitaire thing may have been an M$oft comment related to Win 8 exclusive games, but given the direction M$oft's been heading, wouldn't surprise me if they flood XBone with casual games as well.

I mean, if they do announce anything nice and original, good for them, though I'll lament its exclusivity. But if they don't, no skin off my back.

So what you are saying is that you wanted Games at a hardware reveal? Good to know. I don't give two shits about your hipster bullshit. Microsoft straight up said they would be doing games at E3, and it was a hardware reveal. You, like all the other whiney children on the internet, could have shut it off right there if you didn't care about the hardware and only about games, and waited till E3 like everyone else.

Meanwhile, you act like you are the mighty corporate fighter, because you are 'the gamer MS wishes didn't exist'. Really? They just don't give two shits about you or your gaming habits.

Which *totally* explains why they spent the entire thing talking about TV, rather than about, you know, the hardware. Vague details of the CPU, no info on the GPU, bit about the RAM, and...?

Such a GREAT "hardware" reveal! Meanwhile, what everyone else was watching: "TV. TV. TV. Kinect. Kinect while you TV! HALO TV SERIES. TV. More TV. TV. New FORZA game. COD GHOSTS!"

Oh sure, they told us a little about the OS, (wait, that's software, isn't it? O.o) and they mentioned a bit about apps (oh wait, that's software too) and they talked about Kinect (finally, hardware!) and how you can use it to browse the web or whatever while watching a movie (oh wait, that's actually not so much to do with the hardware, is it?) and crap. >.>


I mean, nice attempt to play the Devil's Advocate there, Obdi, but it kinda doesn't work when the so-called "hardware" reveal didn't actually reveal all that much about the hardware and instead spent most of its time focusing on how the game console now functions primarily as a TV with an attached always-on camera and that it needs to connect to the internet all the time to let you, you know, play games.

Frankly, I wasn't watching the reveal for the games. Though it's both smart, common, and polite to show a couple of exciting new IPs/sequels that get your blood up about what the hardware can do at these things. What I was watching for was the system. Which the presentation basically told me I didn't really want. The fact that they didn't show any kickass games on it as well, means that it really failed to pique my interest when they had an opportunity to make the console appeal *despite* the draconian anti-piracy measures and sudden desire to be a TV box instead of a console. Oh, sure, it's *true* aspirations are to be a PC, but those already exist and do it a lot better, so really it's trying to be a TV box.

Mentalist never said what he wanted was games at a console reveal. What he said was that it didn't talk about what the console can do *other* than TV, at a console reveal. Which is fail in anybody's book.

We straight up said 'I'm not the one who made the reveal about things other than games'. And I agree it was a pretty shitty reveal, I just get frustrated at all the people whining about how MS only showed what, like 3 games? Forza, lolmadden, and COD? They straight up said they were going to do games at E3. Instead all the super-hipsters on the internet go 'lol no games what failsauce brotato!' and it makes me want to choke them out because they can't even understand simple sentences.

I'm not trying to play devils advocate, there are quite a few reasons to bash the MS reveal, I don't find a lack of games one of them. And then he gets on his high horse about hes so much better than anyone who plays console because he's 'fighting the system' and all this stupid shit. I'm surprised he didn't end his post with 'PC Master Race'.

I do want to say, after re-reading his post, I may (maybe) have added some overtones that Mentalist might not have included to it. If I did, I apologize. The internet hate of any/everything that doesn't straight up cater to the peoples whiney little worldviews make me want to wear babies as boxing gloves and start punching people.

This post has been edited by Obdigore: 10 June 2013 - 04:49 AM

[Jakovasaurus]

bwaaaahahahahahahahaha! : https://vine.co/v/bLEPaFIXJtW

[Obdigore]

Jakovasaurus, on 10 June 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

bwaaaahahahahahahahaha! : https://vine.co/v/bLEPaFIXJtW

Wait... 'Input One?' That... sounds like MS is telling everyone to put these things up their asses. Who the hell do they have doing their marketing campaign? Oh that is terrible.

[Mentalist]

Obdigore, on 10 June 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 07 June 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

Obdigore, on 07 June 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 07 June 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

Stalker, on 07 June 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

I'm really looking for Microsoft to wow me with their 15 exclusive titles set to launch in the first year of the Xbox one. Despite all the negative press, I'll be continuing to support them over Playstation.

I think just about everyone will be watching, just to see how many versions of Solitaire M$oft will restock their games library with.

What a beautiful spot of whiney hipster shit you are this morning.

LMAO. I don't own any consoles, so I don't have any loyalty issues. I'm a PC gamer, and both my PCs run Windows 7, and I spend lion's share of my gaming money buying DRM-free stuff thru GOG and Kickstarter. Oh, and I also usually only play SP games, and my Steam client is always offline unless i'm downloading a game. I'm the gamer M$oft wishes didn't exist.

