Malazan Empire: My review of the whole thing - Malazan Empire

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

My review of the whole thing Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   DarkBoris 

  • Recruit
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 2
  • Joined: 01-March 13

Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:43 AM

So I have been reading the Malazan Book of the Fallen series for years. It took a long time with a lot of stumbling. Like school I had to walk away for a couple years. Like school after putting so much blood, sweat, in tears into it, I felt I had to leave a mark somewhere. At least with school I had a piece of paper that said I graduated. This book ilicited strong emotions. I am not looking for comments and do not care if they go unwitnessed. Bad joke :D So here goes.

In summary this series prior to the end(a little foreshadowing) was some of the most enjoyable fantasy I have ever read. I absolutely enjoyed the innovation of about everything. Erikson took every sterotype and dumped it. In normal fantasy books it is easy to figure how who are the humans, who are the elves, who are the dwarves, etc etc etc. Instead and I assume his partner in crime cooked up very cool races that truly were alien. K'Chain Che'Malle are not just lizardmen. They have a completely different concept of self, being, and expectation of outlook. Not only do we understand they are different but through the conversations we have the opportunity to understand these races truly are not human. Undeath is another realm of existence and has its advantages as well as its problems. I also enjoyed the fact there were so many strong female and minority characters. The blonde, blue eyed knight with pale skin does not always have to come and save the day. I can go on and on. Not everything has to make sense. If anyone recalls the movie "Demolition Man". Sly Stallone's character never finds out how to use the seashells to clean his butt. Is it not better to leave it as a mystery and enjoy that the future citizens can giggle at his ignorance. So much of stuff not being predictable or explainable is actually a benefit. So what if I don't have a clue how the magic system works.

The other items that I loved was the character build up. I am a old Hero gamer from the early 80ties. Gaming was all about role playing and taking on the persona of a character. There might have been some who found the conversations in the books tedius. But I ate them all up. When we did not have a quorum for gaming or even if the game master could not make it my circle of gamers would just role play. We would have conversations just like the many that I read in all the ten books. I really felt I knew not just a few of the main characters but all of them right down to their soul. Even though I can't even handle the English language I appreciated the subtle vocabulary. Some day I am going to get all the books on Kendall so I can reference the words quicker. I am going by memory but I vaguely remember a word like "Pulte" or something like that. I believe Trull Sengar was looking at a rock and seeing faces. But when I looked it up the best I could find was references to French Candian idiom for currency. There are so many great & noble, despicable, and inbetween characters. If you don't like one, keep reading. What was better is you understood their perspectives. Good and evil was not obvious. It was all just perspective. Even the most awful characters had a justification in their minds for what must be done.

Just as all the norms and sterotype's were busted, so were the visions of horror. Every book revealed yet another deprivation that trumped what had been revealed earlier. If your a math person you would say that this ten book series spanned all the possibilities of horror, despair, and heartbreak be it macro or impacting just one individual. Yet in this awful world we are witness to brilliant nobility contrasted against a dark curtain of unending corruption. But beware because light does not always mean good and dark evil. Is not the actions of these noble few even more heroic after we witness their trials and perhaps tempering but refusal to break? Erikison crafts great heros from unlikely stuff. Anyone can cheer for the "blessed/gifted/the dude that has the plot writer on his side" But the real hero is the person who struggles through pain, horror, and deprivation, never getting a break and comes through. And if they suffer death, we all appreciate and cheer their nobility. Go Trull Sengar!!!

I have a lot of great stuff and great memories. I will probably reread some of these books. Chain of Dogs has burned into me forever. Yet I do have some very serious problems with how the series concludes. I wonder if Erikson tired of the series and just rushed to wrap it up because the quality of the story in my opinion breaks down in the last 275 pages. Was there just too much going on for even he to keep track? What really captures me in a series is a capable antagonist. As the series progressed the good guys became more capable and conversly the bad guys got dumber. At the end I was half excepting Jack Palance to be revealed as the ultimate leader of The Forkrul Assail. Playing the incompentent villian may be entertaining in "Tango & Cash". However it is not so fun when the same trick gets used over & over. All this hard work of building up to a climax becomes a whimper and fizzle when the other side shows up to be bumbling buffoons. I cried out in dismay when Calm gets bushwacked in the exact identical manner that occurred to Reverence minus a dog. Come on now!!!!! I guess it can be explained that perhaps Forkrul Assail have tunnel vision and can't sense anything other then what they set their sights on. I understand as a gamer you need artistic license to make a story and set up heroism. But was not the method in the first nine books better? why skimp out now? Where is Leoman of the Chains or Korblo Dom when you need him?

