[Khellendros]

twelve, on 18 June 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 June 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

Galactic Council, on 18 June 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

@IH,

Yeah, you're right. I guess if I'm establishing that as a rule then I should just keep the rule. I'll still wait for Twelve's comment before finalizing my decision.

Thanks for the input.

I'm vaguely annoyed by twelve having his whole combat re-rolled (sorry twelve, nothing against you or your play). I know I'm saying this after the fact now, and I quite probably don't fully understand everything that's been talked about, but it seems to me you could follow an initially-established rule or you could do what's most sensible.

Sorry, I know I'm nitpicking. My point is, essentially, that in this case it seemed to me like the more sensible thing would have been to do what IH suggested.

Yeah, I was all for just taking up where things went wonky as well but CF did state pregame/or combat can't remember which that if there were any major errors that he would start from scratch. The battle still came down to having to hit with one of my cannons so it sorta ended up like just a reroll of the cannons anyway.

Yeah, tell you what. Re-roll my combat until I have my interceptor back and I will not raise the issue again

This post has been edited by Khellendros: 18 June 2013 - 03:10 PM

[Gnaw]

Khellendros, on 18 June 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Yeah, tell you what. Let me have my interceptor back and I will not raise the issue again

Why do I suspect that if Tapper put in a provisional ”turn 1 move cruiser and interceptor to CF's warp portal hex", you'd be a very happy camper?

[twelve]

Upkeep is done barring any discovery tile possible changes.

Speaking of which, CF what Discovery tile did I draw or do you have to wait for SS to tell you if he grabs his first before you tell me mine?

[Tattersail_]

In a game or so when everyone has encountered different positions and moves this game will be epic! Right now is still a learning curve for most.

[Tattersail_]

Gnaw, on 18 June 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 June 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Yeah, tell you what. Let me have my interceptor back and I will not raise the issue again

Why do I suspect that if Tapper put in a provisional "turn 1 move cruiser and interceptor to CF's warp portal hex", you'd be a very happy camper?

I think he may buy anti matter cannons to be honest to plop on his interceptors

[Tapper]

Ganoes Paran, on 18 June 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Gnaw, on 18 June 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 June 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Yeah, tell you what. Let me have my interceptor back and I will not raise the issue again

Why do I suspect that if Tapper put in a provisional "turn 1 move cruiser and interceptor to CF's warp portal hex", you'd be a very happy camper?

I think he may buy anti matter cannons to be honest to plop on his interceptors

* enigmatic smile *

[Gnaw]

Ganoes Paran, on 18 June 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Gnaw, on 18 June 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 June 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Yeah, tell you what. Let me have my interceptor back and I will not raise the issue again

Why do I suspect that if Tapper put in a provisional "turn 1 move cruiser and interceptor to CF's warp portal hex", you'd be a very happy camper?

I think he may buy anti matter cannons to be honest to plop on his interceptors

Eh. That's one of the things I'm considering.
Still waiting on the tech draw so my anguish can really begin.

[Tattersail_]

Gnaw, on 18 June 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Ganoes Paran, on 18 June 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Gnaw, on 18 June 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 June 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Yeah, tell you what. Let me have my interceptor back and I will not raise the issue again

Why do I suspect that if Tapper put in a provisional "turn 1 move cruiser and interceptor to CF's warp portal hex", you'd be a very happy camper?

I think he may buy anti matter cannons to be honest to plop on his interceptors

Eh. That's one of the things I'm considering.
Still waiting on the tech draw so my anguish can really begin.

Not something you can afford. You'll have 10? science. They are 14 to purchase.

[D'rek]

So Gnaw is first player next round and who is deciding the rotation? GP?

[Tattersail_]

Ganoes Paran, on 18 June 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Gnaw, on 18 June 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Ganoes Paran, on 18 June 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Gnaw, on 18 June 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 June 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Yeah, tell you what. Let me have my interceptor back and I will not raise the issue again

Why do I suspect that if Tapper put in a provisional "turn 1 move cruiser and interceptor to CF's warp portal hex", you'd be a very happy camper?

I think he may buy anti matter cannons to be honest to plop on his interceptors

Eh. That's one of the things I'm considering.
Still waiting on the tech draw so my anguish can really begin.

