[Atrahal]

Hanas, on 04 June 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 04 June 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

They walk along the beach and see how the starlight is reflected in the water. The water is so still, that it seems like up is down and down is up. And surrounded by stars, they walk there till the first light of dawn.


It is Day 2. 36 hours remaining

13 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Desra, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Skintick, Tholen, Tiamatha

7 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.


Players not voted: Atrahal, Cast, Desra, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Skintick, Tholen, Tiamatha

13 players. 2 killers. 1 guard. 1 healer.
No NKs
Very good guessing. 1 or both killers abstaining. Or mod shenanigans.
Day 2 looks to be fun. Where's the popcorn?

This a town post or a scum post? He wants to speculate as to why there was no kill, which is wifom but do you think he is fishing for information for his masters?

[Atrahal]

Shadow, on 04 June 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

Hanas, on 04 June 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

13 players. 2 killers. 1 guard. 1 healer.
No NKs
Very good guessing. 1 or both killers abstaining. Or mod shenanigans.
Day 2 looks to be fun. Where's the popcorn?

Yeah, really unsure what to make of it.

It's possible they kill on alternate nights for example. It has been the case before anyway, not sure how likely it is.

Co-ordinated withhold? Or just both independently deciding to, it's a feasible strategy.

Really unsure.

Shadow bites. He is first to discuss this with Hanas. Now their interaction is interesting because Shadow points out the alternate kill theory which could be a huge signal to the other killer. Let's see what Hanas replies

[Shadow]

Korlat, on 11 June 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Ok, I'll first address Shadow's posts, since it's partly about me (although, not actually to me, so I'm not certain whether he's asking something of me here or just trying to highlight some things).

Shadow, on 11 June 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

Cast seems to be getting a lot of heat.

Hanas, on 10 June 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

Cast has been on everyone's list at one time or another and still around.

This also stuck out to me.

Being on everyone's list isn't exactly what you'd expect from someone with a symp.

This seems an interesting point. You're saying how could Cast be the killer if no one is remotely interested in defending them? The problem I see is that opinion is divided on whether Cast could be a killer, or just a symp. There aren't as many people straight out accusing Cast of being a killer as you seem to imply. So any lynch movement their way stalls for that very reason. But they've being getting heat from a number of directions because they have done a number of scummy things over the course of the game, as you point out below.

I don't feel opinion is that divided. Certainly the Hanas as symp camp seems larger than people thinking Cast is, and if they think Hanas is the symp but Cast's play seems off, the implication is clear enough.

What you say is almost in agreement with my point.

There aren't that many people straight out accusing Cast of being a killer.

But there are a lot of people going along in agreement that he seems off, hopping onto it. Which makes me kind of hesitant.

Korlat, on 11 June 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

I do still think symp fits better for Cast - and yes, especially in relation to the posts during the Galayn lynch. As I mentioned above, you disagreed, but I'm not sure as many people have followed you on that thought (at least in any concrete way), as you make out. Otherwise, why isn't Cast lynched already?

Yeah, he wasn't lynched yesterday. But we do see this sort of sentiment:

Atrahal, on 10 June 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

I think either him or Cast is the killer.

And then today:

Tholen, on 10 June 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

I have no problem voting Cast...

Idk, just seems there are people are following along on Cast, just saying they agree with others opinions and leaving it at that.

He has done scummy things, definitely. But looking at yesterday, it's really only the reaction to the reveal, which didn't seem to me to get that much heat at the time, and then suddenly we have a bunch of people agreeing Cast is scummy without, as you say, outright doing much on it.

It's the way people are interacting in regards to Cast I find odd.

Will respond to the parts about you in a separate post.

[Atrahal]

Hanas, on 04 June 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

Shadow, on 04 June 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

Hanas, on 04 June 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

13 players. 2 killers. 1 guard. 1 healer.
No NKs
Very good guessing. 1 or both killers abstaining. Or mod shenanigans.
Day 2 looks to be fun. Where's the popcorn?