Another item that bothered me is the expected strengths and abilities of the races seemed to change as needed. I really felt going into book ten that I had a good feel for what their prowess was capable of. I thought Karsa Orlong was a bad a&& for taking on a short tail on his own. Then Skulldeath casually takes out a dozen. And that is only because the site www.bodycount.com requires a visual kill :D Imass and Asail seemed to get tougher and weaker as needed. As I progressed through the last two books the story seemed to morph into a one sided Yu-Gi-Oh! episode. I understand that artistic liberty is needed to line up fate to make a story. But if one side holds all the cards(No pun for Ganos Paron) then the whatever accomplishment there is in saving the world or multiverse is diluted by the deficiencies of the other side. One side seemed to have all the capable spell casters, technology hundreds of years ahead of everyone else, and a score of individuals with unique capabilities including nuking everything within the immediate vicinity makes for a boring story. The herosim was never needed and the tension and uncertainty of success is gone. With a hundred pages to go finishing the book became a struggle. All I had to do was laugh at the bumbling idiocy of the bad guys and wait for YuGi to throw another card to win the game. But instead of it being in minute 28, I had to plow through a hundred more pages.

In summary I wish I had lost my copy of The Crippled God around page 650 and someone pull an Icarium on me. I would ignorantly continue with my life told that I had read the end and I loved it unaware of exactly what happened. This is was still a great epic read and struggle for me and I look forward to some of the other works. If the ending had been pulled off I would no holds bar say this would have been the most enjoyable piece of fantasy I had ever read. Instead it is one of the best. Apologies for the strong opinions. But I only reserve this for something worth writing about. And I have never posted an opinion on any book ever before. So do not take by negatives as bagging this series as I still really enjoyed it. Futhermore, I vote with my pocketbook by buying more. On to the next series.
1

#2 User is offline   Tehol the Only 

  • Fist
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 214
  • Joined: 05-March 12
  • Location:Ravenna - Italy

Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:57 AM

It'll never stop to amaze me how this series can be so polarizing even among fans.
It's simply impossible to find 2 people who like the same parts.

Anyway I think that TCG was the best one, but i think i see what you mean.
We are the Vord. Prepare to be assimilated. Furycrafting is futile.
0

#3 User is offline   Hinter 

  • First Sword
  • Group: High House Mafia
  • Posts: 504
  • Joined: 02-October 08

Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:21 AM

I was raging after finishing tCG. Whilst I didn't expect an Enid Blyton ending with lashings of ginger beer and bunny rabbits I was hoping for a lot more resolution. When I turned the last page and closed the book I felt more than a little cheated (in fact the book got launched across my living room to a soundtrack of harsh language).. As DarkBoris said I had the distinct feeling that SE just wanted to lose this millstone around his neck and get on with other stuff.

I also don't like the "well ICE is dealing with that storyline" explanation as a find his books are declining in quality with every release.

Still the best fantasy series I've read though, and I've read one or two...
0

#4 User is offline   worry 

  • Master of the Deck
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 14,817
  • Joined: 24-February 10
  • Location:the buried west

Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:45 AM

I just re-read TCG, liked it even more the second time around. First time I kinda was looking for a supervillain, so I did have some reservations about the FA. Second time through I was more satisfied with the big action stuff happening at the First Shore, and the more thoughtful Crippled God & Bonehunters-centric finale after that. I also caught a lot more of the fabric of the coalition of villains and other threats, and how much the preparedness of the good guys (including among the pantheon) comes down to Anomander Rake and Shadowthrone/Cots. I really wouldn't change much of anything, except a few more goodbyes in the Epilogues.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
0

#5 User is offline   Tehol the Only 

  • Fist
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 214
  • Joined: 05-March 12
  • Location:Ravenna - Italy

Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:32 AM

Completely agree with you wort.. the only thing that left me puzzled was the treach storyline but apart from that i loved every single line of that book.
We are the Vord. Prepare to be assimilated. Furycrafting is futile.
0

#6 User is offline   worry 

  • Master of the Deck
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 14,817
  • Joined: 24-February 10
  • Location:the buried west

Posted 01 March 2013 - 09:07 AM

Even that made somewhat more sense to me on repeat. Menandore is dead, Kettle House is dying, it's inevitable Starvald Demelain will be breached and the Refugium's days are numbered. Kilava is feeling hopeless and sends everyone else away in the desperate wish that they might find another refuge...either through Olar Ethil's success, the guidance of Seren Pedac and Udinaas, or perhaps most desperately, in the aftermath of the huge CG-related convergence.