But I'm not the one who presented a new console, and showed no new games for it (aside from CoD). I didn't make the entire presentation about stuff you can do with your TV, and having to always use Kinect. Oh, and the Solitaire thing may have been an M$oft comment related to Win 8 exclusive games, but given the direction M$oft's been heading, wouldn't surprise me if they flood XBone with casual games as well.

I mean, if they do announce anything nice and original, good for them, though I'll lament its exclusivity. But if they don't, no skin off my back.

So what you are saying is that you wanted Games at a hardware reveal? Good to know. I don't give two shits about your hipster bullshit. Microsoft straight up said they would be doing games at E3, and it was a hardware reveal. You, like all the other whiney children on the internet, could have shut it off right there if you didn't care about the hardware and only about games, and waited till E3 like everyone else.

Meanwhile, you act like you are the mighty corporate fighter, because you are 'the gamer MS wishes didn't exist'. Really? They just don't give two shits about you or your gaming habits.

lol. so much anger.
Silencer above covered a bunch of points much better than I could've. I do resent the hipster label however. You think i'm hating on M$oft for the sake of hating. This isn't entirely true.

And yes, you are absolutely right. M$oft don't care about my gaming habits. As a result, they don't get any of my money. Hooray, capitalism--instead my money goes to indie devs--developers not owned/tethered to a major AAA publisher.

I'm probably old-fashioned in this, but back home, before eveyone started trying to speak English, a console had a very appropriate name-- "pristavka". Which literaly means, "attachment". The idea being, it was something you attached to your TV to play games. It had a single purpose--that purpose being GAMES. And back then it was a luxury--because they cost a ton of money, in a country struggling with hyperinflation. even the cheap "Dendy" Nintendo knockoff systems were expensive as hell. I knew I think 2 kids in my elementary school class who had those, and they had parents that were working abroad to bing in that money.

So I won't deny that my view on this issue is skewed, but for me "consoles" will forever be "that thing you buy to play games on your TV". And, I'm sure that I'm far from the only person thinking that. My lifestyle choice, as well as my gaming tastes make PC a better fit for my needs--as a consumer, I've chosen a PC. I don't have anything against consoles, and I tend to focus my dislike of certain trends in gaming on publishers who fund the games being made and not the mythical console/casual/insertyourderogativeepithethere market that a lot of PC elitist whine about in forums.
As someone who's worked in marketing, I do like to observe the so-called "console wars" and watch how different manufacturers try to win dominance over the market. And as such, I make observations as a consumer about what I see the manufacturers doing.

And in this particular case, it was obvious that M$oft was going to reveal a new console. Sony did it, they had to do it too. But what I saw in that reveal was not described as a "thing you attach to your TV to play games". The main thrust of M$oft's pitch was "this thing (that is also a gaming console) will allow you to change the way in which you watch TV, by providing a new experience".

I'm sure that M$oft will release games for XBone. I'm sure that at least some of them will become smash hits, attract a rabid following, a ton of sequels, etc. And I'm sure people will buy it and play games on it. My point was simply that M$oft made no effort in its reveal to show its existing audience--those people who bought a 360 to play games rather than to watch NetFlix--that the XBone is somehting they want and need. My Solitaire jab was directed at the fact that M$oft's recent moves--from Win8, to XBone all seem driven by a burning desire to grab that market of "casual gamers", that Apple and Zynga discovered existed. It may have been out of place in this particular discussion. That being said, it remains to be seen how many of the games to be revealed will be targetted to the existing 360-owning audience, and what's even more important, how many of them will actually be designed to take advantage of the new possibilities of a more powerful console in thing that aren't just "higher-res graphics, more textures, and other eyecandy pretties", and will actually provide a stride forward in things like level design, AI, etc.

[Morgoth]

Considering how Consoles do not make money on their own, and with the amount of people who ened up using their 360 as a multimedia platform, or Netflix-box as it was named, it's hardly surprising that Microsoft chose to aim for a console that fulfills more than just gaming. It's a good idea in many ways, and certainly a better choice than focusing solely on games.

Right now things are rather cluttered in the whole multimedia department, so havign a single system that gathers them all for you will be attractive to many consumers I'm sure.

However, Microsoft sure did stumble in their presentation, and for some reason failed spectacularly at providing uniform information as to what the system was meant to do. What it could do. And yes, even though it was a hardware presentation they should at least have done some focus on what the new hardware would mean for game performance. Microsoft admitted as much in the following days.

