[nacht]

On my reread I observed this

Quote

'You were too young to understand Father,' said Spite, 'when he talked to us about how we were going to grow up. Eight years, just like the Tiste, and nobody knows any different. We grow up like the rest of them. But just for those first eight years. Or nine.'

'Father says it's in our natures,' Envy added. 'What is?' Malice asked. 'Growing up … fast.'

'Scary fast,' Spite said, nodding. 'Arathan—' 'He's different—' 'No he isn't, Spite,' Envy said. 'Yes he is!' 'Well, half different, then. But you saw how he grew past us.' 'After the ice.' 'And that's the secret, Spite. You have to nearly die first. That's what I meant, before. That's what I meant.'

Quote

Malice thought about the dog, the one that Ivis had to kill. She thought about what they did to Arathan when he was little, so little he couldn't fight the dog off, not with the three of them holding him still. She wondered if he remembered all of that.

For most of time, I assumed that Arathan was the older brother but am now having doubts?
Is he younger than Spite, Envy and Malice who grew past them after the Ice accident?

Approx how old do you think Spite, Envy, Malice and Arathan are?

[Puck]

Arathan's age is given as 17 in the first chapter. Envy, Spite and Malice at the very least look younger, can't remember if it's stated anywhere how old they look. But given their nature I think it's entirely possible that they are indeed younger by a couple of years and that Arathan was a weak/sickly child and them being three against one, well.. And after nearly drowning Arathan kind of 'grew up' and past them, but it's not unusual for boys to first be smaller and weaker than girls and then grow past them (oh, those glorious kindergarten days when I could outrun and outsmart boys two years older than me.. ). Hence - as far as I figured anyway - their confusion as to whether he's different from them or not, as his 'growing past' them could be both a natural thing or something common to them all as children of Azathanai.

Just my thoughts, though.

This post has been edited by Puck: 06 February 2013 - 10:27 PM

[tiam]

While not a direct comparison id say that the adaptibilty of draconian soletaken/azathanai/ascendents in there youth is very good. We see that rud ellale wrist was significantly larger and more muscular after it had been broken. It is more than likely that arathans near death experience hastened his overall growth.

[worry]

As far as I recall, Arathan is definitely the youngest in age, but Malice is the furthest behind development-wise. Spite and Envy went from torturing Malice to torturing Arathan, but his growth spurt forced them back to torturing Malice.

[nacht]

Puck, on 06 February 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

Arathan's age is given as 17 in the first chapter. Envy, Spite and Malice at the very least look younger, can't remember if it's stated anywhere how old they look. But given their nature I think it's entirely possible that they are indeed younger by a couple of years and that Arathan was a weak/sickly child and them being three against one, well.. And after nearly drowning Arathan kind of 'grew up' and past them, but it's not unusual for boys to first be smaller and weaker than girls and then grow past them (oh, those glorious kindergarten days when I could outrun and outsmart boys two years older than me.. ). Hence - as far as I figured anyway - their confusion as to whether he's different from them or not, as his 'growing past' them could be both a natural thing or something common to them all as children of Azathanai.

Just my thoughts, though.

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In his seventeen years of life he had been in the same room with his father perhaps twenty times; surely no more than that, and not once had Draconus addressed him.

Thanks for the info. He thinks he is seventeen for sure :-).

worrywort, on 06 February 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

As far as I recall, Arathan is definitely the youngest in age, but Malice is the furthest behind development-wise. Spite and Envy went from torturing Malice to torturing Arathan, but his growth spurt forced them back to torturing Malice.

He seems to think he is older for sure.

Quote

Even in the days and nights immediately following his near-drowning, when in his ninth winter he'd fallen through ice, he'd been attended to by the guards' healer, and had received no visitors barring his three younger half-sisters,

I wonder how old Spite, Envy and Malice by the end of the book.

This post has been edited by nacht: 06 February 2013 - 11:33 PM

[worry]

Oh yah, duh. I flipped it, just trying to make sure the sisters were all grouped together. He's just dumber than them, not younger.

[Felisin Fatter]

Pretty sure he is older, the only problem is Arathan's memory is really weird and might have been manipulated by someone. The reason I believe he is older is that he vaguely remembers his sister's wet-nurse. Which implies he must be about 2 or 3 years older. They have different mothers too, so there must be a bit of an age difference. Then, at first the sisters must have grown faster than Tiste, while Arathan grew as a Tiste (which is like a human child, it seems). For a while, they were stronger and smarter (and much, much meaner) and they tortured him terribly. He seems to actually repress these memories so I bet they 're really bad. (We get some hints about setting a dog on him.. brrr.)
The girls take only a few years to grow to the size and wit of 9 year olds (2-4 years? 'scary fast'). Arathan takes about 9 years to do so (maybe? but certainly longer than SEM). Then he almost drowns and after that he starts outgrowing SEM.

Related questions:
- If Arathan is more than 10 years old, was he around when the old Lady Dracons was alive? Would love to get some info on her! For a crazy theory, she could even be Arathan's mom. Is there a connection between her 'sudden death' and his arrival?
- What actually went on whith the near-drowning? Arathan doesn't remember it at all. Sagander thinks about it, but I can't imagine he was actually there. When Arathan later passes what might be the place, he asociates it with a place where cattle (or sheep?) get slaughtered. Pretty disturbing.
- Why is Arathan forbidden to leave the House after his drowning? (Crazy theory: is he a dragon? Does he look particularly weird to Tiste eyes? The borderswords don't seem to think so.) Is it because he is growing very fast now ('scary fast'). Meaning he isn't 17 at all, but more like 11 or 12?

This post has been edited by Felisin Fatter: 29 January 2014 - 09:26 AM

[PutCashInTwo]

"(oh, those glorious kindergarten days when I could outrun and outsmart boys two years older than me.. )."


Oh - don't feel to bad, try being an 18 year old Infantry soldier and watching your 16 year old 'little sister' make it to the top of Mount Taranaki 1/2 an hour ahead of you. Just not fair!


Oh, and if a MOD reads this, my PutCashIn account has an expired email addy, so can be deleted (can't remember password, so can't do that myself).



PS: Just want to add, what if time is not constant for even invariant frames of reference in/around/what becomes Wu? One boy grows faster than the others from their perspective due to say, concentration of Potential Energy, has purple skin rather than blue, spending said time more outside than inside, or due to a rather large dollop of poetic/authors license.

PPS: DIE HTML JUNK!

This post has been edited by PutCashInTwo: 03 March 2014 - 08:53 AM