There's some crossed wires between Kilava, Gruntle, and Trake. Kilava is sending visions to keep Gruntle/Trake away. Gruntle only sees the mystery panther from his dreams and wants to save her, Trake wants to show up either cuz Kilava is his mom or because he just wants to join some big fight. By the time Gruntle gets there and talks to Kilava, he realizes she's actually planning not to fight the Eleint at all.

Gruntle understands the gravity of the situation, Kilava's despair and the inevitability of the Eleint, and decides to fight anyway...both to knock a few Eleint out of the way, as paltry as that may be, and because it's an opportunity to destroy one of the way too many gods of war. This sets Kilava's motherly instincts off, and they do battle, ending in Kilava's non-fatal wounding, and the deaths of Gruntle and Trake. It's complicated because there are at least three wills in mixed opposition here, with multiple motivations each.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
1

#7 User is offline   Spoilsport Stonny 

  • Mortal Sword
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 1,073
  • Joined: 19-March 11

Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:47 PM

I'm kind of bothered that you are comparing a book series in this scope and breadth to a horrible 90's sci-fi flick starring quite possible the worst actor ever on screen (not Wesley Snipes, btw).

However you have thought about it a bunch, and maybe if you ever get the chance or if creeping around the message boards clears a few things up for you and pushes you into desiring a re-read, you can even see how parts of GotM end up being addressed in The Crippled God. There are obvious issues with continuity, and they've been discussed ad hominem, so I wont get into that stuff, but I will say that a reread of this series, as opposed to say Dragonlance or even Wheel of Time, is very rewarding.

But I'm a little biased. Welcome to the boards.
Theorizing that one could poop within his own lifetime, Doctor Poopet led an elite group of scientists into the desert to develop a top secret project, known as QUANTUM POOP. Pressured to prove his theories or lose funding, Doctor Poopet, prematurely stepped into the Poop Accelerator and vanished. He awoke to find himself in the past, suffering from partial amnesia and facing a mirror image that was not his own. Fortunately, contact with his own bowels was made through brainwave transmissions, with Al the Poop Observer, who appeared in the form of a hologram that only Doctor Poopet could see and hear. Trapped in the past, Doctor Poopet finds himself pooping from life to life, pooping things right, that once went wrong and hoping each time, that his next poop will be the poop home.
0

#8 User is offline   tiam 

  • Ascendant
  • Group: Mott Irregulars
  • Posts: 3,948
  • Joined: 26-January 06

Posted 01 March 2013 - 07:38 PM

View PostStalking Stonny, on 01 March 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

I'm kind of bothered that you are comparing a book series in this scope and breadth to a horrible 90's sci-fi flick starring quite possible the worst actor ever on screen (not Wesley Snipes, btw).



If you mean Stallone, hes a multi millionaire, Oscar nominated actor who wrote an Oscar winning Best Picture film that beat All the Presidents Men and Taxi Driver. He has also produced massive hits recently that are all commercially successful. It annoys me when people take shots at people like Stallone who made millions making films people want to see.

Anyway...

his names Leoman of the Flails not chains.

Anyway...

Whats up with all the Yu Gi Ho references? I love you gi oh pikachu was my favorite Digimon..


Anyway...

Reread it. The Perish plotline aside, things are alot better on a reread and it is worth rereading. I felt the same as you and the FA usually die to someones (admittedly foreshadowed) special power.

Im unsure why im being so petty and pedantic above forgive me.
1

#9 User is offline   Spoilsport Stonny 

  • Mortal Sword
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 1,073
  • Joined: 19-March 11

Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:38 PM

I was referring to Sandra Bullock.
Theorizing that one could poop within his own lifetime, Doctor Poopet led an elite group of scientists into the desert to develop a top secret project, known as QUANTUM POOP. Pressured to prove his theories or lose funding, Doctor Poopet, prematurely stepped into the Poop Accelerator and vanished. He awoke to find himself in the past, suffering from partial amnesia and facing a mirror image that was not his own. Fortunately, contact with his own bowels was made through brainwave transmissions, with Al the Poop Observer, who appeared in the form of a hologram that only Doctor Poopet could see and hear. Trapped in the past, Doctor Poopet finds himself pooping from life to life, pooping things right, that once went wrong and hoping each time, that his next poop will be the poop home.
0

#10 User is offline   worry 

  • Master of the Deck
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 14,817
  • Joined: 24-February 10
  • Location:the buried west

Posted 01 March 2013 - 09:51 PM

The Perish plotline is awesome on re-read too. My only issue with it is that I grew a bit sentimental about Togg & Fanderay, but on the other hand, their bestial reasoning makes sense. Humans might romanticize the millennia they spent apart, their reunion, etc....but I don't think that tugs at their heartstrings the same way, for obvious reasons.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
1

#11 User is offline   tiam 

  • Ascendant
  • Group: Mott Irregulars
  • Posts: 3,948
  • Joined: 26-January 06

Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:34 AM

View PostStalking Stonny, on 01 March 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

I was referring to Sandra Bullock.


