[Korbas]

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

Korbas, on 27 March 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

My question to those of you that believe who Ay is... WHY? Have you seen anything in his posts that makes you believe he's telliing the truth?



Edit: Inserted the word who.

I believe Ay is the Jester. why? because too think otherwise would make it too complicated. Occam time for now.

I think this game is meant to be complicated.

Complicated or "Stupid Complicated" ?

[Karosis]

Is it just me or do you smile every time Bendal attacks Ryll? I am loving it.



Vote Ryll



Just answer Bendal already will you?

[Kilava]

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I'm convinced that Ay is lying, and I feel that the only reason to try and convince us that he is The Jester and "harmless" is because he is scum.


vote Ay

Could you explain in a single post why you are convinced....i must have missed the reasoning somewhere?

it it only because you dont believe the jester returned for his second alt?

Aranatha consistently used double quotes and Ay has consistently used single quotes. Ay claims to be Aranatha reborn, so why would he change his writing style?

thats a bit 'weak'

but i get it

[Karosis]

We will get a CF eventually Kilava, so we will know who is scum eventually. If you really want to see how it works, we could keep on voting one of the alts that have already died and come back. That is a bit mean though, maybe we can spread the lynches out so that everyone loses a life/alt? That is not cut throat enough for me though. If we continued to cull Eloth then we can actually see whether we caught scum, or town. Then from there draw connections and also know what to expect from the first CF.

[Ryllandaras]

Bendal Home, on 27 March 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I'm convinced that Ay is lying, and I feel that the only reason to try and convince us that he is The Jester and "harmless" is because he is scum.


vote Ay

Could you explain in a single post why you are convinced....i must have missed the reasoning somewhere?

it it only because you dont believe the jester returned for his second alt?

Aranatha consistently used double quotes and Ay has consistently used single quotes. Ay claims to be Aranatha reborn, so why would he change his writing style?

You signaled Fanderay and keep trying to deny it.

No I did not. It was a joke vote.

[Ryllandaras]

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I'm convinced that Ay is lying, and I feel that the only reason to try and convince us that he is The Jester and "harmless" is because he is scum.


vote Ay

Could you explain in a single post why you are convinced....i must have missed the reasoning somewhere?

it it only because you dont believe the jester returned for his second alt?

Aranatha consistently used double quotes and Ay has consistently used single quotes. Ay claims to be Aranatha reborn, so why would he change his writing style?

thats a bit 'weak'

but i get it

Weak, but there is no reason for him to have changed, unless it's not the same player.

[Bendal Home]

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

Bendal Home, on 27 March 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I'm convinced that Ay is lying, and I feel that the only reason to try and convince us that he is The Jester and "harmless" is because he is scum.


vote Ay

Could you explain in a single post why you are convinced....i must have missed the reasoning somewhere?

it it only because you dont believe the jester returned for his second alt?

Aranatha consistently used double quotes and Ay has consistently used single quotes. Ay claims to be Aranatha reborn, so why would he change his writing style?

You signaled Fanderay and keep trying to deny it.

No I did not. It was a joke vote.

Says you. I say that you did it deliberately seeing an opportunity to get a signal vote in the wouldn't count as an actual vote.

[Kilava]

Ampelas, on 27 March 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 27 March 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

My original post (wich you clearly didn read properly as you just saw your ame and went into full defensive mode) stated that is seems as if you might have a role or two that is scummy and that you want to sow doubt over any scummy roles that might appear in the event your CF comes out.

It makes sense for you not to be too obvious about making us doubt CF validity.....so you "conceded" just to make yourself...perhaps...less obvious.
But you did sow doubt about CF's non the less.

Simple really...no need to confuse your pretty little head there chap.

You say I sow doubt, I say that I urge caution. I believe mine is a valid point, especially when you consider how many roles could be coming from not so cut-and-dry faction games.

More like I say you flat out stated, that if someone CF's as a scum role in the previous mafia game, that we should not believe it to automatically be scum.

I think to myself then?...why bother with a CF at all then?
And then think to myslef, why does this poor chap say this? He says this without much proof to the contrary?, as if perhaps to pre-emptively sow doubt on the entire concept of the CF in this game. Perhaps he has a scum CF...shame....poor him.

Thats what i think to myself.

simples

I tell you what... If someone CF's as scum, and we deduce who he is the next day, I PROMISE to very "cautious" for you.....just before i vote to lynch him again. ok with you?

You are missing the point, I hope not wilfully.

You say 'Why bother with a CF?' But look, it's not a full CF, is it? It's an incremental CF. That is, things are being purposefully left out of the first batch of CFs in order to muddy the waters - so yes, these CFs should be looked at from all angles, just like I say. Sometimes, the answer will be obvious, I'm sure. In other cases it won't be. Until we get to the point where CFs beging revealing factions, yes, we should step back and think about them. What is so wrong with that?

Look at your last line there, 'if someone CFs as scum' - well, unfortunately, that won't start happening until the final alts are in play. Until then, we'll have to deduce for ourselves. As I said just above, yes, sometimes that will be obvious. But except for the Jester, it hasn't been thus far with them.

