[Kilava]

For that matter, you could've hammered just then if you think there's a particular reason to?

[Thyrllan]

I love lamp.<div><br></div><div><br></div><div> Remove Vote</div><div><br></div><div>Vote Thyrllan</div><div><br></div><div></div>

This post has been edited by Thyrllan: 14 May 2013 - 11:36 PM

[Mockra]

Kilava, on 14 May 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

For that matter, you could've hammered just then if you think there's a particular reason to?

Well first of all, Thyr just self hammered, but more relevantly, I doubt he's our killer. Seems more like a townie who was caught being stupid and tried to overcompensate. There are others who seem to be adept at shifting interest where they want it, and that I associate with scum more than stupidity.

[Kilava]

Mockra, on 14 May 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

Kilava, on 14 May 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

For that matter, you could've hammered just then if you think there's a particular reason to?

Well first of all, Thyr just self hammered, but more relevantly, I doubt he's our killer. Seems more like a townie who was caught being stupid and tried to overcompensate. There are others who seem to be adept at shifting interest where they want it, and that I associate with scum more than stupidity.

Hmm, why do you think there was much reason for me to hammer then?

I've not been the strongest proponent of the lynch either.

Also would've been nice to hear from some of the people who haven't been around/chipped in much.

[Mockra]

What really tickled my interest was the way you voted Kalse and Kalse voted you. Seems like an abrupt attempt at distancing. However, both of you were a little goofy about it (particulary Kalse) as if it was Day 1 shenanigans. Makes me wonder you know.

[Kilava]

Mockra, on 14 May 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

What really tickled my interest was the way you voted Kalse and Kalse voted you. Seems like an abrupt attempt at distancing. However, both of you were a little goofy about it (particulary Kalse) as if it was Day 1 shenanigans. Makes me wonder you know.

My vote on Kalse is perfectly serious. At this point in time I think he's the most likely scum. He perfectly fits the profile of a killer trying to remain under the radar, to the extent of actively avoiding engaging in discussion.

Kalses vote on me seemed OMGUS, and his justification verges on making no sense.

[Mockra]

Kilava, on 14 May 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

Mockra, on 14 May 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

Kilava, on 14 May 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

For that matter, you could've hammered just then if you think there's a particular reason to?

Well first of all, Thyr just self hammered, but more relevantly, I doubt he's our killer. Seems more like a townie who was caught being stupid and tried to overcompensate. There are others who seem to be adept at shifting interest where they want it, and that I associate with scum more than stupidity.

Hmm, why do you think there was much reason for me to hammer then?

I've not been the strongest proponent of the lynch either.

Also would've been nice to hear from some of the people who haven't been around/chipped in much.

It's all about commitment. I don't get the impression you would have ever hammered. You are too busy proposing all different directions of thought, asking people's opinions and rattling Thyr's chains on the side. Guiding the thread.

I've come to find that the smooth player is one with something to hide, and that how people act on Day 1 is telling given the vulnerability of no one knowing who each other are and not wanting to be the victim of a hit and run lynch.

I guess the best way to sum it up is you are acting the townie role too well, and that my friend is truly scummy.

[Mockra]

Kilava, on 14 May 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

Mockra, on 14 May 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

What really tickled my interest was the way you voted Kalse and Kalse voted you. Seems like an abrupt attempt at distancing. However, both of you were a little goofy about it (particulary Kalse) as if it was Day 1 shenanigans. Makes me wonder you know.

My vote on Kalse is perfectly serious. At this point in time I think he's the most likely scum. He perfectly fits the profile of a killer trying to remain under the radar, to the extent of actively avoiding engaging in discussion.

Kalses vote on me seemed OMGUS, and his justification verges on making no sense.

For someone so serious about their vote, you've done little to push it. Throwing out other cases, ideas, etc, are great ways to contribute, usually at the expense of a successful lynch of your prime suspect. Harassing Thyr throughout the day dug his grave, but very little pressure was thrown on Kalse. And my thoughts with Kalse was that he was sympish, making you the master and making it interesting how you voted for him. You really think he is the killer? (rhetorical question btw)

[Kilava]

Mockra, on 14 May 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:

Kilava, on 14 May 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

Mockra, on 14 May 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

Kilava, on 14 May 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

For that matter, you could've hammered just then if you think there's a particular reason to?

Well first of all, Thyr just self hammered, but more relevantly, I doubt he's our killer. Seems more like a townie who was caught being stupid and tried to overcompensate. There are others who seem to be adept at shifting interest where they want it, and that I associate with scum more than stupidity.

