[Obdigore]

HoosierDaddy, on 18 September 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 18 September 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

Trent Richardson just got traded to Indy!!!

He's a fucking running back and we might have a top 10 pick! It's the line that's the problem not the quality of ball carriers!

Well, Richardson is a very good young back. That said I agree Indy's line needs work, but having an effective RB can open up your passing offense quite well.

This post has been edited by Obdigore: 19 September 2013 - 04:29 AM

[HoosierDaddy]

Obdigore, on 19 September 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on 18 September 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 18 September 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

Trent Richardson just got traded to Indy!!!

He's a fucking running back and we might have a top 10 pick! It's the line that's the problem not the quality of ball carriers!

Well, Richardson is a very good young back. That said I agree Indy's line needs work, but having an effective RB can open up your passing offense quite well.

Running back is not a position of value outside elite, elite backs (like AP), and even given that they need a decent OL. The Colts do not have a decent OL. Bradshaw and Ballard (net year) were sufficient. The pick next year could have been for a position of need. Non-casual Colts fans recognize this is a Pyrrhic trade.

[Obdigore]

HoosierDaddy, on 19 September 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

Obdigore, on 19 September 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on 18 September 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 18 September 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

Trent Richardson just got traded to Indy!!!

He's a fucking running back and we might have a top 10 pick! It's the line that's the problem not the quality of ball carriers!

Well, Richardson is a very good young back. That said I agree Indy's line needs work, but having an effective RB can open up your passing offense quite well.

Running back is not a position of value outside elite, elite backs (like AP), and even given that they need a decent OL. The Colts do not have a decent OL. Bradshaw and Ballard (net year) were sufficient. The pick next year could have been for a position of need. Non-casual Colts fans recognize this is a Pyrrhic trade.

Sure it is. A running back is absolutely a valuable position, even outside of the 'elite' category. That said, Richardson isn't elite, but he is still in the top 10 RBs in the league, and is an upgrade to what Indy has now.

[Tapper]

Vengeance, on 18 September 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

Also is cleveland giving up on the year after 2 games!!!

I guess the Browns are kind of advocating here that they really want Jadeveon Clowney or Teddy Bridgewater for their own pick. Since it will be hard to beat the Jags in the race for bottom place, trading out your one point-scorer makes a perverted kind of sense.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 19 September 2013 - 06:39 AM

[Tattersail_]

Okay someone explain to me what is happening here. If you could relate to football that would be great but if not I am all ears. From what I am gathering, is any team able to grab any player at any time as long as their pick is higher than other teams? So could a team just grab Aaron Rodgers if he was their number one pick? How does this work. It's confusing to hell. How many players are allowed to play for a team. What players are set in stone and what players can be grabbed by another team? How does the whole system work. Include PUP, waiver and whatever else into the response if you can.

In UK a team has a squad of 25 players. In each team there can be an unlimited number of players under 21. In the squad of 25 you have to have at least 5 players that are homegrown and have played at your club for a certain amount of time. If someone wanted a clubs best player then they would have to pay £ for him. The better the player the more money he will go for. If he is young and has a lot of years on his contract he will go for quite a lot of money. No one can just come in and take a player, unless he is out of contract.

[King Lear]

Slow Ben, on 18 September 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

I don't know, there's no way I can look up all the attempted waiver claims and see what happened. When you put in the claim did it say "waiver pending" on your team page?

Maybe?
Booooooo

[Obdigore]

Ganoes Paran, on 19 September 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

Okay someone explain to me what is happening here. If you could relate to football that would be great but if not I am all ears. From what I am gathering, is any team able to grab any player at any time as long as their pick is higher than other teams? So could a team just grab Aaron Rodgers if he was their number one pick? How does this work. It's confusing to hell. How many players are allowed to play for a team. What players are set in stone and what players can be grabbed by another team? How does the whole system work. Include PUP, waiver and whatever else into the response if you can.

