[Traveller]

The newborn thing is from the books, I'm sure. They omitted the puppies.. well, edited out seems more likely. It was kind of overkill (ha) in the first place - we got the point.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 03 April 2013 - 11:29 AM

[Malaclypse]

On the subject of real-world examples of badass oldsters, Steve is an accomplished fencer - he told me he could hold his own with Olympic-level fencers and while he is assuredly less than completely honest within the pages of his books (see my signature) he is rather principled in his personal life and is not a braggart (though I am, I have to admit). He even seemed not to take seriously my assertion that I was pretty sure I could swipe his little rapier out of the way with a simple broadsword, get inside his range and chop him to bits seriously, describing a move that I found flashy, fairly complex and undoubtedly pretty in execution. As much as I'd still have a go, I reckon he'd gut me like a fish.

Point being, he's in his fifties and I don't think he's particularly gifted at fencing, just focussed and disciplined about it. If we're comparing real-world stuff, a sword discipline is heaps more appropriate than modern unarmed arts for sure.

[Malaclypse]

Traveller, on 03 April 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

The newborn thing is from the books, I'm sure. They omitted the puppies.. well, edited out. It was kind of overkill (ha) in the first place - we got the point.

yup, confirmed on the wiki:

http://awoiaf.wester...x.php/Unsullied

[LinearPhilosopher]

Abyss, on 02 April 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Not much happened with Robb and i'm blanking on how the 200 dead Northmen got to Harrenhal to get massacred.

prisoners executed by tywin on his march on kings landing. Don't want prisoners slowing you down now do ya?

[Gothos]

Reading that wiki entry, I'm wondering how the hell does anyone at all survive the Unsullied program...

[polishgenius]

Malaclypse, on 03 April 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Moving on, there could easily be something in the atmosphere, water, physiology of this world that allows Barristan and presumably others to surpass real-world limitations. The Selmy family's maester could have come up with a super-soldier potion. A friendly wizard might have given him an enchanted genital piercing, etc. It's fantasy

I don't think we need (or are supposed) to go so far as look for magical interpretations. Regardless of how realistic it would actually be, Martin wrote Selmy as a badass, so he is. The old master who's age has not slowed him down or given him additional expertise is hardly a rare figure in fight-based storytelling, from Western Fantasy to Kung-Fu movies. Selmy's a less-extreme than usual example (like, the opposite end of the scale to Cohen the Barbarian) but that's what he is.

Quote

Anyways, the series is actually absurdly good at creating characters/casting actors/writing lines in such a way that visceral responses are evoked from people. Viewers haaaaaaate Joffrey, they looooove Tyrion, they think Cersei's hot and manipulative, they think Stannis is an asshole, they like Robb and they do not trust Littlefinger. The list goes on a bit, but there's very little of the "Tara is an unlikable idiot" type thing going on as there is in True Blood.

There's subtlety in the characters for sure, but the visceral responses are so well delivered that the characters are easy to recognize and associate, despite the politicking and maneuvering.

The iconic-yet-deep characters have been probably the series' main strength right from the books. Some very good casting has helped that jump onto the screen with no problems whatsoever. Which is great.

[amphibian]

The thing about Cohen the Barbarian is that he did very, very, very little because he was faster than his opponents. Either he and his boys ambushed everybody or it was a situation in which raw strength and blinding speed were of no use. Cohen is/was old!

Talking about a fencer vs. a broadsword wielder is all very well, but Selmy's sword was not different as that versus the others in the Kingsguard. It was a sword. Yes, experience does tell, but age catches up with heavy things like broadsword vs. broadsword in armor.

It's why Selmy carefully stalks the would be assassin and then spikes the scorpion. He doesn't want to risk a head on fight he could lose AND he wants to demonstrate his worth in an intellectual way, as well as the physical. That's where his value is, that's why he's Barristan dragontittysucklin' Selmy. What's in his head is far, far more important than what his body can and cannot do after 60+ years on Westeros.

[Morgoth]

Swords were actually never particularly heavy

[worry]

Speak for yourself, short stuff.

[amphibian]

Morgoth, on 05 April 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

Swords were actually never particularly heavy

Swing, stab and slash a broadsword for a while.

Then go swish a rapier around for a while.

See the difference.

[Brujah]

worrywort, on 03 April 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

I've beaten up old men recreationally on and off over the years, and I have to say, while most of them are pretty easy to take down (particularly by surprise), there's always an exception to the rule who will clean most anybody's clock, regardless of age. For all intents and purposes, Selmy is an exceptional man even among exceptional men. But so are Jaime, the Viper, and certainly there are some unknown quantities who've trained in Braavos or elsewhere. Like Malzan though, I'd say there's no clear hierarchy so much as strata of experience and qualification, and of course luck is a factor too. Selmy vs. Jaime is like Dassem vs. Brys to me...by reputation they could both hold their own, and a whole bunch of variables might as well be tossed in either way. Now you'll have to excuse me, as I've just realized I am involved in a "who would win in a fight" discussion and I have to go self-flagellate in penance.

No.offense, but why are any of you even questioning Ol' Barristan the Bolds mettle, anyway? I think people envision the actor they have playing Selmy, or something, but this guy in the books, books that have dragons flying through the sky and the undead trampling across the frozen tundra, is one of the best fighters in his unique world. Ned Stark gives him the proper respect in the first half of the first book, and Ned was holding his own with Jaime for a bit.


