[The Watch]

Well, just finished SW and certainly enjoyed it , but I can't help to feel that I don't quite understand some (important) storylines.... Perhaps I have to blame myself, as I took a long time between starting and finishing the book and reading other stuff in between, but I hope you people can help me out here:

1) What exactly was "The Lady"? Was it a part of tCG suddenly going female? Or an unknown entity just using the power of tCG? In the prologue, it seems that the Stormriders have been attacking for quite some time before the Lady stepped in, so my guess was that she is not tCG himself but someone who arrives later, but am I missing something?


2) What's the Stormriders problem with tCG/The Lady anyway? Did they want to take the power of tCG for themselves? Or cleanse the region from his presence (by setting him free or destroying him)?

3) Why did the Malazans really invade? In the epilogue it seems that Suth is on a ship back home. Did Mallick Rel simply intend to deal with the "Stormriders problem", or to eliminate the renegade Malazan army on the continent led by Yeull? Why not add Korel and Fist to the empire?


A great read, but I would really like to understand it completely

[D'iversify]

The Watch, on 29 March 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Well, just finished SW and certainly enjoyed it , but I can't help to feel that I don't quite understand some (important) storylines.... Perhaps I have to blame myself, as I took a long time between starting and finishing the book and reading other stuff in between, but I hope you people can help me out here:

1) What exactly was "The Lady"? Was it a part of tCG suddenly going female? Or an unknown entity just using the power of tCG? In the prologue, it seems that the Stormriders have been attacking for quite some time before the Lady stepped in, so my guess was that she is not tCG himself but someone who arrives later, but am I missing something?

2) What's the Stormriders problem with tCG/The Lady anyway? Did they want to take the power of tCG for themselves? Or cleanse the region from his presence (by setting him free or destroying him)?

3) Why did the Malazans really invade? In the epilogue it seems that Suth is on a ship back home. Did Mallick Rel simply intend to deal with the "Stormriders problem", or to eliminate the renegade Malazan army on the continent led by Yeull? Why not add Korel and Fist to the empire?

A great read, but I would really like to understand it completely

Bolded are my beliefs as to the answers. The Lady was a minor entity who took advantage of the power inherent in the pieces of the Crippled God that feel on Fist. The alien and poisonous nature of the Crippled God's flesh (poisonous to Burn especially, remember) is why the Stormriders want to get rid of it (evidence of their alliance with Burn is clear in their giving Greymane his aspected sword). The Empire wanted to neutralise the threat of a renegade army to their interests in the region, and also to neutralise the antagonistic Cult of the Lady, but had little reason to occupy Fist once these forces had been wiped out, not least as most of the subcontinent is now a post-disaster zone, and also as once these forces were neutralised, the Empire can more easily gain influence through 'soft power' rather than attempting to directly impose itself on a largely hostile population.

[Salt-Man Z]

Regarding question one: it's never explicitly spelled out 100% for sure, but I think it's pretty clear The Lady is just a fragment of the CG that had grown autonomous. You do get more insight on the subject (though not the Lady in particular) in later ICE books, specifically Blood and Bone.

[tiam]

The Watch, on 29 March 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Well, just finished SW and certainly enjoyed it , but I can't help to feel that I don't quite understand some (important) storylines.... Perhaps I have to blame myself, as I took a long time between starting and finishing the book and reading other stuff in between, but I hope you people can help me out here:

1) What exactly was "The Lady"? Was it a part of tCG suddenly going female? Or an unknown entity just using the power of tCG? In the prologue, it seems that the Stormriders have been attacking for quite some time before the Lady stepped in, so my guess was that she is not tCG himself but someone who arrives later, but am I missing something?


2) What's the Stormriders problem with tCG/The Lady anyway? Did they want to take the power of tCG for themselves? Or cleanse the region from his presence (by setting him free or destroying him)?

3) Why did the Malazans really invade? In the epilogue it seems that Suth is on a ship back home. Did Mallick Rel simply intend to deal with the "Stormriders problem", or to eliminate the renegade Malazan army on the continent led by Yeull? Why not add Korel and Fist to the empire?


A great read, but I would really like to understand it completely

Your questions are valid and what everyone had after reading. It was what made me hate the book on an initial read but on a reread its alot better.

1. Yes its a piece of the CG. While the SR have already been attacking before the lady shows up it is a few pieces of the CG that make up the lady, simply manifestations of TCG power. They take on their own aspects, female in this instance, and were worshipped as a god.

2. Its really unknown. To cleanse the region, possibly, though the SR seem to be able to kill pieces of TCG which seems odd considering no one else can. The SR speak Korelri so its possible that the SR where the original inhabitants of Korel and the SR were pushed off the continent by the Fall. As a result they lived in the oceans, not being able to be near the corrupting influence of TCG fragments. After a while settlers came and were manipulated by the Lady to build the Wall and protect her. The SR then try to break the new Korelri and scourge TCG from their home continent.