Hmm, why do you think there was much reason for me to hammer then?

I've not been the strongest proponent of the lynch either.

Also would've been nice to hear from some of the people who haven't been around/chipped in much.

It's all about commitment. I don't get the impression you would have ever hammered. You are too busy proposing all different directions of thought, asking people's opinions and rattling Thyr's chains on the side. Guiding the thread.

I've come to find that the smooth player is one with something to hide, and that how people act on Day 1 is telling given the vulnerability of no one knowing who each other are and not wanting to be the victim of a hit and run lynch.

I guess the best way to sum it up is you are acting the townie role too well, and that my friend is truly scummy.

I definitely would've voted to get the lynch. If I wanted to avoid the hammer, why make it obvious enough that I'm on thread? Thyr lynch has been inevitable for a while, why would I care about hammering?
Smooth player cases are, as ever, stupid. What, I'm not playing scummy enough or something? Makes sense. What can I do to not play smoothly? Do something scummy? Bah.

Sorry for posting analysis and trying to provoke discussion. What a thing to base an accusation on. As for guiding the thread, you'll notice that it's been dominated by Thyr from pretty much the outset, and that wasn't my case, so I'm not doing the best job am I. This is just yet another vague accusation that tends to get leveled towards players who actually get involved.

[Mockra]

Actually it was mostly about you and Trake at the outset.

[Kilava]

Mockra, on 14 May 2013 - 11:50 PM, said:

Kilava, on 14 May 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

Mockra, on 14 May 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

What really tickled my interest was the way you voted Kalse and Kalse voted you. Seems like an abrupt attempt at distancing. However, both of you were a little goofy about it (particulary Kalse) as if it was Day 1 shenanigans. Makes me wonder you know.

My vote on Kalse is perfectly serious. At this point in time I think he's the most likely scum. He perfectly fits the profile of a killer trying to remain under the radar, to the extent of actively avoiding engaging in discussion.

Kalses vote on me seemed OMGUS, and his justification verges on making no sense.

For someone so serious about their vote, you've done little to push it. Throwing out other cases, ideas, etc, are great ways to contribute, usually at the expense of a successful lynch of your prime suspect. Harassing Thyr throughout the day dug his grave, but very little pressure was thrown on Kalse. And my thoughts with Kalse was that he was sympish, making you the master and making it interesting how you voted for him. You really think he is the killer? (rhetorical question btw)

Well, let's take a look at the thread shall we?

Post 117, I make my initial vote on Kalse for coasting.
Post 131, he responds.
My next post (140), I push more, responding to him. Same for 141 and 142.
147 I respond to you about why I'm voting Kalse.
149, I mention that Kalse (also Ruse) voting for the lynch with so long left seems over eager.
157, I expand on my vote, pointing out his lack of content, coasting, only actually posting content when pushed, and then laying a coasting vote.

There is only so much you can do when you have made your case and the person you are building a case on is not putting anything new on thread to actually analyse.

Other than putting his vote back onto me when someone else voted me, he did nothing else.

Nonetheless, posts 162 and 163, I try and draw him more into the discussion to get more info. To no avail.

At this point, what am I meant to do? Kalse wasn't posting. Should I just post "Btw, Kalse is still scummy as hell" every second post or something?

And I still did mention it when it was relevant. 229 for example. Or 230, pointing out the oddness of his voting me for deflecting instead of the person I was defelcting from, and again trying to prompt a response from him. Or 238, mentioning the impact of him and Ruse on the Thyr train. Or 249, talking about players keeping their heads down. or 251, comparing him and Monoks play.

Are you actually basing your accusations on anything, or just bringing out the same "greatest hits" that get pulled out constantly?

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 1. 1 hour remaining.

14 players still alive: Anthras, Denul, Eldat Pressen, Kalse, Kilava, Mockra, Monok Ochem, Pallid, Serc, Spite, Ruse, Ryadd Eleis, Thyrllan, Trake

8 votes to lynch, 7 to go to night. 

8 votes Thyrllan: Trake, Pallid, Spite, Ruse, Serc, Ryadd Eleis, Monok Ochem, Thyrllan
1 vote Kalse: Kilava 
2 votes Kilava: Eldat Pressen, Kalse, Mockra

Players not voted: Anthras, Denul

Thyrllan has been lynched. He was town and Khellendros.

Serc has been killed. He was town and Messremb.

It is now Day 2. 36 hours remaining.

12 players still alive: Anthras, Denul, Eldat Pressen, Kalse, Kilava, Mockra, Monok Ochem, Pallid, Spite, Ruse, Ryadd Eleis, Trake

7 votes to lynch, 6 to go to night. 