Anyway, I don't have my movie channels, and it sucks really fn' bad that I'm missing it. No one knows where you can see the first episode online, do yah?

[Brujah]

Malaclypse, on 03 April 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

On the subject of real-world examples of badass oldsters, Steve is an accomplished fencer - he told me he could hold his own with Olympic-level fencers and while he is assuredly less than completely honest within the pages of his books (see my signature) he is rather principled in his personal life and is not a braggart (though I am, I have to admit). He even seemed not to take seriously my assertion that I was pretty sure I could swipe his little rapier out of the way with a simple broadsword, get inside his range and chop him to bits seriously, describing a move that I found flashy, fairly complex and undoubtedly pretty in execution. As much as I'd still have a go, I reckon he'd gut me like a fish.

Point being, he's in his fifties and I don't think he's particularly gifted at fencing, just focussed and disciplined about it. If we're comparing real-world stuff, a sword discipline is heaps more appropriate than modern unarmed arts for sure.

Who is Steve, Mal? Steve Erikson?

[Brujah]

Morgoth, on 03 April 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

Not that I would pretend that Judo makes you capable of real life fighting, I would like to point out that my Judo trainer was in his late fifties and beat the shit out of all of us, including the other black belts, on a regular basis. And judo is somewhat exhausting as well.

Then you're not doing it, right. Repetition of the various strikes by hand and feet, along with the balance and core body strength granted by even the most basic martial arts, not too mention increased strength, power, and stamina that comes with it, actually does make someone with half a brain for technique into a very deadly fighter. I've taken Tae Kwon Do nearly my entire life, and its almost nothing more than a cardio workout, and even that is more than enough.

Yeah, I'm about to brag. I won both North and South Carolina State Championships. I've got pics of my trophies and medals in our pic thread, and I'm a small guy.

[worry]

Oh, offense taken, Karsa. Offense taken.

[Mott]

Terez, on 02 April 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

Abyss, on 02 April 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Maegry is totally playing everyone and doing a lovely job of it.

I like how Cersei comments on it. That wasn't in the books, was it? I like it either way because it clues the viewer into Cersei vs Margaery; you can't do it too subtly with the TV pace.

I think it mirrors last season nicely too, it shows that Margaery is more in control than Sansa was and better at this point in playing the game and going after what she wants, Sansa was starting last season to show her courage and take control (like her role compared to Cersi's in the Blackwater scenes) but now she's back to making up stories and relying on others for help.

[polishgenius]

Mott, on 05 April 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

but now she's back to making up stories and relying on others for help.

The huge difference; she's aware she's making up stories. If she's going to be a good liar/manipulator, she needs to be able to do that.

[Mott]

polishgenius, on 05 April 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

Mott, on 05 April 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

but now she's back to making up stories and relying on others for help.

The huge difference; she's aware she's making up stories. If she's going to be a good liar/manipulator, she needs to be able to do that.

I agree and the stories she was telling were illustrative of her shift in attitude. I think at the moment she realises she needs someones help, she's been stripped of the little position that being Joffrey's bride to be had, and is in a very precarious position, the Hound is gone and Tyrion doesn't have the power he did before so the next few episodes should be interesting ones where she's concerned, especially in her interactions with Margaery. Littlefinger is being more direct here than he was in the books too, I'm not certain if it will work as well as the Selmy introduction did but I guess it makes more sense for TV.

[Morgoth]

Karsa, on 05 April 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Morgoth, on 03 April 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

Not that I would pretend that Judo makes you capable of real life fighting, I would like to point out that my Judo trainer was in his late fifties and beat the shit out of all of us, including the other black belts, on a regular basis. And judo is somewhat exhausting as well.

Then you're not doing it, right. Repetition of the various strikes by hand and feet, along with the balance and core body strength granted by even the most basic martial arts, not too mention increased strength, power, and stamina that comes with it, actually does make someone with half a brain for technique into a very deadly fighter. I've taken Tae Kwon Do nearly my entire life, and its almost nothing more than a cardio workout, and even that is more than enough.

Yeah, I'm about to brag. I won both North and South Carolina State Championships. I've got pics of my trophies and medals in our pic thread, and I'm a small guy.

There are no strikes by hand nor feet in judo. But I'm flattered you're trying to stand up for my fighting skills.

[Ceda Cicero]

Karsa, on 05 April 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Morgoth, on 03 April 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

Not that I would pretend that Judo makes you capable of real life fighting, I would like to point out that my Judo trainer was in his late fifties and beat the shit out of all of us, including the other black belts, on a regular basis. And judo is somewhat exhausting as well.

Then you're not doing it, right. Repetition of the various strikes by hand and feet, along with the balance and core body strength granted by even the most basic martial arts, not too mention increased strength, power, and stamina that comes with it, actually does make someone with half a brain for technique into a very deadly fighter. I've taken Tae Kwon Do nearly my entire life, and its almost nothing more than a cardio workout, and even that is more than enough.

Yeah, I'm about to brag. I won both North and South Carolina State Championships. I've got pics of my trophies and medals in our pic thread, and I'm a small guy.

Way OT, but are you literally the only other person on these boards from the American Deep South? I'm from SC.

[Terez]

Ceda Cicero, on 07 April 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

Karsa, on 05 April 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

I won both North and South Carolina State Championships. I've got pics of my trophies and medals in our pic thread, and I'm a small guy.

Way OT, but are you literally the only other person on these boards from the American Deep South? I'm from SC.

Mississippi here. Y'all might as well be Yankees.