[Abyss]

I tend to agree with what the io9 reviewer said.

[amphibian]

Okay, I'm not sure who's read the books and who hasn't and this is a minor plot point that leads to something big, so going spoilers:

Spoiler

The smirk Shae gives Tyrion at the end of the episode is a lie. Or well, she's happy, but not happy for the reasons we as an audience are supposed to think. This is when she goes to Tywin and gives him the juicy details of "Sansa is still a virgin and Tyrion has secretly disobeyed you". Why would she do this? Because Tyrion flat out told her that he doesn't have real power - Tywin does. So because Shae is Shae in an insane court (and we have Roz as an example of someone who failed to navigate things correctly), she goes to attach herself to real power when she has something of value.

This show is so good at making these moments pop out. For those of you saying Tyrion should get an Emmy for the line to Joffrey preventing the gang rape of Sansa by the insane court, I think he deserves it more for the quieter moments with Sansa, where he's clearly awkward, clearly trying to preserve her innocence and all the while, pushing her away from him because he comes off as an asshole the entire time. The io9 reviewer got it right when noting the self-loathing and how a shrewder person would have been nicer to Sansa.

Sansa's actor by the way pulls off the "too dumb to take control of anything" vibe so well. It's a hard one to show onscreen without pissing off audiences and she (with the help of the cast and crew) has pulled it off well. I like her as an actress better than Arya, who has a bit of "onstage at the local high school's play and having to stamp around" vibe to her acting choices. Age isn't that much of a factor as Sansa is 17 and Arya 16.

[Abyss]

This thread is spoilers OK for all SIF books, but even so that's likely a reminder for many so i'll reply below and to be clear

MASSIVE HUGE BOOK AND
POSSIBLE TV SPOILERS BELOW

SPOILERS

BOOK
SPOILER

WOODEN COCK WILL FUCK YOU LIKE A BANSHEE SPOILERS

SPOILERS

amphibian, on 21 May 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

Okay, I'm not sure who's read the books and who hasn't and this is a minor plot point that leads to something big, so going spoilers:

Spoiler

The smirk Shae gives Tyrion at the end of the episode is a lie. Or well, she's happy, but not happy for the reasons we as an audience are supposed to think. This is when she goes to Tywin and gives him the juicy details of "Sansa is still a virgin and Tyrion has secretly disobeyed you". Why would she do this? Because Tyrion flat out told her that he doesn't have real power - Tywin does. So because Shae is Shae in an insane court (and we have Roz as an example of someone who failed to navigate things correctly), she goes to attach herself to real power when she has something of value.

I interpret this slightly differently.

Unlike the books, the show is spending time developing the Shae/Tyrion relationship, likely to make her eventual betrayal all the worse, tho to hedge my bets it may be they'll break from the story and have Tywin kill her to motivate Tyrion's famous crossbow shot as the reviewer suggested.

Point being i interpretted her smile as a sincere 'ok you're not an asshole' to Tyrion. She hasn't betrayed him YET. It's even been suggested she likes Sansa at least a little.

BUT... when Tyrion is framed for Joffrey's death (look i DID warn about spoilers.. if that was a revelation for anyone you have yourself to blame), ever practical Shae sees how things are going and lines herself up with Tywin.

Hilarity ensues.


I agree with you the show is nailing little moments like that. The subtlety of so many of the performances is brilliant.

Cersei in particular had two of the bext lines in the series this ep... "Call me sister again and i'll have you strangled in your sleep. " and "No one cares what your father told you.". The low-key, matter of fact delivery was perfect.

[Terez]

Briar King, on 20 May 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

That was a meh epi for you T? Holy fuck I think that might ev been my fav ep this season.

It was mostly meh. I found Tyrion's drunkenness to be more annoying and awkward than anything else, though of course there were a few good moments.