Yeah, really unsure what to make of it.

It's possible they kill on alternate nights for example. It has been the case before anyway, not sure how likely it is.

Co-ordinated withhold? Or just both independently deciding to, it's a feasible strategy.

Really unsure.

Would you care to speculate on how the coordination took place? Just when I was thinking you might not be scum.

Puts a bit of a dampener on him being Shadow's symp.

[Atrahal]

Shadow, on 05 June 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

Hanas, on 04 June 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

Shadow, on 04 June 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

Hanas, on 04 June 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

13 players. 2 killers. 1 guard. 1 healer.
No NKs
Very good guessing. 1 or both killers abstaining. Or mod shenanigans.
Day 2 looks to be fun. Where's the popcorn?

Yeah, really unsure what to make of it.

It's possible they kill on alternate nights for example. It has been the case before anyway, not sure how likely it is.

Co-ordinated withhold? Or just both independently deciding to, it's a feasible strategy.

Really unsure.

Would you care to speculate on how the coordination took place? Just when I was thinking you might not be scum.

Via signal presumably. Would be worth checking back to see if there is anything that didn't look suspect at the time that could suggest something like that. Dunno, just throwing possibilities out there really and it's one of them. Dunno what's scummy about it tbh?

I'm hesitant to jump on the possibility of roled players being successful, because it's a risky thing to put weight on for town, and there are other possibilities.

This post goes in Shadow's favour, he does not want roled players to give information, he wants to look at other avenues.

[Atrahal]

Hanas, on 05 June 2013 - 01:13 AM, said:

Tiamatha, on 04 June 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

So is that killers afraid of hitting one another, a successful heal, a successful guard, or some combination therein? And this is the second time I've seen this from Shin in recent history

Healer and guard both getting it right would be rather unlikely. My guess is that one killer abstained, the other forgot to put an action in, and the healer was guarded. Or Shin was a killer and Liz gave the role to somebody else.

WIFOM symp boy.

[Shadow]

Atrahal, on 11 June 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Tholen, on 04 June 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

wow...it looks like we have incompetent killers

Berating his partner for not getting a kill in? We know it was GL that was guarded. Thin I know but I actually think this is genuine joy.

Side note, because later on we get:

Galayn Lord, on 06 June 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

On the bright side, seems like we have the most incompetent killers in the history of mafia, which betters our chances somewhat.

And I just noticed the similarity.

Edit: grammar

This post has been edited by Shadow: 11 June 2013 - 11:36 AM

[Atrahal]

Karatallid, on 05 June 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Wow, a whole like 10 posts since I left yesterday. Oh well, at least we got the lynch. As I suspected, Silchas came back town. Doesn't discount him being the symp, but I guess we shall see how the game goes. I am surprised and confused about the no NK situation. Possible that no provisionals were given? Maybe the killers, or at least one of them, actually is one of the low posters.

First underlined wtf. I told you so. Only killers would know.

The second is what interests me. We have guard's and healers in this game but he is confused by the no kill situation. This reaction is not as good as Shadow's. So minus one point in Kara's direction.

[Atrahal]

Shadow, on 11 June 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

Atrahal, on 11 June 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Tholen, on 04 June 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

wow...it looks like we have incompetent killers

Berating his partner for not getting a kill in? We know it was GL that was guarded. Thin I know but I actually think this is genuine joy.

Side note, because later on we get:

Galayn Lord, on 06 June 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

On the bright side, seems like we have the most incompetent killers in the history of mafia, which betters our chances somewhat.

And I just noticed the similarity.

Edit: grammar

That could just be Galayn robbing Tholen's use of language because he is pissed off with himself for getting guarded. I don't know, if Galayn used it first and then Tholen it would be a bit more damning.