No no no..you said "if someone has a scum role it doesnt make them scum"
(I say it more likely makes them scum than inno.. but thats besides the point i initially made.)

I say it looks like you could have a scum ROLE / ALT / ABILTYFUCK mutherfuckr, and are perhaps scared of the consequences if the CF comes out...you slippery twat.
Hence not wanting people to look too much into scum roles that people "CF" as.

fuck your "caution"...this is what i see when i read your statement.
And in fact your argument here again leads credence to that same supiscion.
I again feel you might have a scummy looking role.

and looking at YOUR last line...when i say CF i mean all CF's not just "THE" final CF.

[Kilava]

im tired of arguing the same point over and over... thats how i feel, deal with it.

[Karosis]

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

im tired of arguing the same point over and over... thats how i feel, deal with it.

You make a very good point in the post above.

[Monok Ochem]

What I'm trying to reason out is why the Jester would have to be lynched 3 times. It makes sense at first glance (3 lives, 3 deaths, win!), but then thinking about the Jester's first role, Jesus, it becomes obvious that the Jester was a Jester when killed and thus people will not want to waste lynches on him in the future.

This all means that
1) The Jester would have to avoid being identified in the role switch to manage getting another lynch
2) The Jester would have to be suspicious enough to garner subsequent lynches without being probed by the more terminal day/night kill.

Now I agree that it seems silly for the Jester to have such a difficult winning conditions (1 NK = loss? ). I actually think that somehow the Jester is still in the game, without having to rely on the recruitment mechanic. That would in my mind justify an unspoken role switch between Bek and Ay, such that Eloth doesn't want to be lynched and Aranatha does, and thus it is in both their interests to appear as the other player (hence Bek's sullen cryptic responses).

All that being said, I think that the question of Eloth's allegiances is a big question. I don't want to run down the clock on a fellow townie, but on the flip side, I don't want to let scum lurk free, especially with roles that power up the longer the player is left alive.

That brings up the question of whether CFs help us in determining factions and the even larger question of why are two teams called scum and two teams called town in a game that more resembles a faction game than a complicated M&P.

So 2nd question 1st: scum and town definitions. Thus far the assumption is small team size and knowledge of fellow team mates are scum traits. This would mean the converse for town. Other scum traits include more chances to NK, recruitment mechanisms, lover connections between killers, etc. Unfortunately all these overlap with faction traits, which is why the waters may not be so crystal clear.

This is where question 1 may help us. We already know that of the non-jester roles given, we have only seen "town" and "faction" roles (I don't think I've seen an explicit scum role, correct me if I am wrong). We also know that people can order their three roles any way they wish.

What if the definition of scum is based on which roles are given to them (hypothetically given a mix of scum and faction roles). This would mean that scum could be identified as such if they CF'd as a scum role. However, if they use faction roles first, such identification becomes difficult.

This role/faction matching makes sense, especially with what we've seen from the jester. It also makes sense why people are part of town or scum instead of factions 1-4.

I would agree that Amp, while urging caution, seems a little suspicious, as if ulterior motives were in play, and warrants further investigation. I also conclude that as such, we don't know whether or not Eloth was scum based merely on his faction role. As such, I am not inclined to lynch Eloth again today. Not a free pass, but I would like to watch him more.... once I figure out who the fuck he is.

[Monok Ochem]

Karosis, on 27 March 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

im tired of arguing the same point over and over... thats how i feel, deal with it.

You make a very good point in the post above.

I think you both have valid points. I think Faction roles tell us nothing of a person's true faction, thus caution is advised in calling a scummy faction role true scum. However, I think that if a person comes up with a M&P scum role, I will consider them scum and vote to eliminate their triune asses from the game.

[Kilava]

Monok Ochem, on 27 March 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

Karosis, on 27 March 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

im tired of arguing the same point over and over... thats how i feel, deal with it.

You make a very good point in the post above.

I think you both have valid points. I think Faction roles tell us nothing of a person's true faction, thus caution is advised in calling a scummy faction role true scum. However, I think that if a person comes up with a M&P scum role, I will consider them scum and vote to eliminate their triune asses from the game.

Exactly...yet ampelas would STILL urge caution, even if someone comes up with a straight up scum role (his own words).
Hence my suspicion.

[Rashan]

So I had some time last night and got caught up to about page 9 of the thread. I'm more than a bit surprised that D'riss wasn't the one that got lynched. He had some pretty scummy posts and then was called out on them and just up and left the thread leaving everything hanging. To me that needs to be further examined. The only reason to not pursue D'riss would be if people think Eloth's alt might contstitue a scum player and we need to follow up on that. The people looking to lynch the Jester are either Idiots or Scum wanting town to waste a lynch.

[Rashan]

Monok Ochem, on 27 March 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

What I'm trying to reason out is why the Jester would have to be lynched 3 times. It makes sense at first glance (3 lives, 3 deaths, win!), but then thinking about the Jester's first role, Jesus, it becomes obvious that the Jester was a Jester when killed and thus people will not want to waste lynches on him in the future.