Sandra Bullock was the highest paid actress of 2012 and won an Oscar in a leading role. Both commercial and critical acclaim.

The Perish plotline, essentially the betrayal built up throughout, never quite goes anywhere. There was a huge betrayal prophesy build up yet nothing quite comes of it and the Perish, for me atleast, lose impetus.

I am in need of a full series reread that completely ignores ICEs books after ROTCG

EDIT- or to put it another wasy, they both have more Oscars than Gary Oldman which is a terrible crime.

This post has been edited by Jean-Claude Van tiam: 02 March 2013 - 12:37 AM

0

#12 User is offline   worry 

  • Master of the Deck
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 14,817
  • Joined: 24-February 10
  • Location:the buried west

Posted 02 March 2013 - 01:08 AM

Ah, the betrayal thing. Yah in DoD it's presented as a big prophesy, but I think TCG does a good job of addressing it and flipping it. In DoD Run'Thurvian says: "There will be . . . betrayal. Tell Krughava! The vow - we have made a mistake!' As it turns out, the betrayal is a good thing, and the Wolves' intentions are the horror that Run'Thurvian confronts (and is destroyed in the process). The vow IS the mistake.

Now Tanakalian, being the self-serving idiot he is, reports the basics but uses the vaguery to his own ends, and under his guidance the Grey Helms betray the Adjunct ("betrayal" works just as well as a plural the way Run'Thurvian used it). And with Krughava now gone, there is nobody to give the counterargument. So I don't blame the lower ranked Grey Helms for sticking to their vow to the Wolves. The leader of the Grey Helms with Serenity, I forgot his name but he led the ships to the Spire, really gives an elegant argument as to their disposition. They switch sides not only because they want the mass destruction of humanity, but because he knows the FA are much more outmatched than they realize, and the Perish need to even things out. This absolutely flabbergasts Serenity, who doesn't believe for a second his side will lose. It's a very telling scene.

Then there's finally the debate about how human wars are just that much worse than beast wars (no pun intended), we're the top of the food chain, and ultimately the beasts can wait us out cuz we're gonna all kill each other eventually. Setoc understands this at the last minute, but the Wolves (being wolves) do not. Hence that brutal finale where Mortal Sword, Destriant, and Shield Anvil -- plus one of the Wolves -- gets killed. And the veteran surgeon, now in charge, has to make his choice. Plus you get the neat little mini-arguments along the way, like Ganoes understanding the POV of the Wolves even if he doesn't side with them, etc. Lots of cool stuff like that throughout this storyline.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
1

#13 User is offline   Tehol the Only 

  • Fist
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 214
  • Joined: 05-March 12
  • Location:Ravenna - Italy

Posted 02 March 2013 - 07:01 AM

I actually liked that betrayal going nowhere, just as i liked Redmask failing in RG... i think it adds to realism (I mean irl not every plot succeed). Also, i really appreciate an author that always keeps me guessing.
We are the Vord. Prepare to be assimilated. Furycrafting is futile.
0

#14 User is offline   worry 

  • Master of the Deck
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 14,817
  • Joined: 24-February 10
  • Location:the buried west

Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:17 AM

I wouldn't say nowhere, so much as elsewhere.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
0

#15 User is offline   Kanubis 

  • Captain of Team Quick Ben
  • Group: Team Quick Ben
  • Posts: 762
  • Joined: 21-October 09
  • Location:Copenhagen

Posted 03 March 2013 - 02:24 PM

Regarding Karsa and the shorttail he kills, remember that he intentionally puts down his 'Ensouled Flint Greatsword +9999' and wrestles it to death.

I'm pretty sure he could have made a pretty short event of it all with the sword, and I'm never quite sure why he chooses to go hand-to-hand. Presumably just because he's Karsa F**king Orlong.
Captain of Team Quick Ben. Also teaboy.

0

#16 User is offline   Sinisdar Toste 

  • Dead Serious
  • View gallery
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 3,851
  • Joined: 14-July 07
  • Location:The C-Hood

Posted 03 March 2013 - 06:33 PM

View PostKanubis, on 03 March 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

Regarding Karsa and the shorttail he kills, remember that he intentionally puts down his 'Ensouled Flint Greatsword +9999' and wrestles it to death.