Not something you can afford. You'll have 10? science. They are 14 to purchase.

Not only that but they take up something like 4 energy and you do not have a better source than 3.

[Tattersail_]

D, on 18 June 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

So Gnaw is first player next round and who is deciding the rotation? GP?

Yeah i'll be going second, it'll reach you quicker.

[Gnaw]

Ganoes Paran, on 18 June 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

Ganoes Paran, on 18 June 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Gnaw, on 18 June 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Ganoes Paran, on 18 June 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Gnaw, on 18 June 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 June 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Yeah, tell you what. Let me have my interceptor back and I will not raise the issue again

Why do I suspect that if Tapper put in a provisional "turn 1 move cruiser and interceptor to CF's warp portal hex", you'd be a very happy camper?

I think he may buy anti matter cannons to be honest to plop on his interceptors

Eh. That's one of the things I'm considering.
Still waiting on the tech draw so my anguish can really begin.

Not something you can afford. You'll have 10? science. They are 14 to purchase.

Not only that but they take up something like 4 energy and you do not have a better source than 3.

I have 10 science. Where oh where could I get 4 more science?? Oh, I have 26 materials. And a muon source.

But I'd still need better computers so you're right, I probably won't buy the cannons.

[D'rek]

Ganoes Paran, on 18 June 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

D, on 18 June 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

So Gnaw is first player next round and who is deciding the rotation? GP?

Yeah i'll be going second, it'll reach you quicker.

Well, I think you get to decide that at the very end of the cleanup phase (or, you could say, at the very start of the round it affects), so you can wait to see the tech draw and supernova/hive stuff before deciding.

[Galactic Council]

Khellendros, on 18 June 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

Galactic Council, on 18 June 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

@IH,

Yeah, you're right. I guess if I'm establishing that as a rule then I should just keep the rule. I'll still wait for Twelve's comment before finalizing my decision.

Thanks for the input.

I'm vaguely annoyed by twelve having his whole combat re-rolled (sorry twelve, nothing against you or your play). I know I'm saying this after the fact now, and I quite probably don't fully understand everything that's been talked about, but it seems to me you could follow an initially-established rule or you could do what's most sensible.

Sorry, I know I'm nitpicking. My point is, essentially, that in this case it seemed to me like the more sensible thing would have been to do what IH suggested.

Depends on your view of what's "sensible" and what's "fair".

To me, they were equivalent in terms of "fairness" and even though re-rolling only round might have been slightly more "sensible", the decision was being made with foreknowledge of the outcome had he missed. Thus everyone's call on the matter is tainted by knowing exactly what his chances were. As IH pointed out, it was more advantageous to him to completely re-roll since his opening cannon round missed completely (which is not expected by his 66% chance to hit), so forcing a re-do of those two cannon blasts with the consequence for missing being death, created a situation where he had an artificially low chance of success, a situation known to the people making the call.

So maybe you can argue sensibility and fairness another way; it's subjective. The major external factor was the precedent set earlier in the game where I just re-roll combat for a major screwup affecting battle outcome.

It worked to Twelve's advantage this time, but could easily work against.

I suppose a hybrid rule could be applied where I simply rewind all rolls to the point where the mistake was made, and in that case the ancient would have re-rolled round 2 as well. Let's explore it next game. For now the re-roll rule stands.

[Tattersail_]

D, on 18 June 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Ganoes Paran, on 18 June 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

D, on 18 June 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

So Gnaw is first player next round and who is deciding the rotation? GP?

Yeah i'll be going second, it'll reach you quicker.

Well, I think you get to decide that at the very end of the cleanup phase (or, you could say, at the very start of the round it affects), so you can wait to see the tech draw and supernova/hive stuff before deciding.

Meaning if what I actually want is not there then I can just rotate the other way

[Gnaw]

Ganoes Paran, on 18 June 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

D, on 18 June 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Ganoes Paran, on 18 June 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

D, on 18 June 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

So Gnaw is first player next round and who is deciding the rotation? GP?

Yeah i'll be going second, it'll reach you quicker.

Well, I think you get to decide that at the very end of the cleanup phase (or, you could say, at the very start of the round it affects), so you can wait to see the tech draw and supernova/hive stuff before deciding.