Players not voted: Anthras, Denul, Eldat Pressen, Kalse, Kilava, Mockra, Monok Ochem, Pallid, Spite, Ruse, Ryadd Eleis, Trake

[Kilava]

Damn, Thyr was Khell?

Khell, you suck and you're a jerk.

[Kilava]

Otoh, Thyr being Khell totally explains his playing like someone who doesn't understand the game

[Mockra]

Welcome to mafia Messremb.

[Kilava]

Mockra, on 14 May 2013 - 11:50 PM, said:

For someone so serious about their vote, you've done little to push it. Throwing out other cases, ideas, etc, are great ways to contribute, usually at the expense of a successful lynch of your prime suspect. Harassing Thyr throughout the day dug his grave, but very little pressure was thrown on Kalse. And my thoughts with Kalse was that he was sympish, making you the master and making it interesting how you voted for him. You really think he is the killer? (rhetorical question btw)

Also, are you saying that I was harassing Thyr? I pointed out the mechanics of the game. That is not harassment, and he dug his own grave by excessively acting the noob.

As for Kalse being a symp, I know you've had a boner for that idea since he joke voted me at the start, but he plays far more like a killer. Laying low and interacting as little as possible with the thread are simply not sympish traits.

[Kilava]

Vote Kalse

Same reasons as yesterday.

[Mockra]

Let's take a different tack: Killers need to remain alive as long as possible to win the game. To do so, more often than not, they will take the safest route to victory, which means avoiding getting lynched.

Typically there are two types of player that are near impossible to get enough consensus on to vote off the island:

1) The super townie - face it, most people are lazy and if there are good cases they don't have to make, they slide with it. And if someone is doing all the thinking and legwork, that person gets a free pass. Moreover, when played correctly, it is nigh impossible to lynch a helpful, reasonable, calm player.

2) The dirty lowposter - with nothing to build a case on, there is no case. And people don't want to waste time on someone not making the effort or not providing enough material to build conviction in the voting body.

Now, I am still reading through the thread again, but I have noticed that you take on Trake early on (nice position with Trake being the irritating, irrational one and you filling his yang with your yin). Moreover, you vote for the clown, which is nice and scummy given that Trake is easily day 1 lynchable, Grade A meat. When has a noisy ass like Trake ever been scum (rarely, if you wish me to answer my own rhetoricals). Also, you really like the word "strawmanning" which is kind of funny since combating Trake gives you a good-guy status in the eyes of the thread, your own personal whipping boy, so to speak.

You prod Kalse with a vote, eventually build a case on him (also very difficult given he fits the type 2 form of scummy play), and just hang out, sitting on the vote. That's when things start to close up on Thyr, and you join the prodding.

The other thing that really gets me is your love of summaries. I believe you've done more than two so far. What was it that was said about scum and lists? Again, who wants to lynch the helpful townie who saves everyone from reading through the thread over and over. Plus, it makes you look meticulous and thoughtful.

In summary, one of the best places for a killer is guiding the thread, thinking for people, looking objective, and playing at suspicion when you know perfectly well who are the bad guys are.

And as for killing your symp, Kalse, you wouldn't be the first to throw one under the bus if they are causing more harm than good.

[Mockra]

Vote Kilava

neck and neck with Kalse. Nailbitter.

[Ryadd Eleis]

Kilava said:

1368576910[/url]' post='1055122']Damn, Thyr was Khell?
Khell, you suck and you're a jerk.

Actually he doesn't and he isn't. He's pretty good. And he's especially good at surviving. So why didn't he just own up to it and reveal the lie? Riding it all the way serves town zero good. None at all. So either he wanted to fuck over his team intentionally or he really is the symp.

Which makes me want to pressure our silky smooth rug. 'Cause she started throwing up lots of verbosity right after this:

Thyrllan said:

1368562474[/url]' post='1055057']

Trake said:

1368562065[/url]' post='1055047']

Kilava said:

1368561738[/url]' post='1055039']

Spite said:

1368560761[/url]' post='1055026']I can't make up my mind if thyr is screwing with us or not.

I sort of hope he is. One as it means more chance of hitting scum, two because it'd feel less mean.

I just can't believe that someone who has been on the forum for as long as everyone who is playing this game would be could be that newbish. Seems to thought out and methodical of a process to be real.

Ha ha ha the only thought out thing I have managed to do so far is my case! I do think at least the symp bit is pretty good and worth following up.

I think that that is where Kilava had an 'oh shit' moment and realized that Thyr really was the symp.

Vote Kilava