[sting01]

stone monkey, on 21 June 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

sting01, on 21 June 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

What do I feel when I hear some of the poster here, I did felt it in the past during Desert Storm 2; when some americains called me 'anti patriotic' because I expressing my doubts with regards to the goals of this operation. I believe they simply forget I was not a US citizen; while it was normal they support their own government, it was also normal I support mine. Both attitude (in fact that is the same) is patriotic. Happily here that is not the same discussion, but I fear some reactions are similar.

Really? So you vote for the incumbent government every time? That's a bit... odd.

Now, if you mean that you will always support your own country against foreign criticism even if those foreign critics have a point then your priorities are a bit out of whack, I should think. Hell, I don't support my own government all the time (rarely, in fact) and I work for them! To my mind; patriotism, as the quote goes, is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

No I did not vote for them, as I do knew most of them personaly from a previous life.

Patriotism is what allow you to make a difference btw what is good (or what you suppose to be good) for your country (or your tribe with an extended sense), and what is good for a group of people (that you may or may not know, that you are included in or not included in). Patriotism is what made me stand tall and brave in Beyrouth in November 1983, and go for the bastards who killed my brothers in arms (and not bombing innocent civilians srviving in the beka'a plain, because is call vengeance and is disgusting). Patriotism is what make you proud of your country, AND understand a citizen of another country is equally proud of his/her country. Patriotism is what make you stand against any natiolism, because you do not belittle others, you glorify what is yours (or what you assume is yours). Patriotism is the very virtue you must possess to be a Von Stauffenberg, a Luckner, a Nelson, a Leclerc or even a McArthur. You can not hide behind patriotism, neither can it shield you; but like the french flag around Lenine' corp, it is the only cloth you can take for your last trip, when yo uwill meet your Maker and your ancestors. Patriotism, at least, is what make you act every morning for your country and your fellow citizens, instead of making you dream of what your country or fellas should do for you.

So sorry to have previously express baddly, but english is a maze to me.

Anyway, maybe it would be simplier if we would agreed to disagree, and move on another topic? Because speaking about McArthur and patriotism over a conversation on Amazon, I believe we are (am I???) out of said topic, lol.

[Geoffray]

The fact is that actually, our government have a hard job. I known, this sound like silly excuses (maybe they are :/) but the previous government was a real mess. They stay more than 10 years, and France goes to the pit of hell... So, the new socialism (but please do not mistake this for communism. It's socialism as "help for poorer people" kind of meaning- in a really, really shot way) government must refill the "safe"/"chest" of the country. All this to say, that Amazon (as some other big company, french included) does not pays his taxes, and this is really lame. So, some of our "secretary"(Ministre) are more passionate than others on the subject and this include some "backslash" comment. I've voted for them (all right, thrown some tomatoes on me />) but I think that on this particular subject, they don't take the good approach. You don't get something when you're aggressive with someone you want to work with.

It's just my 2 (or this's 5?) cents />.

This post has been edited by Geoffray: 30 June 2013 - 04:24 PM

[Spoilsport Stonny]

All governments have a hard job. It seems like most of them are just cleaning up messes from the guy that was in there before they were, and the cycle continues over and over, mostly because the next guy in there is an answer to the failed policies of the guy before. The question is though, should hese governments impede the progress -- or regress, arguably, -- of business, or do they have the right to cherry pick whoever they want to succeed? Does or does not a person have a right to buy a book from wherever they want to? Is there any danger of this type of regulation impeding economic growth, or does it actually level the playing field by not allowing amazon to sell at a lower cost and thus causing these businesses to close because they cannot compete?


An update, from Christian Science Monitor:

http://www.csmonitor...zon-s-discounts

slighly more opinionated:

http://www.mhpbooks....very-discounts/

This one talks about French regulations on food too:

http://www.salon.com...n_underselling/

[sting01]

Geoffray, on 28 June 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

The fact is that actually, our government have a hard job. I known, this sound like silly excuses (maybe they are :/) but the previous government was a real mess. They stay more than 10 years, and France goes to the pit of hell... So, the new socialism (but please do not mistake this for communism. It's socialism as "help for poorer people" kind of meaning- in a really, really shot way) government must refill the "safe"/"chest" of the country. All this to say, that Amazon (as some other big company, french included) does not pays his taxes, and this is really lame. So, some of our "secretary"(Ministre) are more passionate than others on the subject and this include some "backslash" comment. I've voted for them (all right, thrown some tomatoes on me />) but I think that on this particular subject, they don't take the good approach. You don't get something when you're aggressive with someone you want to work with.

It's just my 2 (or this's 5?) cents />.

Not always, there have been time in France, and not so far away, where the previous government left with coffin plentier that it was when they took power. Rougthly, to not hurt any sensibilities, it have happend several times from 1977 up to 1995. Fact is it was not related to what side the government was, but more who was the Prime at that time, and how economy was managed.

Fact also, whatever the sins (and they are numerous, past and present) of the actual government, the previous Head of State (sorry I still can not accept to call him something else) simply destroyed what was existing, and by pure greed (both political and personal greed) made things worst for most of them (but worry not, the Fucket group became richer and greedier under him). Notice, it is a personal attack against once individual, not against a political party in large; but that individual simply pushed ultra liberalism , and made that ultra liberalism a phylosophy of greed, personal power, corruption active and passive, concussion; while all those always exist , he made that similar to the Credo of Nicea (with the help, and that is funny) of the mayor of the city of Nice (worst than the dwarf himself).

So yes, as for today, the government (left wing, but an honest right wing government would do the same) is fighting for any kopeck possible to avoid France to be bankrupt, and make my fellow citizens third world citizens, such as the greeks or the maltese.

Hell, we are speaking about France here, not about Serbia, Ivory Coast, Maldives Island; that is the 5th industrial power, a permanent siege at the UN, with VETO right, a country spread across 5 continents and 7 oceans. It is very scary, because if us, then soon it will be Germany, then UK ... So yes there is a duty to elevate the heavy burden of the citizens, to collect taxes from Big corporates who do not act correctly. If Amazon were paying in USA, NEVER EVER that discussion would have existed. It is because AMAZON cheat the IRS in the States, and BERCY in France, that we have such discussion. By here, a patriotic stand for a US citizen would be to push Amazon to pay taxes to the IRS, eleviate the burden of US tax payers, , by so helping globaly to fight against the crisis, and eventually help also by side effect (US is the biggest market still) the other countries. Tax Amazon in USA, if not then tax it in France, in Germany, in Italy, in Greece ....