[amphibian]

I thought the "strangled in your sleep" line was a bit over the top - exposing Cersei's lack of tact and wisdom. It's never, ever a good idea to let a court enemy know you're willing to escalate to murder over being called "sister", even if the goal is establishing unpredictability or a bit of fear. Maegary should be shocked at first, but then after some thinking (and consulting with Olenna) realize that if Maegary isn't alive and married to Joffrey, the Tyrells either disappear and leave the Lannisters alone to stand against the others or actively turn against the Lannisters.

The line to Loras was awesome though. Just pure raw "shut down".

Tyrion's drunkeness was kind of awesome to me - the God of Tits and Wine thing from earlier in the show came full circle - and he not only showcased his own selfishness and somewhat insensitivity to Sansa, but provided perfect cover for him actually saying what he wanted to say to Joffrey and Tywin. It was not only camouflage, but rebelliousness mixed in with sheer debauchery. And it let him immediately prevent the gang rape of Sansa too, which is really nice.

I think the io9 guy (and a lot of people) didn't realize just how bad the treatment of Sansa was going to be. The thing Joffrey called for was basically for everybody at the wedding to tear her clothes off, molest her and possibly have Joffrey have sex with her before delivering her to Tyrion for the finish. Ugh. What a repellent thing.

[Terez]

I think the 'king gets first go' thing is not done any more; I'm trying to remember the context, but I know when Aerys threatened to do that with Joanna Lannister, Tywin was quite upset about it, and supposedly it didn't actually happen. But Tywin has personal reasons to prevent that from happening.

Edit: By the way, I think Peter Dinklage is very handsome. But I think it's mostly men who go on about it.

This post has been edited by Terez: 21 May 2013 - 07:32 PM

[amphibian]

The specific thing Joffrey called for has all the women tearing the clothes off the groom, molesting him, possibly have significant sexual contact with him and then sending him into the wedding chamber. All the men would then tear off the clothes of the bride, molest her, possibly have significant sexual contact with her and then send her into the wedding chamber.

It's not a particularly nice tradition and you know Joffrey would take it even further and have sex with Sansa to sate his own "well she was mine first" desires and the general abusing of Tyrion's position.

[Terez]

amphibian, on 21 May 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

The specific thing Joffrey called for has all the women tearing the clothes off the groom, molesting him, possibly have significant sexual contact with him and then sending him into the wedding chamber....

Yes, I know about the bedding ceremony. That's not what I'm talking about; the ceremony doesn't extend to sex, except between the bride and groom. If Joffrey were to take it further, it would definitely be outside the boundaries of tradition, and Tywin would likely have a problem with it (again, if for no other reason than his personal experience). Hell, even Cersei tried to stop it.

This post has been edited by Terez: 21 May 2013 - 08:32 PM

[amphibian]

Intimidating Joffrey only works if it's one on one right now. He's too old and too... needed as a status symbol to do otherwise.

The stool thing showed exactly how little power Tywin or Cersei have on Joffrey in front of the court. They can't embarrass him in front of that many people because he's the king they're trying to get everyone to respect, so he gets to do what he wants - until someone with the freedom to speak freely speaks up (as in a certain drunk uncle on his wedding night).

[worry]

While I agree that Cersei's bluntness is unwise, I think she (on the show) is in an even more despairing position than in the books, so her behavior is bound to be different. In fact, she's showing some of the same self-destructive qualities that Tyrion is, though they manifest differently. I think in episode 10, after the RW and after Loras (presumably) joins the white cloaks, and quite probably the return of Jaime, she will have an upswing and kind of snap out of it.

Ep 10 is called "Mhysa" meaning mother, an appellation given to Dany in the books and I assume on the show too, but I'm quite sure the episode will hit that theme in a lot of different ways. With Cersei, as I mention above, having a "good day" so to speak. With Talisa perhaps, if she remains a character. More Gilly too perhaps. And I share (and very much hope) that amph's suggestion re: Lady Stoneheart comes true. Not to mention Arya, who won't be seeing her mother, and stuff like that. Sansa, who won't be impregnated any time soon (we'll see if amph's prediction on that with Shae comes to fruition; I don't think she was particularly simple in the books, and she's even more overtly complicated on the show w/o POV restrictions IMO) and of course Tyrion killed his own mother, which might come up again. Melisandre's warped motherhood, maybe one more scene with Stannis's actual wife too. I dunno, not saying all of these things will be hit, but I think it's a theme rich with possibility on this show.