In UK a team has a squad of 25 players. In each team there can be an unlimited number of players under 21. In the squad of 25 you have to have at least 5 players that are homegrown and have played at your club for a certain amount of time. If someone wanted a clubs best player then they would have to pay £ for him. The better the player the more money he will go for. If he is young and has a lot of years on his contract he will go for quite a lot of money. No one can just come in and take a player, unless he is out of contract.

So I had this big long thing written up and when putting in my sources I closed it. So lets do this hard and fast.

The Cleveland Browns have traded Trent Richardson to the Indianapolis Colts for a round 1 draft pick next year. This means the Colts assume Richardson's contract and services, and in return the Browns get another pick from the college system next year.

NFL rosters are 53 players, 45 of which are eligible to play and 8 are considered a 'practice squad'.

NFL waivers are done when a team decides to 'cut' a player, that player is then in waivers for 24 hours, and any team in the league can put in a waiver claim saying they want them at their current contract. The team with the lowest winning percentage is awarded the waiver and they get that player. If no team says they want the player, the player then becomes an 'unrestricted free agent' and is free to sign with any team at any pay/contract level.

http://en.wikipedia....able_to_Perform

The PUP list is essentially a way of saying 'this guy is hurt but we don't want to cut him' so they can keep him on the pup list until he is healthy, then they have to cut someone else from their roster to bring that player off the pup list. PUP restrictions allow you to participate in meetings/planning, workout and everything else with the team, except actually practice or play games.

I'm not sure why you are claiming someone 'took' Richardson. The Browns traded him on purpose to the Colts, both to tank their season to get a better draft pick next year, and because the Colts gave up a round 1 pick next year for him. This will allow the new management in Cleveland to draft more young players to fit their needs as they try to rebuild the team. No team can come in and 'take' a player off the 53 man roster of any other team. They can offer trades for them, or they can wait for them to hit waivers or become free agents in the off-season.

The shocking thing about it is that it is pretty early for a team to 'give up' on the season. Richardson isn't an elite back, but he is pretty good, and he was probably the best offensive player on Cleveland's roster, so it was odd to see that trade.

[Tattersail_]

Obdigore, on 19 September 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

Ganoes Paran, on 19 September 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

Okay someone explain to me what is happening here. If you could relate to football that would be great but if not I am all ears. From what I am gathering, is any team able to grab any player at any time as long as their pick is higher than other teams? So could a team just grab Aaron Rodgers if he was their number one pick? How does this work. It's confusing to hell. How many players are allowed to play for a team. What players are set in stone and what players can be grabbed by another team? How does the whole system work. Include PUP, waiver and whatever else into the response if you can.

In UK a team has a squad of 25 players. In each team there can be an unlimited number of players under 21. In the squad of 25 you have to have at least 5 players that are homegrown and have played at your club for a certain amount of time. If someone wanted a clubs best player then they would have to pay £ for him. The better the player the more money he will go for. If he is young and has a lot of years on his contract he will go for quite a lot of money. No one can just come in and take a player, unless he is out of contract.

So I had this big long thing written up and when putting in my sources I closed it. So lets do this hard and fast.

The Cleveland Browns have traded Trent Richardson to the Indianapolis Colts for a round 1 draft pick next year. This means the Colts assume Richardson's contract and services, and in return the Browns get another pick from the college system next year.

NFL rosters are 53 players, 45 of which are eligible to play and 8 are considered a 'practice squad'.

NFL waivers are done when a team decides to 'cut' a player, that player is then in waivers for 24 hours, and any team in the league can put in a waiver claim saying they want them at their current contract. The team with the lowest winning percentage is awarded the waiver and they get that player. If no team says they want the player, the player then becomes an 'unrestricted free agent' and is free to sign with any team at any pay/contract level.

http://en.wikipedia....able_to_Perform

The PUP list is essentially a way of saying 'this guy is hurt but we don't want to cut him' so they can keep him on the pup list until he is healthy, then they have to cut someone else from their roster to bring that player off the pup list. PUP restrictions allow you to participate in meetings/planning, workout and everything else with the team, except actually practice or play games.