[Atrahal]

Korlat, on 05 June 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

Sorry I've been away even longer than I envisaged. Looks like we got lucky with the no kills, though there are way too many variables for why that happened for my liking, though I would say the least likely is that both killers forgot to put in provisionals. One forgetting maaaybe (though again, I feel it's one of the unlikelier scenarios), which means I reckon at least one was affected either by good play from guard/healer, or an abstention, as someone mentioned already.

I should (hopefully) be around quite a bit today.

See this is what puts me thinkng Korlat is more town because he thinks of there being two killers with kills the same as me. Whereas both Kara and Shadow thought of alternating killers first or together.

[Atrahal]

See Kara's explantion or reasoning about a no night kill was because there was no provisional, where does this belief come from?

Shadow, on 05 June 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 05 June 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

I'm here and thanks to the small amount of posts on thread caught up.
Will be on and off for some time.*








*I cannot care less about what happens on thread, but unfortunately I don't like to be mod-killed and ruin the game so I will post and hope you lynch me or I will get nked.

Town not playing an being a distraction is more annoying imo. If you're town and we lynch you for not playing, it's a worse result than you being modkilled. If you have enough time and want to play the game, you should try and contribute. If you don't, then why sign up? This kind of coasting is a total pain.

Karatallid, on 05 June 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Wow, a whole like 10 posts since I left yesterday. Oh well, at least we got the lynch. As I suspected, Silchas came back town. Doesn't discount him being the symp, but I guess we shall see how the game goes. I am surprised and confused about the no NK situation. Possible that no provisionals were given? Maybe the killers, or at least one of them, actually is one of the low posters.

Another possibility. Still seems sort of unlikely. It's not like there was a speed lynch, they had a lot of time, and if they knew they wouldn't be around much it seems unlikely they'd not put a provisional in at least.

More likely if they do kill on alternate nights or something like that. Also possible they'd had a prov in on shin or something.

Korlat, on 05 June 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 05 June 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

Having no kill on night one with a modkill and a lynch benefits us. I am hoping for a similar outcome tonight minus the modkill.

Wait, so you're hoping that we can get a lynch and that there are no kills in the night? Why didn't you also mention that you hope the lynch is a successful scum lynch and so fully declare your inno intentions and beliefs to the thread?

Agree with this sentiment.

[Atrahal]

Cast, on 05 June 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 05 June 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Wow, a whole like 10 posts since I left yesterday. Oh well, at least we got the lynch. As I suspected, Silchas came back town. Doesn't discount him being the symp, but I guess we shall see how the game goes. I am surprised and confused about the no NK situation. Possible that no provisionals were given? Maybe the killers, or at least one of them, actually is one of the low posters.

This kind of hand wringing and "I knew he was inno" whining always bugs me. The only people that have an inkling of what a cf will be are scum.

Suspicion on Kara. So early game it was possible, but not now, not after this post.

Cast maybe less likely symp. Hanas symp, obvious symping of Shadow leading us away from their master? Tholen, Korlat, Kara? Just putting this out there for now.

[Atrahal]

Shadow, on 05 June 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

Cast, on 05 June 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

That's your case? Because he was trying to seem dismissive? How about signaling or being first vote on Silchas?

Voting him for being wrong about Silchas would be a bit stupid. More interesting on the Silchas Train is Kara switching shortly after Tholen's vote.

I didn't like his reaction to pressure. That is a pretty standard reason to vote someone. Instead of actually addressing the point he made a really big stretch (focusing on them using the word "wait", in a context where it is completely understandable) to "brush off" the point instead.

Interesting point you have made here Shadow. Tholen with his posts reminds me of Anthras' playstyle a few games back where they were scum. One reasonable post every now and then, not much of a case maker.

[Atrahal]

Cast, on 05 June 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

Hood, on 05 June 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

Cast, on 05 June 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 05 June 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Wow, a whole like 10 posts since I left yesterday. Oh well, at least we got the lynch. As I suspected, Silchas came back town. Doesn't discount him being the symp, but I guess we shall see how the game goes. I am surprised and confused about the no NK situation. Possible that no provisionals were given? Maybe the killers, or at least one of them, actually is one of the low posters.