When that is said, I'm sceptical of purchasing one even though I'm more than happy with my 360. The attraction to consoles have for me always been the ease of use and the low cost of the system. I bought the console in 2008 for .. $350? I don't have to worry about compatability, whether my system is advanced enough to run a new game and all that.

Now, with all the restrictions I don't know if it'll be worth it. The online thing seems unacceptable, though perhaps this is the way all things are heading. And I certainly will be uncomfortbale with a camera that always needs to be on in my living room. Paranoid, perhaps, but it would be too uncomfortable all the same.

At any rate, with a better presentation, which I'm sure Microsoft will cobble together closer to release, I think the direction they chose for the Xbox 1 will be the more profitable. Might be I'll turn out to be spectacularly far off in my prediction, but it's what I think so far.

Remember that sports games sell much much more than the "big" blockbuster titles. We are not the main market, and will be included in the strategy but not as the main focus.

[Silencer]

Morgoth, on 10 June 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Considering how Consoles do not make money on their own, and with the amount of people who ened up using their 360 as a multimedia platform, or Netflix-box as it was named, it's hardly surprising that Microsoft chose to aim for a console that fulfills more than just gaming. It's a good idea in many ways, and certainly a better choice than focusing solely on games.

Maybe in America, but in the rest of the world where we can't get Netflix on our Xbox (or anywhere else, for that matter), the Xbox is a poor choice for a multimedia platform. >.> I know that I use my Xbox almost exclusively for gaming and wouldn't use it for anything else, even were it any good at those functions (it occasionally saw use as a DVD player, but that functionality is commonplace and works better with real remote controls...).

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Right now things are rather cluttered in the whole multimedia department, so havign a single system that gathers them all for you will be attractive to many consumers I'm sure.

Yes, it's called a *PC*. They've been around for a couple of decades and are still far and away ahead of any game-console-media-box-hybrid. >.> Which brings me back to the point that buying an Xbox One will have but one (lol) advantage over buying a PC - the stable development platform angle. That's it. And that is vastly outweighed (imo) by the DRM and similar initiatives they're bringing in to it.

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However, Microsoft sure did stumble in their presentation, and for some reason failed spectacularly at providing uniform information as to what the system was meant to do. What it could do. And yes, even though it was a hardware presentation they should at least have done some focus on what the new hardware would mean for game performance. Microsoft admitted as much in the following days.

They stumbled because it was trying to be all things to all people - always a mistake, contrary to what you said above. That, and I'm pretty sure a key reason for the lack of uniform information was to do with rapid backtracking and rethinking performed on-the-fly after the serious backlash to some of the original announcements/comments.

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When that is said, I'm sceptical of purchasing one even though I'm more than happy with my 360. The attraction to consoles have for me always been the ease of use and the low cost of the system. I bought the console in 2008 for .. $350? I don't have to worry about compatability, whether my system is advanced enough to run a new game and all that.

Now, with all the restrictions I don't know if it'll be worth it. The online thing seems unacceptable, though perhaps this is the way all things are heading. And I certainly will be uncomfortbale with a camera that always needs to be on in my living room. Paranoid, perhaps, but it would be too uncomfortable all the same.

Easiest way to help STOP it becoming the "way all things are heading"? Don't purchase anything that requires it. Like the Xbox only-1-advantage-over-PCs.

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At any rate, with a better presentation, which I'm sure Microsoft will cobble together closer to release, I think the direction they chose for the Xbox 1 will be the more profitable. Might be I'll turn out to be spectacularly far off in my prediction, but it's what I think so far.

Remember that sports games sell much much more than the "big" blockbuster titles. We are not the main market, and will be included in the strategy but not as the main focus.

All I'm going to say here is, "third console curse".

Oh, and it's not like the PS4 isn't going to be media capable. It's just not going to be sell-out-the-game-console-market-for-TV-market media-focused. XD

[Morgoth]

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Yes, it's called a *PC*. They've been around for a couple of decades and are still far and away ahead of any game-console-media-box-hybrid. >.> Which brings me back to the point that buying an Xbox One will have but one (lol) advantage over buying a PC - the stable development platform angle. That's it. And that is vastly outweighed (imo) by the DRM and similar initiatives they're bringing in to it.

This here shows that you simply do not understand how most people view these things. You are a tiny tiny part of the market as am I. The people who spend money, serious money, on televisions surround systems and dvd players, are people like my dad - and I'm guessing; your dad - who wouldn't even entertain the thought of buying a computer to function as the heart of all their multimedia connected needs. Shit, I'm not sure if I could be bothered.

They want you to buy the x1 too, and I'm guessing a large portion of gamers will, but we're not the true focus. It's all those other people. The vast majority.