I'm not sure why you are claiming someone 'took' Richardson. The Browns traded him on purpose to the Colts, both to tank their season to get a better draft pick next year, and because the Colts gave up a round 1 pick next year for him. This will allow the new management in Cleveland to draft more young players to fit their needs as they try to rebuild the team. No team can come in and 'take' a player off the 53 man roster of any other team. They can offer trades for them, or they can wait for them to hit waivers or become free agents in the off-season.

The shocking thing about it is that it is pretty early for a team to 'give up' on the season. Richardson isn't an elite back, but he is pretty good, and he was probably the best offensive player on Cleveland's roster, so it was odd to see that trade.

What if another team offload a star to gain a first round pick next year? Does that mean Cleveland get pushed back into #2 spot?

Furthermore, say you have 53 players this year and they are all decent (you have just won the superbowl or got to the final) then why would you need to add to that squad? Are there cases where a team just sticks with what they have? I know some players may retire but that is not going to happen every year.

[Obdigore]

Ganoes Paran, on 19 September 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

Obdigore, on 19 September 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

Ganoes Paran, on 19 September 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

Okay someone explain to me what is happening here. If you could relate to football that would be great but if not I am all ears. From what I am gathering, is any team able to grab any player at any time as long as their pick is higher than other teams? So could a team just grab Aaron Rodgers if he was their number one pick? How does this work. It's confusing to hell. How many players are allowed to play for a team. What players are set in stone and what players can be grabbed by another team? How does the whole system work. Include PUP, waiver and whatever else into the response if you can.

In UK a team has a squad of 25 players. In each team there can be an unlimited number of players under 21. In the squad of 25 you have to have at least 5 players that are homegrown and have played at your club for a certain amount of time. If someone wanted a clubs best player then they would have to pay £ for him. The better the player the more money he will go for. If he is young and has a lot of years on his contract he will go for quite a lot of money. No one can just come in and take a player, unless he is out of contract.

So I had this big long thing written up and when putting in my sources I closed it. So lets do this hard and fast.

The Cleveland Browns have traded Trent Richardson to the Indianapolis Colts for a round 1 draft pick next year. This means the Colts assume Richardson's contract and services, and in return the Browns get another pick from the college system next year.

NFL rosters are 53 players, 45 of which are eligible to play and 8 are considered a 'practice squad'.

NFL waivers are done when a team decides to 'cut' a player, that player is then in waivers for 24 hours, and any team in the league can put in a waiver claim saying they want them at their current contract. The team with the lowest winning percentage is awarded the waiver and they get that player. If no team says they want the player, the player then becomes an 'unrestricted free agent' and is free to sign with any team at any pay/contract level.

http://en.wikipedia....able_to_Perform

The PUP list is essentially a way of saying 'this guy is hurt but we don't want to cut him' so they can keep him on the pup list until he is healthy, then they have to cut someone else from their roster to bring that player off the pup list. PUP restrictions allow you to participate in meetings/planning, workout and everything else with the team, except actually practice or play games.

I'm not sure why you are claiming someone 'took' Richardson. The Browns traded him on purpose to the Colts, both to tank their season to get a better draft pick next year, and because the Colts gave up a round 1 pick next year for him. This will allow the new management in Cleveland to draft more young players to fit their needs as they try to rebuild the team. No team can come in and 'take' a player off the 53 man roster of any other team. They can offer trades for them, or they can wait for them to hit waivers or become free agents in the off-season.

The shocking thing about it is that it is pretty early for a team to 'give up' on the season. Richardson isn't an elite back, but he is pretty good, and he was probably the best offensive player on Cleveland's roster, so it was odd to see that trade.

What if another team offload a star to gain a first round pick next year? Does that mean Cleveland get pushed back into #2 spot?

Furthermore, say you have 53 players this year and they are all decent (you have just won the superbowl or got to the final) then why would you need to add to that squad? Are there cases where a team just sticks with what they have? I know some players may retire but that is not going to happen every year.