This kind of hand wringing and "I knew he was inno" whining always bugs me. The only people that have an inkling of what a cf will be are scum.

he was doing this before SR was lynched

So again, THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT KNOW WHO IS INNO ARE SCUM. The symp knows with certainty and the killers obviously know themselves and have some guesses on the rest of the team. That Kara keeps on about this looks like he's trying too hard to look like town.

Again further distancing from my thinking Cast is Kara's symp.

[Atrahal]

Karatallid, on 05 June 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

Egads, you people are dense.

1 - @Cast - I made it very clear during Day 1 that I thought if Silchas was scum, he'd be a symp, so would come back town. Today's comments were basically an I told you so, but let's not just assume he was a symp.

2 - A no-lynch yesterday would just have created a metric shit ton of WIFOM today, that's true, but in a game like this, where D-Day has potential to be really soon, it's probably for the best that town don't rush into lynches, specially with impending mod-kills. If I had been around when Desra suggested we not lynch because of the mod-kill, I would have agreed and removed my vote.

3 - The people who are jumping on the smallest things are doing town no favours. If you make the thread an unfavourable environment for posting, people aren't going to post. If you jump down someone's throat the moment they make a small inconsequential comment about nothing that just rubs you the wrong way, they're not going to go out of their way to make any sort of case. Instead of focusing in on one person, how about we take some time to look at the thread as a whole.

4 - I am on board with voting out a low-poster today. Skintick or Tiamatha would be my choices. Neither was done anything useful in their measly number of posts that I can see.

5 - Scum love lists, so I must be scum. Let's watch how many people use this as a be all end all reason to vote me out. I put it at 50/50 odds this post gets me voted out.

Pre empting people thinking him scummy for this post. This is a very defensive reaction from someone who has no votes and only Cast is prodding him. Very defensive post.

[Atrahal]

Discussion is now on Kara, from desra and from myself. Who shows up?

Hanas, on 05 June 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 05 June 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

I'm here and thanks to the small amount of posts on thread caught up.
Will be on and off for some time.*








*I cannot care less about what happens on thread, but unfortunately I don't like to be mod-killed and ruin the game so I will post and hope you lynch me or I will get nked.

How would you being modkilled ruin the game?

Thing is, Desra is accusing Kara to be the symp, but Hanas whom I think is the symp is trying to take the conversation away from where it is at.

[Atrahal]

No more discussion of kara.

Hanas, on 05 June 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

Hood, on 05 June 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Hanas, on 05 June 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 05 June 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

I'm here and thanks to the small amount of posts on thread caught up.
Will be on and off for some time.*








*I cannot care less about what happens on thread, but unfortunately I don't like to be mod-killed and ruin the game so I will post and hope you lynch me or I will get nked.

How would you being modkilled ruin the game?

cause he's bringing the cookies and punch, this must be your first game

The cake was a lie. Ever since, I've been hesitant to believe the refreshments actually exist.

[Shadow]

Korlat, on 11 June 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Shadow, on 11 June 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

Firstly, he could be accused of being overly agreeable, and somewhat middle of that road:

Korlat, on 04 June 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Shadow, on 04 June 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

This is a ludicrously bad case.

Sadly everyone's made a pathetic effort to contribute, and thus yet again anyone actually being vocal and trying to play the game becomes a target.

It's awful, I agree, but I don't see better currently. Doesn't mean it's not right anyway, though perhaps for the wrong reasons Really out now.

Heh, this was actually me trying to antagonise you! I'm hurt that not only did you not take the bait, you didn't even realise it was bait

I actually did respond to your post. Here.

Korlat, on 11 June 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Shadow, on 11 June 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

Almost the definition of middle of the road here:

Korlat, on 05 June 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

Ooooh BUUURRRNNN!!