Thats just a pet theory though nothing more.

3. Its not really stated, as with the SR motivations but it was likely to put down the renegade army and also to break the Ladys hold on the entire continent. Its never stated as to why simply the face value renegade army reason.

[nacht]

I am in the middle of a reread (read the previous some time back)

I agree with this

Quote

The Lady was a minor entity who took advantage of the power inherent in the pieces of the Crippled God that feel on Fist.

and disagree with this.

Quote

1. Yes its a piece of the CG. While the SR have already been attacking before the lady shows up it is a few pieces of the CG that make up the lady, simply manifestations of TCG power. They take on their own aspects, female in this instance, and were worshipped as a god.

It is stated that the lady was known by another name (shishkamil something) and that she was a minor deity who was worshipped along with others and after getting access to the crippled god's power, she used it to grow much stronger and wipe out the rest of the cults.
She seems to particularly dislike the Queen of Dreams.

Spoiler

A lot of ascendants/gods seek out the crippled god's flesh and use it to boost their power.

Also at one point, the lady speaks to Ipshank and makes an offer to him to be the Detraint, and that she already has identified her mortal sword.
It is interesting that she did not have any of these important positions filled. It seems to indicate that she now wants to join the deck and become a more global player. In this way, I feel she is similar to the Whilrwind Goddess of seven cities.

Also, when Ivanr goes back in time, he sees that the south had a lot of ice. I think this was either the ancestral homeland of the stormriders or religiously significant to them in some manner.

[nacht]

This thread has a detailed discussion on the lady. Ultimately it is what you want to believe (I think ICE does this on purpose)

http://forum.malazan...20286-the-lady/


I will throw some quotes,

Quote

‘Convert you? You do not worship the Lady?’
She nodded, so serious. ‘Oh no. We are the Sea-Folk. We follow the old ways. Oh, the last of the priests seemed harmless enough until he tried to use the boys to satisfy himself. So we bound him and threw him to the Sea-Father.’
‘The Sea-Father? Oh, yes. The old ways.’
‘Yes. The Sea-Father. The Sky-Father. The Dark-Taker. The fertile Mother. And the Enchantress. The priests spoke against her the most. But we do not listen. We know the Lady by her ancient name. Shrikasmil – the Destroyer.’

Quote

‘Enough foolishness, Ipshank. I renew my offer. Be my Destriant. The power you will wield will be unlimited. Join me! I have found my High Mage. And my Mortal Sword – or should I say Spear? He awaits my enemies on the Stormwall. Together we will sweep these invaders from our shores.’

Quote

‘What’s with the chest?’ Lazar asked.
‘A fragment of the entity charading as the Lady,’ said Shell.
‘A fragment?’ Blues repeated, alarmed. ‘As in the other name for the Crippled God … the Shattered God?’
Fingers sat heavily on a boulder.
‘Shit!’ Shell stared across the dark waters of the small crater lake surrounding this isle, to the near-black cloud cover obscuring the night sky, without seeing any of it. All that strength collected by the Crippled God. Added to him! What have they allowed here? What further catastrophes may very well be laid at their feet? She shook her head in mute denial.

Quote

SUTH LAY IN HIS HAMMOCK AND LUXURIATED IN THREE CONSECUTIVE days of relative inactivity – other than repairing his gear, and the usual make-work of cleaning the vessel. He was on board the Velenth, a Roolian merchantman commandeered for transport. The reassembled Malazan expeditionary force was returning to Quon Tali, and Command had yet to get round to formally reassigning him, Goss, Keri and Wess. He lay, an arm over his eyes, and tried to sleep while the great mass of vessels slowly made its way back through Black Water Strait.

This quote seems to indicate that the expeditionary force is going back but I am not sure if that also implies that nobody stayed back. Maybe a small portion was left behind. A small force would be enough potentially considering that most of the land was destroyed.
In general, after the area is conquered most of the attackers are expected to leave on to other venues while some would stay back to hold ground.


Regarding Mallick's strategy, we don't know his original goals but from what happened we can guess at them.