Well, since Cleveland gets Indy's first round pick (not necessarily first pick), they get their pick and wherever Indy's pick ends up, it probably won't be the first pick since Indy isn't a 2-14 team, but we will see.

Because players contracts end and they might go somewhere that can offer them more money? There is a salary cap on how much a team can pay each year so that you can't have a team of superstars unless they all agree to get payed well below what they could make on other teams.

There is never a team that 'just sticks with what they have' because elite players do like getting payed since your shelf life in the NFL is 5-15 seasons, you need to make all your money during that time, and you are trading 20+ years off your live (in the damage you take playing the game) for a ton of money.

[Tattersail_]

Obdigore, on 19 September 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

Ganoes Paran, on 19 September 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

Obdigore, on 19 September 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

Ganoes Paran, on 19 September 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

Okay someone explain to me what is happening here. If you could relate to football that would be great but if not I am all ears. From what I am gathering, is any team able to grab any player at any time as long as their pick is higher than other teams? So could a team just grab Aaron Rodgers if he was their number one pick? How does this work. It's confusing to hell. How many players are allowed to play for a team. What players are set in stone and what players can be grabbed by another team? How does the whole system work. Include PUP, waiver and whatever else into the response if you can.

In UK a team has a squad of 25 players. In each team there can be an unlimited number of players under 21. In the squad of 25 you have to have at least 5 players that are homegrown and have played at your club for a certain amount of time. If someone wanted a clubs best player then they would have to pay £ for him. The better the player the more money he will go for. If he is young and has a lot of years on his contract he will go for quite a lot of money. No one can just come in and take a player, unless he is out of contract.

So I had this big long thing written up and when putting in my sources I closed it. So lets do this hard and fast.

The Cleveland Browns have traded Trent Richardson to the Indianapolis Colts for a round 1 draft pick next year. This means the Colts assume Richardson's contract and services, and in return the Browns get another pick from the college system next year.

NFL rosters are 53 players, 45 of which are eligible to play and 8 are considered a 'practice squad'.

NFL waivers are done when a team decides to 'cut' a player, that player is then in waivers for 24 hours, and any team in the league can put in a waiver claim saying they want them at their current contract. The team with the lowest winning percentage is awarded the waiver and they get that player. If no team says they want the player, the player then becomes an 'unrestricted free agent' and is free to sign with any team at any pay/contract level.

http://en.wikipedia....able_to_Perform

The PUP list is essentially a way of saying 'this guy is hurt but we don't want to cut him' so they can keep him on the pup list until he is healthy, then they have to cut someone else from their roster to bring that player off the pup list. PUP restrictions allow you to participate in meetings/planning, workout and everything else with the team, except actually practice or play games.

I'm not sure why you are claiming someone 'took' Richardson. The Browns traded him on purpose to the Colts, both to tank their season to get a better draft pick next year, and because the Colts gave up a round 1 pick next year for him. This will allow the new management in Cleveland to draft more young players to fit their needs as they try to rebuild the team. No team can come in and 'take' a player off the 53 man roster of any other team. They can offer trades for them, or they can wait for them to hit waivers or become free agents in the off-season.

The shocking thing about it is that it is pretty early for a team to 'give up' on the season. Richardson isn't an elite back, but he is pretty good, and he was probably the best offensive player on Cleveland's roster, so it was odd to see that trade.

What if another team offload a star to gain a first round pick next year? Does that mean Cleveland get pushed back into #2 spot?

Furthermore, say you have 53 players this year and they are all decent (you have just won the superbowl or got to the final) then why would you need to add to that squad? Are there cases where a team just sticks with what they have? I know some players may retire but that is not going to happen every year.

Well, since Cleveland gets Indy's first round pick (not necessarily first pick), they get their pick and wherever Indy's pick ends up, it probably won't be the first pick since Indy isn't a 2-14 team, but we will see.

Because players contracts end and they might go somewhere that can offer them more money? There is a salary cap on how much a team can pay each year so that you can't have a team of superstars unless they all agree to get payed well below what they could make on other teams.