This is a nice little back-and-forth you two have going on, though at the end of it I can't same I'm truly convinced either way. But what I'm getting from Tiamatha's case is essentially the same thing (possible signalling) as why Shadow was being sized up for a lynch on Day 1, only Tiam's substituted Atrahal for Silchas Ruin as the symp. Tiam might use words like 'gestalt case', but it does seem a signalling case at it's very heart. Don't get me wrong, I was willing to place my vote on Shadow for that reason yesterday, so I would not be averse to doing the same today, except it feels like Tiam is trying quite hard to frame this case as something it's not.

I'm going to have to disagree with your interpretation of this as 'middle-of-the-road'. I was pointing out that Tiamathat had made a crappy case and had dressed it up in fine clothes in order to disguise it as something more than it actually was - a familiar case rehashed with a new antagonist - and this made me stop and consider why Tiam was bringing it up. In fact, if you go back during Tiam's reveal, you'll see that I bring it up again - why was Tiam dressing up these cases when they suspected GL of being the killer? Tiam answered well and it led me to believing their reveal.

"I can't say I'm truly convinced either way"

It's very wishy washy. Doesn't like Tiam's case:

"Tiam might use words like 'gestalt case', but it does seem a signalling case at it's very heart"

But would still be happy to go for me:

"Don't get me wrong, I was willing to place my vote on Shadow for that reason yesterday, so I would not be averse to doing the same today"

But doesn't like Tiam again.

"except it feels like Tiam is trying quite hard to frame this case as something it's not."

It just seems like it's hovering on the fence, trying to play both sides. You dismiss the majority of his case, say that he's "trying quite hard to frame this case as something it's not." and then don't really take issue with this at all?

During the reveal, for reference:

Korlat, on 06 June 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

I do have a question for Tiam - your cases yesterday put together Shadow and Atrahal. Do you think that was just the wrong track now or what?

Which is not quite as strong a statement as "why was Tiam dressing up these cases when they suspected GL of being the killer".

Korlat, on 11 June 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Quote

Agreeable, but not really adding anything useful:

Korlat, on 06 June 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

Cast, on 06 June 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

Does anyone else feel like Skintick is trying to piss us off?

And seeing how far they can take it? Yeah, kinda. A little like Khell's 'dumb inno' from a couple games back, only not actually as irritating. Or, on the other hand, seeing that they're prime meat for the lynch, deciding to go the route of 'uninterested townie' in hopes of dissuading the train that way. Or then again, genuinely not paying attention, sigh.

I'm not sure what you're looking for here. I agree it's a possibility, but I'm not certain, and I'm not certain because of such and such reasons.

My point is that it's overly agreeable. You agree it's possible, then list a load of the other possibilities and don't come to any form of conclusion at all on which you actually think is likely. So it's not adding anything, except being agreeable - why post it at all if it only serves that purpose?

Partly this also blurs into a language thing.

I mean:

Korlat, on 07 June 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

I appreciate you taking my suspicions of Cast and seeing where else you can take it, Atrahal. The 'my boss is intownso...' right after Galayn's post is something I missed.

However, I see one immediate problem with you linking Cast and Shadow together, and that's the fact that Cast immediately went after Shadow and voted for them as soon as they got on today.

The language in the first line is just strange. It's like something out of a shitty self-help book about how to be friendly. You make absolutely sure to find something to compliment, even while he's completely misinterpreted/misunderstood you, and while you're shooting down his point in the second line. It's artificially balanced, very non-confrontational, and gives the impression of trying to play both sides, stay in everyone's good books.

Korlat, on 11 June 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Quote

His case on Hanas is also a bit on the easy side. It's the kind of thing I could easily see being someone wanting to look like being a bit more involved, without putting themselves out there too much, and he doesn't push it very vigorously.