I realise this PC thing is important to you, I have friends who're computer engineers and it's important to them too, but it's a little silly to assume that what's important to you is important to all. Most people don't even like PCs and certainly don't want anything that complicates their use of PCs in the slightest.

[Silencer]

Morgoth, on 10 June 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

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Yes, it's called a *PC*. They've been around for a couple of decades and are still far and away ahead of any game-console-media-box-hybrid. >.> Which brings me back to the point that buying an Xbox One will have but one (lol) advantage over buying a PC - the stable development platform angle. That's it. And that is vastly outweighed (imo) by the DRM and similar initiatives they're bringing in to it.

This here shows that you simply do not understand how most people view these things. You are a tiny tiny part of the market as am I. The people who spend money, serious money, on televisions surround systems and dvd players, are people like my dad - and I'm guessing; your dad - who wouldn't even entertain the thought of buying a computer to function as the heart of all their multimedia connected needs. Shit, I'm not sure if I could be bothered.

They want you to buy the x1 too, and I'm guessing a large portion of gamers will, but we're not the true focus. It's all those other people. The vast majority.

I realise this PC thing is important to you, I have friends who're computer engineers and it's important to them too, but it's a little silly to assume that what's important to you is important to all. Most people don't even like PCs and certainly don't want anything that complicates their use of PCs in the slightest.

My point is that the lack of understanding of PCs has nothing to do with them being PCs - and Xbox or a PS3 IS A PC, they just run a different OS and in the case of the Xbox One, guess what, it's running a version of Windows 8. The only reason people "don't like PCs" and don't understand them enough to realize that sticking one via HDMI cable onto their TV is a 3-second operation is through (wilful) ignorance.

And frankly, my dad wouldn't EVER buy a *gaming console*, not even one cleverly marketed as a media hub, to be the heart of his entertainment system. He wouldn't use a PC, either, but they're of a level for that kind of thing - he would buy a blu-ray player or a DVD player and a Freeview box/Sky box if he wanted pay-TV, and that would cover that.


The thing is, the only reason the PC thing is a sticking point for me is because the Xbox One is now a PC with built-in DRM and a non-upgradeable 500GB HDD, running a version of the stupid Windows 8 OS and comes with a TV function in it. At the moment I don't even have a desktop PC - I have a laptop, and that's it. I own an Xbox. I'll probably end up owning a PS4. That doesn't change the fact that the Xbox One is a bad device, and a stupid attempt at pushing in on a broader market when, news flash, it's the successor to a games console. You can go on about how people use them as Netflix boxes all you want but that is NOT how the Xbox or Xbox 360 was designed, marketed, or sold. That was a feature added YEARS after release which people who already owned an Xbox took advantage of and a few people got a two-for-one out of. Unless you can show me the sales figures which took a massive upswing after the Xbox started being able to stream Netflix (protip, there wasn't one; 360 sales have been trending downwards, sufficient for the PS3 to catch up) I'm not buying your "everybody buys Xboxes to do what their Netflix box already does for much less money" line.

Is M$ trying to capitalize on that aspect of their product's functionality? Sure. But that doesn't make it the key aspect - just the latest one with room for growth. The gaming market is divided down the PC/Xbox/PlayStation/Nintendo lines and is a relatively inflexible area for them. That doesn't mean it's not an important area, or a key area, even, it just means it's not something they can GROW. While TV/media is - because it's something that isn't that huge for them...yet.

At the end of the day, however, if M$ want to drive AWAY their gamer market, either to Sony or to PC (bear in mind, while I continually point out that PC is in fact a better version of what the consoles are, I still think Sony, if they don't do what M$ is doing, are a great choice) then that's up to them. Because if they do, I can guarantee you that the few million additional sales they get because of Netflix will not make up for that loss.



In short - I know exactly the market M$ is aiming to grow with this. That market consists of people who have never realized what a PC is, what it can do, or why a console is just a limited version of one. HOWEVER, that is irrelevant to the fact that M$ has assumed their existing market (that is; gamers) will stay with them, while doing everything in their power to make Xbox One the less desirable console out of the two next-gen contenders, and has simultaneously made the distinction between PCs and their console a moot point - which is stupid in and of itself, and something more people should be aware of.

For better or for worse, M$ is gunning for the mass market. Personally I doubt that will work precisely *because* people like my dad are not going to waste their money on something that will function as a vague "media hub" for their entertainment system when they already have those set up, and were they to redo it, could do it considerably cheaper without paying for the gaming console (because guess what, that is still what the mainstream will view it as). This is why Sony has the upper hand right now. Well, that, and no intrusive DRM practices, leaving their console (for the moment) the clear choice for anyone who wants to 1) Play games 2) watch movies 3) browse the net and 4) doesn't want to do the above on a PC.