[Abyss]

The bedding ceremony as described in the books is actually depicted as a fairly harmless tradition, fun at best., embarassing at worse and iirc it doesnt extend to the crown hanging around for the sex. In the books as the show Tyrion's own issues combined with his awareness of Sansa's lead him to refuse. Joffrey made his rape threat for later, once Tyrion passed out. Not during the ceremony.

[Terez]

I have no doubt he was looking forward to the ceremony all along, and that thoughts of it inspired his little speech to Sansa. His calling for the ceremony was, at that point, just a nice way to rub it in.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

I thought this last episode was a bit of an upswing in terms of quality and enjoyment for me - when they stop trying to cram everybody in, the flow and pacing work much better.

I thought the whole wedding scene played out beautifully. Dinklage is fantastic but I think Sophie Turner deserves credit too, she does very well. Thought Cersei's lines were fantastic too.

I was actually slowly falling out with the series this season, but my faith is restored just in time for the Red Wedding. Woop!

[Garak]

So is the last episode going to deal with the attack on Yunkai and Castle Black? I'm going to assume that Rains of Castamere focuses on the RW much like the battle of Blackwater last season.

[polishgenius]

sorrysort, on 21 May 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

While I agree that Cersei's bluntness is unwise, I think she (on the show) is in an even more despairing position than in the books, so her behavior is bound to be different. In fact, she's showing some of the same self-destructive qualities that Tyrion is, though they manifest differently. I think in episode 10, after the RW and after Loras (presumably) joins the white cloaks, and quite probably the return of Jaime, she will have an upswing and kind of snap out of it.

Possibly true. Cersei in the books does go full fruitloop, but rather later than she's started to here- however it makes sense to bring it forward because of the whole Loras thing being front and center. I think it's a good choice and brilliantly played- you essentially see her grip on sanity start slipping the moment Tywin informs her she'll marry Loras and she's been tumbling since then. That little speech was the first blatant sign of it but it's been coming.

[worry]

Yeah I agree with that. When I say "snap out of it" I just mean temporarily (like for the episode) to give Cersei a few small victories to cap the season. I guess I'm just speculating on top of speculation, but it's what I'd like to see, personally.

[amphibian]

I really like worrywort's mother theme post back there. It leads to Lady Stoneheart, which is a stellar image in my mind, but perhaps too early for true WTF status.

[amphibian]

Yeah, but imagine the show-only people seeing Beric Dondarrion madly running to a random river bank, dropping suddenly and then seeing Lady Stoneheart sitting up with a grisly expression of hate on her face as the last image of the season.

How awesome would that be?

[Brujah]

I don't know if any of you watched the series Elementary, a show with a new take on Sherlock Holmes as an ex heroin addict and Watson as an Asian female sober companion, but the actress playing Margery plays Moriarty, Sherlock's ex GF and nemesis. She looked stunning as a blonde. I didn't find her that cute in GoT, but she was kind of hot in Elementary.

[amphibian]

Natalie Dormer is phenomenal at her job. She may have a wheelhouse of being the very smart woman that manipulates people, but the way she pulls it off makes her such a fun actor to watch for me. I enjoy Lena Headey as Cersei a bit more, but that's probably due to the variability of Cersei as a character.

Blonde, but still GoT...



I'd say there is nobody on the show who is "off". Casting department hit a series of home runs, triples, doubles and singles, with a couple walks (recasting a couple roles due to availability and such).

This post has been edited by amphibian: 25 May 2013 - 08:31 AM