[theocean]

Why do Icarium and Karsa end up fighting when they meet eachother? Should i know already? (just read the scene)

[Spoilsport Stonny]

Quote

The creature is Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the destructor, Volguus Zildrohar the traveler has come! Choose and perish.

Kidding.

I think Icarium would rather not fight, but his chaotic nature would rise the challenge, and he was especially egged on by Rylaandaras, being told that he should avoid him. Karsa wants to fight anything that stands in his way that he sees as a hinderance to his destruction of civilization. As soon as Mappo could see that Icarium would go all batshit, he knocks out Karsa and they GTFO.

This post has been edited by Stalking Stonny: 01 March 2013 - 01:39 PM

[theocean]

I just dont understand why the both just assume they have to fight, didnt Mappo say they wouldnt get in his way? I thought they were getting along and were going to just go their seperate ways and then they just decide they have to fight and Icarium starts throwing rocks at people.

[End of Disc One]

Stalking Stonny, on 01 March 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

Quote

The creature is Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the destructor, Volguus Zildrohar the traveler has come! Choose and perish.

Kidding.

I think Icarium would rather not fight, but his chaotic nature would rise the challenge, and he was especially egged on by Rylaandaras, being told that he should avoid him. Karsa wants to fight anything that stands in his way that he sees as a hinderance to his destruction of civilization. As soon as Mappo could see that Icarium would go all batshit, he knocks out Karsa and they GTFO.

Karsa knocked out Icarium before getting knocked out by Mappo.

I always thought this was strange too. I guess Icarium just knew it was a convergence and figured a fight was inevitable.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

theocean, on 01 March 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

I just dont understand why the both just assume they have to fight, .

Remember that part in seven samurai when the badass swordsman takes out those guys in one on one swordplay and the main samurai knew he was the best and knew none of the others stood a chance but still they kept coming at him?



Some people just have to prove themselves. Even if they end up being wrong. In this case, Mappo prevented us from ever knowing.

End of Disc One, on 01 March 2013 - 04:47 PM, said:

Karsa knocked out Icarium before getting knocked out by Mappo.

I know but even from the little we knew of Icarium, he wouldn't have stayed knocked out for long. Then the shit would have hit the fan.

This post has been edited by Stalking Stonny: 01 March 2013 - 06:10 PM

[theocean]

Stalking Stonny, on 01 March 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

theocean, on 01 March 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

I just dont understand why the both just assume they have to fight, .

Remember that part in seven samurai when the badass swordsman takes out those guys in one on one swordplay and the main samurai knew he was the best and knew none of the others stood a chance but still they kept coming at him?



Some people just have to prove themselves. Even if they end up being wrong. In this case, Mappo prevented us from ever knowing.

End of Disc One, on 01 March 2013 - 04:47 PM, said:

Karsa knocked out Icarium before getting knocked out by Mappo.

I know but even from the little we knew of Icarium, he wouldn't have stayed knocked out for long. Then the shit would have hit the fan.

Im hoping to see a rematch now that Karsa has a sword to match his... The abilities of some of the characters is hard to gauge sometimes... Karsa was able to knock Icarium out cold and Icarium is supposivly a monster of power with the ability to destroy cities, and the guy who KOd him with a single punch was taken prisoner several times by humans. I love how SE leads you not knowing so much, i find myself reading ALL the damn time now trying to figure it all out.

[Brujah]

Dear Icarium,

YOU GOT KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT.

Love,
Karsa


Seriously though. This is one of the best aspects of the series. Keep reading. You'll wonder who is better than who with a bunch of different characters.

[Iamme]

Icarium defeated Calm. Calm owned Karsa. Karsa punched Icarium out.

[Abyss]

Iamme, on 31 March 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

Icarium defeated Calm. Calm owned Karsa. Karsa punched Icarium out.

Iccy had help against Calm.
So did Karsa, actually, but they didnt do so well.

[ShantyKing]

Icarium isn't one to back down from a fight, and Karsa (especially at that point in time) wants to fight anything that's tough and in his way. Karsa was egged on by the warning he received just before meeting Mappo and Icarium, and likely took it as a challenge to his character. Icarium is keen enough to sense when an opposing figure has violent intentions towards him. So, they fought. Kind of. Icarium didn't expect Karsa's strength, so got blasted by Karsa's blow. Luckily, Mappo takes his responsibility seriously, knocked out Karsa, and talked Icarium into leaving. And the world lives another day.

[Jagh-o-matic]

I just reread the scene in question, and I think Shanty's pretty much got it. You have to follow the path of Mappo's conversation pretty carefully. It seems to me that he is getting increasingly fatalistic and is actually hastening the confrontation, believing that it is inevitable and that he might as well deal with it sooner than later. He eggs Karsa on by feeding him a bunch of talk about how much they (M and I) can see in him, particularly the curse of his chained ghosts, which he has proven sensitive about in the past. All of this not only puts Karsa back on his heels, but also tells the reader that Icarium may be looking at Karsa as a pretty negative force in the world, and in the past we have seen that Icarium gets testy with beings he considers to be evil. Plus, we know that Karsa has decidedly mixed feelings about the tales told in Teblor history, and Icarium appears there in a decidedly ambiguous way - especially in the writings found in the cave on Teblor lands..

Finally, Mappo's paragraph referencing convergence, when you strip away all the metaphysics, is pretty much telling Karsa straight up that confrontation is inevitable. Being very literal-minded, Karsa wants to get right to it, and draws his sword. The rest is history.

[Silencer]

Defiance, on 29 April 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

*snip*

Regards the potential for spoilers:

Spoiler

...having not read TCG, I'm not seeing any spoilers there. The fact that Icarium fought and defeated Calm (with help) before entombing her is from HoC, with the cave paintings, and Karsa getting owned by Calm is from the same scene.

If this or something similar happens again in TCG, then the only spoiler is your post.

[Brujah]

Silencer, on 29 April 2013 - 03:37 AM, said:

Defiance, on 29 April 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

*snip*

Regards the potential for spoilers:

Spoiler

...having not read TCG, I'm not seeing any spoilers there. The fact that Icarium fought and defeated Calm (with help) before entombing her is from HoC, with the cave paintings, and Karsa getting owned by Calm is from the same scene.

If this or something similar happens again in TCG, then the only spoiler is your post.

Yeah, Sil's right, but I think Defiance probably just forgot that the ForkAssail from HoC was Calm, thus assumed it was from later in the series. I'd forgotten that it was Calm at first, as well.

In fact, I don't remember the scene all that well, but didn't Calm not only beast on Karsa, but literally did it with one finger. I was remembering it as Calm flicking Karsa on the hip and knocking him across the forest, or something. Sort of like how

Spoiler

the Eres touches Icarium on the hip after the fight near the throne of shadow and knocks him out with a single touch.

But with all due respect, losing to Calm was all part of Karsa's master plan. He allowed this to happen, of course, because nothing can truly beat him. Except when the various malazans kick his ass at first, or when Mappo knocks him out, or when

Spoiler

Urko slams him in the chest or side with a punch that shows him what a REAL punch is, later in his journey.

[Kanese S's]

I never forgot that it was Calm.

I tend to remember dangerous women.

[Kanese S's]

But yes, Calm was one of several characters early in Karsa's development to kick his ass.

As for why Karsa picks a fight with Icarium? I think partly he wants to test whether Iccy IS the same as the one from his people's legends.

[Defiance]

Ah, my mistake, deleted the post.