[Kanese S's]

NefaraisBredd, on 21 July 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

As much as we like to hate Kallor, he is a necessary evil. He is the epitome of avarice and ambition, ego, and narcissism. He is the very worst part of all of us-the level that we can all sink to or rise to (depending on your perception). We saw humanity in Kallor when he almost killed Spinnok Durav. There other instances where Kallor has shown humanity/vulnerability. He also represents our insane amd persistent need to persist. I admire certain aspects of Kallors character, his perpetual 'middle finger' in the face of existence, his mind-blowing determination, his unflagging optimism in spite of a nasty curse that lasts for eternity. Oir society rewards anti social bastards like Kallor! Again, i dont admire his lack of respect for life or autonomy in general. However, typical human gesture to erase an empire to spite the effing gods.

I don't think there's a single thing about Kallor that admire. I was a little disappointed in the lack of dead or at least dismembered Kallor at the end of Blood and Bone.

Maybe someone will eventually deal with him in a similar way that Karsa dealt with Rhulad. Though I suspect that would require cutting off all his limbs, blinding him, and cutting out his tongue.

[Gorefest]

Kanese S, on 21 July 2016 - 11:20 AM, said:

I don't think there's a single thing about Kallor that admire.

Kallor is just misunderstood.

[Kruppe of Darujhistan]

Kallor didn't kill his entire realm's population in a bid for ascendency. He killed them to spite the EGs who were coming to free them from the tyranny of Kallor. Kallor, out of spite, destroyed them to keep the EGs from getting any satisfaction from dethroning Kallor. The curse was an afterthought, when their true mission was preempted by Kallor's monstrous but petty childishness: "If I can't have my millions of slaves, you won't get to free my millions of slaves."

[Gorefest]

That's just an assumption though. In FoD we get told that there is a high king who is a benevolent leader and Azathenai are not welcome in his realm. Maybe the azathenai were the aggressors and Kallor's subjects wrre screwups who deserved their fate. Kallor is just misunderstood.

[Kruppe of Darujhistan]

Gorefest, on 27 September 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:

That's just an assumption though.

Straight from the horse's mouth in MOI:

Spoiler

'Very well,' the High King sighed. He leaned forward. 'You've come to liberate my people from my tyrannical rule. Alas, I am not one to relinquish such things.Not to you, not to anyone.' He settled back, waved a languid hand. 'Thus, what you would refuse me, I now refuse you.'
Though the truth was before K'rul's eyes, he could not believe it. 'What have---'
'Are you blind?'Kallor shrieked, clutching at the arms of his throne.'It is gone. They are gone! Break the chains, will you? Go ahead - no, I surrender them! Here, all about you, is now free! Dust! Bones! All free!'
'You have in truth incinerated an entire continent?' the sister Elder whispered? 'Jacaruku---'
'Is no more, and never again shall be.What I have unleashed shall never heal.Do you understand me? Never.And it is all your fault.Yours. Paved in bone and ash, this noble road you chose to walk. Your road.'

Quote

In FoD we get told that there is a high king who is a benevolent leader and Azathenai are not welcome in his realm. Maybe the azathenai were the aggressors and Kallor's subjects wrre screwups who deserved their fate. Kallor is just misunderstood.

The assumption is that the High King in FoD is Kallor, which may or may not be so. Plus, Kallor's empire was an empire of humans, and the world of FoD seems to be devoid of humans.
Yes, Kallor sat on many thrones over the millennia, but before he was cursed it seems he was an ordinary human being with an ordinary lifespan, so it seems that the empire he ruled and destroyed by his own hand on jacaruku was his very first. And even if it wasn't, and he somehow exists in the world of FoD, 'benevolent' is the last word I would associate with Kallor.

[Gorefest]

Kallor probably had several empires, the Jacuruku one simply the latest.

Spoiler

Many of the azathenai are or at least seem to start off as rather childish gods, uncaring or unmindful of the consequences of their actions, meddling with creation and then leaving it to run rampant. In short, quite a number of them are utter dicks (olar Ethil, Draconus, Kilmandaros, Errastas to name but a few). If Kallor is the High King as mentioned in the prequel trilogy, then he is said to at least at one point have been considered benevolent. But the azathenai interfere and meddle. So it is not too far a stretch that they ticked him off badly. Kallor probably also sees humans as yet another Azathenai creation (Imass spawn no less, and Kallor hates the Imass), deserving of his scorn. We do learn from the main series that there is a lot more depth to Kallor than a simple nasty tyrant. Think of his scenes with Spinnock. Think of his visit to Sarenas to announce the death of his Tiste Liosan wife.


Nope, i stick to my guns. Kallor is just misunderstood. Driven to despair by the elder gods / azathenai, cursed to see everything around him die and fail. The Jacuruku peoples probably deserved their fate, as they tried to whack him with a God bomb and seemed to be involved with rather dubious metaphysics anyway if BnB is to be believed; silverfox was a powerful new bonecaster for the hated t'lan imass who by all accounts are an obscene twist of nature anyway (going undead to hunt down an entire race for the missteps of a small group of wrongdoers is an epical overreaction and a pretty shitty thing to keep going for millennia) and the brood of Olar ethil who is a proven bitch in her own right; Whiskeyjack simply was in the wrong place at the wrong time and Kallor had no personal beef with the man; same for Spinnock. Really, when you break it all down, Kallor is perhaps the most worthy and sensible character in the entire series. Just misunderstood.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 28 October 2016 - 01:27 PM

[Kruppe of Darujhistan]

Don't know if these spoiler tags are necessary in this forum, but better safe than sorry...

Spoiler

Yeah, all those millions of jacaruku-ites prolly had it coming due to a handful of desperate sorcerors in their midst trying to take Kallor out. Serves 'em right. Hmm...
No, I think Kallor in that instance is quite well understood... as a depraved psychopath.

Now, in the case of Orfantal, yeah, Kallor was more than justified in offing him, since he swooped down in dragon form with the aim of further delaying Kallor in his bid for Dragnipur. He bit off more than he could chew and Kallor showed him the error of his ways. And Korlat's thirst for revenge is tainted by the fact that Orfantal was the aggressor in that fight.

The prologue of MOI says the EGs cursed Kallor 119,000 years before Burn's Sleep (3 years after the CG came down). For some reason i thought it was quite a bit more recently than that, but that's still well after the FoD events - or is it? In FoD Burn is already sleeping, so I don't know how to square the circle of the chronology.

Don't get me wrong. Kallor is among my favorite characters, but he's no saint - misunderstood or otherwise.

Also: I'm clueless as to Kallor's antics per ICE's sub-par fan-fiction. Yeah, yeah, ICE co-created the world with SE. And Ringo was a Beatle. So what?

[worry]

Ringo is great at his job.

[Kruppe of Darujhistan]

worry, on 28 September 2016 - 02:41 AM, said:

Ringo is great at his job.

That he is. I should have said: Zeppo was a Marx Brother. So what?

[Keysi]

Kallor should be voiced by Simon Templeman.