There is never a team that 'just sticks with what they have' because elite players do like getting payed since your shelf life in the NFL is 5-15 seasons, you need to make all your money during that time, and you are trading 20+ years off your live (in the damage you take playing the game) for a ton of money.

Jerry Maguire springs to mind. So if Cleveland Browns sold another of their better players to some other team they could get 3 first round picks?

Do you have a team that you support Obdi? If so, who would you like to see become a player at that team?

This is where I fail, I do not watch the games, I hardly know of the "higher than average" players, the Superstars are easy to discover, they are must have picks because the teams that they are playing for are paying the money for them to be there and maybe sacrificing other positions to have that player in their squad. That is why my first round pick was bad compared to the rest. I understand a lot more talking to you about this Obdi.

[Tapper]

I think you see Fantasy Football and NFL a bit muddled, Tatts

Basically, NFL teams, unlike soccer teams, don't have youth academies.
Instead, the players advance from the school system. A player usually starts playing football in high school teams. When he graduate from High School and he is good enough, the college schools try and recruit the best of the crop who then play as amateurs for the college (There's a huge scandal about Oklahoma's recruitment currently, and the Texas A&M quarterback Manziel faced a lot of flak for selling autographs, which is seen as income generated by playing football and therefore not amateur-worthy).

When a player deems himself ready (but only after advancing a certain amount of years/classes/whatever), he can decide to make himself draft-eligible, which means that he wants to pursue a pro-career. The draft is a once-a-year event that sees all NFL teams (theoretically) pick 7 players in 7 rounds, each round starting with the worst team and ending with the year's Super Bowl winner.
So the year's worst team has the best choice, and the year's best team will get a 'lesser'/more risky player.

It is the only real youth-intake (although teams can sign players who weren't drafted - but these are usually not the top talents... Tony Romo, the Dallas Cowboys QB, is an undrafted player, for example).

Every once in a while, a team can get an 'extra' pick from the league if they lost a lot more players due to contract expiration than they got in free agency (and sometimes, the League takes picks as penalties for teams, as happened to New Orleans), but with 32 teams and 7 picks each, theres's an intake.
There's also a set of rules of how contracts for newly selected players must look, AND the league sets salary limits each year, which teams can not go over.

However, the above only goes for new NFL players. Players who already had a contract can only leave teams when their contract runs out, or when their current team trades them to a new team - and the new team will take over the exact contract obligations and not a penny more.

This is all intended to make the NFL as fair as possible, to prevent situations like in the Premier League, where Manchester City has five times the salary scale and the spending power of Southampton and thus will beat Southampton 9 times out of 10.

It also allows team owners to run their teams as profitable businesses, where in soccer the trend is for teams to go in debt/spend all they get in to get higher up the table.

It also means that identifying player potential and paying the right players the right amount of money becomes super important as the only way to do better is to have a guy contracted whose value is above what you pay him: if you succeed in that, you can have more quality players in your team than if you overpay several players, as to compensate for them, you need to get smaller contracts and that usually means worse players. The only time teams will want to overpay is if the player fills in an essential need in your team (like quarterbacks).


Fantasy Football simulates the draft and player trading partly. We pick in a top-to-bottom order and then do a snake draft to not give too much of an advantage to the team that picks first (otherwise, Obdi would not only get the player he judges best, but each time the player he deems the best for his roster from all remaining players - in this way, he gets the best and then has to wait until everyone else has their second-best choice before he gets his second... so technically he gets the nr 1 and nr 24 player, instead of the nr 1 and the nr 13 player, which is a big difference).

[Tapper]

Quote

AFurthermore, say you have 53 players this year and they are all decent (you have just won the superbowl or got to the final) then why would you need to add to that squad? Are there cases where a team just sticks with what they have? I know some players may retire but that is not going to happen every year.