I'm pretty sure he could have made a pretty short event of it all with the sword, and I'm never quite sure why he chooses to go hand-to-hand. Presumably just because he's Karsa F**king Orlong.


true that, meanwhile skulldeath's technique was perfect for short-tails. they're too slow, and his aim and leaping ability is ridiculous. doesn't he ride one of their shoulders at one point? most badass homosexual ever.

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 03 March 2013 - 06:34 PM

There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.

- Oscar Levant
0

#17 User is offline   Defiance 

  • Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 1,472
  • Joined: 24-December 09
  • Location:IA
  • Interests:Malazan, RPGs, writing

Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:14 AM

View PostKanubis, on 03 March 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

Regarding Karsa and the shorttail he kills, remember that he intentionally puts down his 'Ensouled Flint Greatsword +9999' and wrestles it to death.

I'm pretty sure he could have made a pretty short event of it all with the sword, and I'm never quite sure why he chooses to go hand-to-hand. Presumably just because he's Karsa F**king Orlong.




Karsa has a huge ego, as we all know. He wanted to test himself against the beast by fighting it as it was fighting him - that is, only with its body. Karsa loves himself a good opponent.
uhm, that should be 'stuff.' My stiff is never nihilistic.
~Steven Erikson


Mythwood: Play-by-post RP board.
0

#18 User is offline   DarkBoris 

  • Recruit
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 2
  • Joined: 01-March 13

Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:38 PM

Thanks for the replies and making me not unwitnessed. A few comments as there were some spiralling tagents. I always wondered what the Gods of the Beast hold thought of the wolves that put in with man and became dogs. Are they traitors, survivors, or something else? I ultimately found the reasoning of the Perish a copout. For people who attempted to think it out through they came up with some dubious conclusions. The statement that they should give up because humans do it better is kind of dubius to me since it is established as a fact that multiple worlds have witnessed alll wolves erradicated. The entire point of existence of the Perish is that humans are better at killing then the wild. Why is the statement of the obvious so enligthening other then the fanatics not being so fanatic? They can choose to step away and accept that the wild will ultimately be destroyed and or not? The statement that humans will kill themselvs before the wild is destroyed is also dubious as there is absolutely no evidence. Humanity has been responsible for a number of terrible events allready and they are doing just fine. The irony is that if the Perish had not been unnerved they would have won. A stand at the pass would have delayed Paron the one hour needed for the last Assail to claim the crippled God. In that case the beasts would have won. The Assail may have claimed the Crippled God but they were all but wiped out. But humanity would also be crippled because one insane Assail would be enough to destroy any human civilization. Probably not to erradicate all of humanity. The new magic would be gone as Tiam destroys the Otarial Dragon. The Perish balancing on the edge of the blade would have succeeded.

Ultimately the final battle loses it's tension for me as the odds really are weighted towards the Malazans. The only monkeywrench is the releasing of the Dragon. Without that event the Assail really are doomed. I even wonder why Gano's Paron even bothered to fight the Perish other then to get rid of the Assail present. After all he could have easily teleported the entire army past the mountain pass. He teleported a army cross continent, did it tactically and it is implied teleported again to rescue his sister. The Assail thought he was too far way. I still enjoyed the entire story and how everything wrapped up. I just wish Erikson could have generated a little more doubt and tension. Instead of being at the edge of my seat it was more just to see how the eyes get dotted and the tees crossed. I ultimately was not suprised by the conclusion. Constrast to earlier climaxes in the series where I was completely suprised by the conclusion.
0

#19 User is offline   Abyss 

  • abyssus abyssum invocat
  • Group: Administrators
  • Posts: 22,433
  • Joined: 22-May 03
  • Location:The call is coming from inside the house!!!!
  • Interests:Interesting.

Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:39 PM

View PostDarkBoris, on 04 March 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

... I just wish Erikson could have generated a little more doubt and tension....



Am curious - would you say that you went into the last four big battles (the Spire, the Marines protecting the CG, Tavore and the Regulars vs the Assail, all the the dragon craziness) not the least bit 'tense' about which characters would live or die?
THIS IS YOUR REMINDER THAT THERE IS A
'VIEW NEW CONTENT' BUTTON THAT
ALLOWS YOU TO VIEW NEW CONTENT
1

#20 User is offline   worry 

  • Master of the Deck
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 14,817
  • Joined: 24-February 10
  • Location:the buried west

Posted 04 March 2013 - 09:23 PM

I'm not sure what your argument is. The Perish should have been less stupid? Yah, so should everybody.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
0

Share this topic:


  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users