Case? What I did with Hanas is pretty much the same you're doing here with my posts. Would you call this a case? I decided to do an analysis of Hanas' posts because something about them pricked me. I was suspicious, yes, and I wanted to see what it was about them that made me so. I then outlined the reasons why when I set out their posts. There was nothing I could place as overly incriminating, though I did feel that I highlighted their style of play and made it something to watch. Only when Tiamatha revealed and set out their beliefs did I become convinced (albeit tragically briefly) that Hanas was indeed a killer.

I'm not sure why you feel it's better to say that it wasn't a case. My point is, if you were going to pick someone to do an easy piece of analysis on to look like a contributor, Hanas is about as easy as it got at that point, because he hadn't done much, as you said at the time. You didn't really follow up your analysis with much conviction. But then, if you didn't think he was scummy, why choose him for the analysis? For someone suspicious of him, you don't push him very hard. Your conclusion:

Korlat, on 06 June 2013 - 01:32 AM, said:

As I said, like an HP mini-me. Same sort of style, but in fewer posts, and a suspicion of Atra-Gamelon which is pushed very lightly, as if almost looking for someone else to leap on and run with it.

The reason I felt this was all worthy of notice is because it's so un-noteworthy. Very middle of the road and nothing for anyone to sink their teeth into - a few posts now and again are hints at efforts toward individual independent thought and action, but never go beyond that hint.

You're wishy washy on Hanas, and wishy washy on Skintick.

And posts like this are just trying way to hard to look helpful:

Korlat, on 06 June 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

Alright, I really have to go again.

Shall I place my vote now, or shall I leave it if there's enough people around to do it later?

He was L-2, with like 30 hours left.

Korlat, on 11 June 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Quote

The other really noticeable thing is the pick up of activity in comparison to how quiet he was early game, which does mirror how scum tend to play, in particular with coasting day one.

I've admired your posting this game, but this is just a silly point to end with. I think I stated early on that I would be quite busy early on and that it was likely to continue over the week. Indeed, I would hardly say my posting numbers have changed drastically day to day. Moreover, with day 1, even when I was around, in between the Atrahal-Kara and yours and Desra's tiffs, I saw little to interject about.

Eh, regardless of whether you say it's gonna be the case at the start or not, it's worth noticing when someone's posting pattern falls into the same one we see commonly with scum.

Of course it's not damning evidence on it's own or something, and of course there are a variety of reasons that this could happen, town or otherwise.

But it is still worth noticing.

And I would say that you had a coasty day one. Though looking back, it's not really just day one you can be accused of coasting. When does your activity really pick up? You make a case on Cast as symp, and other than that, what original contribution do we have?

[Shadow]

Atrahal, on 11 June 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

Korlat, on 05 June 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

Sorry I've been away even longer than I envisaged. Looks like we got lucky with the no kills, though there are way too many variables for why that happened for my liking, though I would say the least likely is that both killers forgot to put in provisionals. One forgetting maaaybe (though again, I feel it's one of the unlikelier scenarios), which means I reckon at least one was affected either by good play from guard/healer, or an abstention, as someone mentioned already.

I should (hopefully) be around quite a bit today.

See this is what puts me thinkng Korlat is more town because he thinks of there being two killers with kills the same as me. Whereas both Kara and Shadow thought of alternating killers first or together.

Meh, just a case of probability really.

Two kills nightly would mean we'd needed to get a lot luckier than one.

We still don't really know though.

[Shadow]

Atrahal, on 11 June 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

Karatallid, on 05 June 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

5 - Scum love lists, so I must be scum. Let's watch how many people use this as a be all end all reason to vote me out. I put it at 50/50 odds this post gets me voted out.

Pre empting people thinking him scummy for this post. This is a very defensive reaction from someone who has no votes and only Cast is prodding him. Very defensive post.

Also not the first time he is accused of this sort of thing. Earlier on he got heat for his switch onto SR (which is odd itself since apparently he thought SR was my symp), when it seemed like he was preparing for an inno CF (in which case, the switch is rather odd, particularly since it's not like he was a late switch iirc).