Meaning if what I actually want is not there then I can just rotate the other way

Why would you want the rotation counter clockwise?

[Galactic Council]

@Twelve:

BY descending order of hexes in combat, you're last. I gotta wait for instruction from SS before uncovering your discovery.

[D'rek]

Ganoes Paran, on 18 June 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

D, on 18 June 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Ganoes Paran, on 18 June 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

D, on 18 June 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

So Gnaw is first player next round and who is deciding the rotation? GP?

Yeah i'll be going second, it'll reach you quicker.

Well, I think you get to decide that at the very end of the cleanup phase (or, you could say, at the very start of the round it affects), so you can wait to see the tech draw and supernova/hive stuff before deciding.

Meaning if what I actually want is not there then I can just rotate the other way

Well there's all sorts of reasons why you'd want to be early or late in the turn order, or why you'd want to go before or after a specific other person. Whatever the reasons, you get to choose!

If you're all about the tech, then you want to go earliest as possible so you either get the tech you want or have a better chance of being an early pick again next round.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 18 June 2013 - 03:32 PM

[Gnaw]

Galactic Council, on 18 June 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 June 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

Galactic Council, on 18 June 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

@IH,

Yeah, you're right. I guess if I'm establishing that as a rule then I should just keep the rule. I'll still wait for Twelve's comment before finalizing my decision.

Thanks for the input.

I'm vaguely annoyed by twelve having his whole combat re-rolled (sorry twelve, nothing against you or your play). I know I'm saying this after the fact now, and I quite probably don't fully understand everything that's been talked about, but it seems to me you could follow an initially-established rule or you could do what's most sensible.

Sorry, I know I'm nitpicking. My point is, essentially, that in this case it seemed to me like the more sensible thing would have been to do what IH suggested.

Depends on your view of what's "sensible" and what's "fair".

To me, they were equivalent in terms of "fairness" and even though re-rolling only round might have been slightly more "sensible", the decision was being made with foreknowledge of the outcome had he missed. Thus everyone's call on the matter is tainted by knowing exactly what his chances were. As IH pointed out, it was more advantageous to him to completely re-roll since his opening cannon round missed completely (which is not expected by his 66% chance to hit), so forcing a re-do of those two cannon blasts with the consequence for missing being death, created a situation where he had an artificially low chance of success, a situation known to the people making the call.

So maybe you can argue sensibility and fairness another way; it's subjective. The major external factor was the precedent set earlier in the game where I just re-roll combat for a major screwup affecting battle outcome.

It worked to Twelve's advantage this time, but could easily work against.

I suppose a hybrid rule could be applied where I simply rewind all rolls to the point where the mistake was made, and in that case the ancient would have re-rolled round 2 as well. Let's explore it next game. For now the re-roll rule stands.

That conversation reminds me of the times I used to play Diplomacy live. We always had beer. But one night a couple of people decided Vodka would be fun. So we all drank vodka. It resulted in a house rule: no liquor allowed while war gaming.

[twelve]

Gnaw, on 18 June 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Ganoes Paran, on 18 June 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

Ganoes Paran, on 18 June 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Gnaw, on 18 June 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Ganoes Paran, on 18 June 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Gnaw, on 18 June 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 June 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Yeah, tell you what. Let me have my interceptor back and I will not raise the issue again

Why do I suspect that if Tapper put in a provisional "turn 1 move cruiser and interceptor to CF's warp portal hex", you'd be a very happy camper?

I think he may buy anti matter cannons to be honest to plop on his interceptors

Eh. That's one of the things I'm considering.
Still waiting on the tech draw so my anguish can really begin.

Not something you can afford. You'll have 10? science. They are 14 to purchase.

Not only that but they take up something like 4 energy and you do not have a better source than 3.

I have 10 science. Where oh where could I get 4 more science?? Oh, I have 26 materials. And a muon source.

But I'd still need better computers so you're right, I probably won't buy the cannons.

Shit you have enough materials that you could field 8 interceptors and a cruiser this round or 2 interceptors and 4 cruisers. Purchase the positron computers with your science and you could swarm over just about anyone.