1. The Stormgaurd are gone (A big fighting force is no longer a threat to the Malazan empire)
2. The Lady is destroyed or at least minimized (A potentially powerful god/ascendant is out of the picture)
3. The rogue Malazan force is destroyed
4. The stormwall is destroyed (Mallick is a jistal priest of mael. He probably knows something about the stormriders and could have made a deal with them)
5. One less crippled gaurd fragment to worry about.
6. No more blood sacrifices on the wall (A lot of people became victims of the wall). This is the primary goal of Greymane.
7. Incidentally Greymane is gone (For Mallick, another powerful ascendant is out of the picture)
8. The Mare Naval force is destroyed. It is mentioned that the Mare fleet was a prominent threat to the Malazan navy

[The Watch]

Wow, thanks for all the information! It's a lot to tie together though, I guess a reread will be necessary. To bad ICE is so vague about some major conclusions in this book, but that's probably on purpose.
Right now, it seems the most plausible to me that the Lady was some minor spirit or godess who took advantage when tCG crashed down and used his power, since she was around before the Fall.

[worry]

Could be the Lady is just that, and is taking advantage of a piece of TCG. Could be the Lady was just that, but the opposite happened and TCG actually took over. Or -- given the millennia since the Fall -- it's not out of the question that it's TCG all along -- and he/she has been around long enough to always be someone's ancient enemy.

[Malificent]

The Watch said:

1364550854[/url]' post='1043697']
Well, just finished SW and certainly enjoyed it , but I can't help to feel that I don't quite understand some (important) storylines.... Perhaps I have to blame myself, as I took a long time between starting and finishing the book and reading other stuff in between, but I hope you people can help me out here:

1) What exactly was "The Lady"? Was it a part of tCG suddenly going female? Or an unknown entity just using the power of tCG? In the prologue, it seems that the Stormriders have been attacking for quite some time before the Lady stepped in, so my guess was that she is not tCG himself but someone who arrives later, but am I missing something?

2) What's the Stormriders problem with tCG/The Lady anyway? Did they want to take the power of tCG for themselves? Or cleanse the region from his presence (by setting him free or destroying him)?

3) Why did the Malazans really invade? In the epilogue it seems that Suth is on a ship back home. Did Mallick Rel simply intend to deal with the "Stormriders problem", or to eliminate the renegade Malazan army on the continent led by Yeull? Why not add Korel and Fist to the empire?

A great read, but I would really like to understand it completely

My thought on your first question is that the Lady is Kilmandaros, and that rather than killing her they simply removed her stranglehold on the region by removing the fragments of the CG which she gave to the founders of the wall at the beginning of the book. Pretending to be their Lady in order to use their sacrifice in her flight from the other gods/azathanai she was feuding with.. It just seemed to me that the description of the lady in the beginning fits her too well.
Isn't she in an azath house on the floor of the ocean (Mael)? Just speculating..

[Kanese S's]

In answer to the Malazan army leaving... I thought I read somewhere else in the series that the Malazan Empire typically occupied newly acquired regions with different units than had done the actual conquering?

[Aptorian]

Like sending Wickans to 7C.

It'a a tactic that the Romans also did when recruiting new legionaires and auxillary troops from the boarder provinces.

[Luperci]

Malificent, on 17 January 2014 - 06:58 AM, said:

The Watch, on 29 March 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Well, just finished SW and certainly enjoyed it , but I can't help to feel that I don't quite understand some (important) storylines.... Perhaps I have to blame myself, as I took a long time between starting and finishing the book and reading other stuff in between, but I hope you people can help me out here:

1) What exactly was "The Lady"? Was it a part of tCG suddenly going female? Or an unknown entity just using the power of tCG? In the prologue, it seems that the Stormriders have been attacking for quite some time before the Lady stepped in, so my guess was that she is not tCG himself but someone who arrives later, but am I missing something?

2) What's the Stormriders problem with tCG/The Lady anyway? Did they want to take the power of tCG for themselves? Or cleanse the region from his presence (by setting him free or destroying him)?

3) Why did the Malazans really invade? In the epilogue it seems that Suth is on a ship back home. Did Mallick Rel simply intend to deal with the "Stormriders problem", or to eliminate the renegade Malazan army on the continent led by Yeull? Why not add Korel and Fist to the empire?

A great read, but I would really like to understand it completely

My thought on your first question is that the Lady is Kilmandaros, and that rather than killing her they simply removed her stranglehold on the region by removing the fragments of the CG which she gave to the founders of the wall at the beginning of the book. Pretending to be their Lady in order to use their sacrifice in her flight from the other gods/azathanai she was feuding with.. It just seemed to me that the description of the lady in the beginning fits her too well.
Isn't she in an azath house on the floor of the ocean (Mael)? Just speculating..

Seems a bit of a stretch though, hasn't Knuckles been distracting her this whole time in the Azath house? The timeline is a bit messy when you are considering both ICE and Erickson but at the time of Stonewielder wouldn't She have her hands full with the other ascendants? And why the eternal war with the Storm Riders? That's never mentioned in BoTF.

[Abyss]

No connection between The Lady and Kila that we know of.

It is possible that CG chunk deliberately took a form that echoed an Elder Goddess who may have been active in the region some time before, but i'm speculating.