This all means that
1) The Jester would have to avoid being identified in the role switch to manage getting another lynch
2) The Jester would have to be suspicious enough to garner subsequent lynches without being probed by the more terminal day/night kill.

Now I agree that it seems silly for the Jester to have such a difficult winning conditions (1 NK = loss? ). I actually think that somehow the Jester is still in the game, without having to rely on the recruitment mechanic. That would in my mind justify an unspoken role switch between Bek and Ay, such that Eloth doesn't want to be lynched and Aranatha does, and thus it is in both their interests to appear as the other player (hence Bek's sullen cryptic responses).

All that being said, I think that the question of Eloth's allegiances is a big question. I don't want to run down the clock on a fellow townie, but on the flip side, I don't want to let scum lurk free, especially with roles that power up the longer the player is left alive.

That brings up the question of whether CFs help us in determining factions and the even larger question of why are two teams called scum and two teams called town in a game that more resembles a faction game than a complicated M&P.

So 2nd question 1st: scum and town definitions. Thus far the assumption is small team size and knowledge of fellow team mates are scum traits. This would mean the converse for town. Other scum traits include more chances to NK, recruitment mechanisms, lover connections between killers, etc. Unfortunately all these overlap with faction traits, which is why the waters may not be so crystal clear.

This is where question 1 may help us. We already know that of the non-jester roles given, we have only seen "town" and "faction" roles (I don't think I've seen an explicit scum role, correct me if I am wrong). We also know that people can order their three roles any way they wish.

What if the definition of scum is based on which roles are given to them (hypothetically given a mix of scum and faction roles). This would mean that scum could be identified as such if they CF'd as a scum role. However, if they use faction roles first, such identification becomes difficult.

This role/faction matching makes sense, especially with what we've seen from the jester. It also makes sense why people are part of town or scum instead of factions 1-4.

I would agree that Amp, while urging caution, seems a little suspicious, as if ulterior motives were in play, and warrants further investigation. I also conclude that as such, we don't know whether or not Eloth was scum based merely on his faction role. As such, I am not inclined to lynch Eloth again today. Not a free pass, but I would like to watch him more.... once I figure out who the fuck he is.

Did you ever think that the Jester choose the Jesus role first thinking that if he got lynched everyone would die with him so noone would be able to figure out who he was on the respawn? Seems like a smart strategy to me.

[Rashan]

I personally believe that Ay is the Jester and should therefore be ignored the rest of the game. He's already lost unless PS is lying to us (possible but I don't feel probable). This game already has too much WIFOM already why go and create more. What we should be arguing over is do we think Eloth's role is a scum role or not. If we agree that it is scum then we can go and argue over if Ay or Bok was Eloth and lynch them. Personally I'm not 100% sure that character would be a scum role. I haven't though much on it.

[Karosis]

Rashan rather than focus on the Jester role do you have any input into who is scum or not? You are picking safe subjects to talk about. What do you think on the Amp vote and the Ryll vote?

[Ampelas]

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

im tired of arguing the same point over and over... thats how i feel, deal with it.

Ditto.

[Korlat]

Karosis, on 27 March 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

We will get a CF eventually Kilava, so we will know who is scum eventually. If you really want to see how it works, we could keep on voting one of the alts that have already died and come back. That is a bit mean though, maybe we can spread the lynches out so that everyone loses a life/alt? That is not cut throat enough for me though. If we continued to cull Eloth then we can actually see whether we caught scum, or town. Then from there draw connections and also know what to expect from the first CF.

I've been reading up, trying to follow who thinks who is what and why. But Karosis brings up a very interesting thought that I agree with. We didn't have a blood bath last night. We had 1 lynch and 1 NK. That gives us an opportunity to put somebody down another alt. We know that 2 people died and 2 alts respawned. Occam's Razor time.

I much prefer that to be Eloth because he was looking day 1 scummy. We are still talking about him for the better part of a second day.

Ay claims Jester and states he will die if recruited. I don't suppose anyone has the ability to test that on him?

We know Aranatha was the jester. Day 1 posting times suggest to me that Aranatha > Bek. But I can't understand why Aranatha/Bek would allow Eloth/AyE to claim the jester role. So for now I'm going to go with AyE's reveal and say that he is Aranatha/AyE.

Vote Bek Okhan


Edit: spelling error in name

This post has been edited by Korlat: 27 March 2013 - 03:45 PM

[Ampelas]

Right, I personally have no strong feelings on anyone. I might do a reread sometime tonight if I have the time, but that would already be getting close to deadline (not close close, but seeing as we need a lot of votes to get a lynch, relatively speaking), so I'm going to lay a vote now.

As I said, no strong feelings, so I'm going back to the old "scum hiding somewhere in the middle of post count" tactic. Thus,

Vote Silchas Ruin


Actually, Silchas is Eloth-like in that he has also as much as admitted he has three memorable roles all with abilities - so he could be dangerous.

I agree that we need to reach some kind of consensus on what to do with Eloth (who I think is Bek). I'm also willing to vote Ryllandaras, as I'm curious to see what will come of all of Bendal's aggression there.

I am not willing to waste a vote on the Jester/former Jester, who I believe to be Ay at this present moment.