The salary cap plays a big role in this.
The average contract in the NFL works with growth. A contract worth 25 million over 5 years is often structured not as 5 million a year, but:

1 mln year 1,
2 mln year 2
3 mln year 3
5.5 mln year 4
7.5 mln year 5

and bonuses up to 6 mln in total for attending camps, playing X matches per season, as a signing bonus and/or other incentives.
Part of the salary is also offered as 'guaranteed pay' that stands even if the team breaks off the contract, in the above case, perhaps a million of the salary each year (so the team has no reason to cut this guy year 1, and it is unlikely they get an equal player for less pay in year 2-3 especially if they still need to pay this guy 1 mln.

This way, the player has a more or less guaranteed future in the game for at least the first 3 years and will remain motivated to perform (as he will make more money later). The guaranteed money is a lure for him to sign even if he thinks he will never reach year 5 of the contract. The team will be able to cut a player (break off his contract) if they deem him unworthy of the future money anymore, taking only the guaranteed money as a loss.

The structure above is also a critical part in underpaying the player as year 1 + 2 + 3 you pay him way less than your valuation on paper (which is 3/5th of 25 mln whereas you pay him only 6 + bonuses).

Now, there's also a downside.
In the above case, in year 3 or 4 the team will be looking at massive amounts of money for a player with several years of wear and tear.
Even if he is deemed worthy of continuing his contract, they still have to deal with the salary cap and this guy has a salary figure that is such that it reduces the chance to keep other top players around. So, sometimes they will still try and replace him even if he is worth the money. Perhaps his replacement will even be a much worse player, but one who is cheaper. Another option is to meet with the player to work out a different type of contract (usually a more spread out salary, part of the salary turned into a bonus, or a longer term deal with more guaranteed money).

[Tattersail_]

Now you are just showing off!

That is impressive knowledge Tapper.

edit, but it does explain things a lot better than I could have hoped.

This post has been edited by Ganoes Paran: 19 September 2013 - 02:31 PM

[twelve]

FUCK!!!!
FUCK!!!!
FUCK!!!!

Damn you Indy and Damn you Cleveland. Just when I thought things were going my way a little bit you had to go and bring in Richardson and totally fuck my Bradshaw good luck.

DAMN!!!!!!!!

[Tapper]

Mr. J. Harbaugh, tell your front office to trade away several of your 7th round draft picks for a competent receiver/TE or two.

Signed,

Colin Kaepernick fantasy owner.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 23 September 2013 - 07:20 AM

[HoosierDaddy]

Tapper, on 23 September 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

Mr. J. Harbaugh, tell your front office to trade away several of your 7th round draft picks for a competent receiver/TE or two.

Signed,

Colin Kaepernick fantasy owner.

I don't even care that my fantasy team is terrible and my starting RBs are cursed. Indy pulled SF's pants down and whipped 'em good.

[Obdigore]

HoosierDaddy, on 23 September 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

Tapper, on 23 September 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

Mr. J. Harbaugh, tell your front office to trade away several of your 7th round draft picks for a competent receiver/TE or two.

Signed,

Colin Kaepernick fantasy owner.

I don't even care that my fantasy team is terrible and my starting RBs are cursed. Indy pulled SF's pants down and whipped 'em good.

That they did, it was pretty hilarious. I wish SF would have continued Rushing in the second half though. Gore was doing pretty well until they just stopped running the ball. They were only down a field goal at halftime, that decision just boggled my mind.

[Tattersail_]

My defense need to get 7 points for me to beat zoomzoom, surely they can do that?

[Obdigore]

Ganoes Paran, on 23 September 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

My defense need to get 7 points for me to beat zoomzoom, surely they can do that?

Its against the Raiders, so I would expect so. Its still a toss-up at this point though, because it is possible they wont. Maybe the raiders will score 30 and not turn the ball over. After this week it would be a fitting finish.

[Vengeance]

twelve, on 19 September 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

FUCK!!!!
FUCK!!!!
FUCK!!!!

Damn you Indy and Damn you Cleveland. Just when I thought things were going my way a little bit you had to go and bring in Richardson and totally fuck my Bradshaw good luck.

DAMN!!!!!!!!

Then you bench Bradshaw and he goes off against SF...


HAHAHAHAHA


On another note I so want manning to throw 2 TD to Welker...