[Kilava]

Ampelas, on 27 March 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 27 March 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 26 March 2013 - 11:15 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 26 March 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 26 March 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

Nenanda's role strikes me as either scum or serial killer - making sure a death happens during the day no matter what.

Zahska was town in espers though...

I don't think we can think about it that way, though. It would just be a little too easy. Otherwise it would be too easy to say, "Well, that person is town, because that role in a previous game was town, and that person is scum, because that role was scum..." If the number of deaths per day/night stays about as low as we've had thus far, then it would become a little too easy to identify the good/bad guys. Then it just comes down to identifying whether they're in your faction or not. Huh, having written all that and looked over it, you could be on to something too.

I'm not discounting the fact that, just as with Eloth, Nenanda could have been one or the other, but just in the context of this game, it strikes me as more of a scummy role.

Your statement here makes me think you have scum roles and most likely are scum and are trying to make CF's look completely useless.
There are sure to be more than one death a night so full CF's just make things more interesting.
You are trying to sew seeds of doubt about cf's and what they most likely mean if they come up scum in previous games.

Was The Jesus role not a Jester previously?...yes he was...and he is a jester here.
So we already have more proof on the side that CF's are more revealing than simply a name and that roles are not falling far from the preverbal tree.

I know my roles are not conflicting to the previous games...so why are you so adamant to dissuade us to believe that a scum CF wont necessarily mean scum?

Vote Ampelas






still catching up so bare with me and my coffee breath.

And what about roles which were previously in faction games? Are those going to be town or scum? Yeah, not so black and white as you make it out to be, then. You also fail to note that I concede that Silchas could very well have a point.

This is a faction game...i was not talking about faction roles, they are obviously going to appear too.

You seemed to make it out as, If we ever do get an actual straight up scum role then it should not be taken so literally.
And obviously you would concede a little, you wouldn't want to be too obvious with your nay saying now would you?


just calling it as i see it.


If all the alts are completely ambiguous, except the poor jester, then this game is a sham and we are just going to spend the next 6 weeks shooting in the dark, pretending we know what the hell we are talking about.

So wait, wait, help me out here because I'm getting a little confused.

Am I being adamant that we can't trust CFs, or am I conceding that they might be? Because you've now stated both things, so you can see why I would be confused. Poor me.

What I was saying is that we should be careful, and not immediately jump to one or another conclusion unless it really is that straightforward (if someone CFs as what was an RI role, for instance). In the case of Isabelle Paix, which is what I was discussing at the time, it is clearly not so straightforward. I would argue that it's not as simple in the case of Nenanda either.

However, I concede (!! ) that you bring up a good point in the Jester being a previous Jester role.

And as for your last line there - pray, how is that different to what we usually do?

My original post (wich you clearly didn read properly as you just saw your ame and went into full defensive mode) stated that is seems as if you might have a role or two that is scummy and that you want to sow doubt over any scummy roles that might appear in the event your CF comes out.

It makes sense for you not to be too obvious about making us doubt CF validity.....so you "conceded" just to make yourself...perhaps...less obvious.
But you did sow doubt about CF's non the less.

Simple really...no need to confuse your pretty little head there chap.

[Kilava]

Ampelas, on 27 March 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

And as for your last line there - pray, how is that different to what we usually do?

speak for yourself

[Ampelas]

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

My original post (wich you clearly didn read properly as you just saw your ame and went into full defensive mode) stated that is seems as if you might have a role or two that is scummy and that you want to sow doubt over any scummy roles that might appear in the event your CF comes out.

It makes sense for you not to be too obvious about making us doubt CF validity.....so you "conceded" just to make yourself...perhaps...less obvious.
But you did sow doubt about CF's non the less.

Simple really...no need to confuse your pretty little head there chap.

You say I sow doubt, I say that I urge caution. I believe mine is a valid point, especially when you consider how many roles could be coming from not so cut-and-dry faction games.

[Ampelas]

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 27 March 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

And as for your last line there - pray, how is that different to what we usually do?

speak for yourself

As another word of caution for your so-confident self:

Only scum don't operate in the dark this early into a game

[Kilava]

Ampelas, on 27 March 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 27 March 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

And as for your last line there - pray, how is that different to what we usually do?

speak for yourself

As another word of caution for your so-confident self:

Only scum don't operate in the dark this early into a game

oh...i get it.
true

I wasnt referring to that however.

[Kilava]

Ampelas, on 27 March 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

My original post (wich you clearly didn read properly as you just saw your ame and went into full defensive mode) stated that is seems as if you might have a role or two that is scummy and that you want to sow doubt over any scummy roles that might appear in the event your CF comes out.

It makes sense for you not to be too obvious about making us doubt CF validity.....so you "conceded" just to make yourself...perhaps...less obvious.
But you did sow doubt about CF's non the less.

Simple really...no need to confuse your pretty little head there chap.

You say I sow doubt, I say that I urge caution. I believe mine is a valid point, especially when you consider how many roles could be coming from not so cut-and-dry faction games.

More like I say you flat out stated, that if someone CF's as a scum role in the previous mafia game, that we should not believe it to automatically be scum.

I think to myself then?...why bother with a CF at all then?
And then think to myslef, why does this poor chap say this? He says this without much proof to the contrary?, as if perhaps to pre-emptively sow doubt on the entire concept of the CF in this game. Perhaps he has a scum CF...shame....poor him.

Thats what i think to myself.

simples

I tell you what... If someone CF's as scum, and we deduce who he is the next day, I PROMISE to very "cautious" for you.....just before i vote to lynch him again. ok with you?

[Bendal Home]

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I'm convinced that Ay is lying, and I feel that the only reason to try and convince us that he is The Jester and "harmless" is because he is scum.

vote Ay

You know all about lying don't you.

[Kilava]

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I'm convinced that Ay is lying, and I feel that the only reason to try and convince us that he is The Jester and "harmless" is because he is scum.


vote Ay

Could you explain in a single post why you are convinced....i must have missed the reasoning somewhere?

it it only because you dont believe the jester returned for his second alt?

[Ay Estos]

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I'm convinced that Ay is lying, and I feel that the only reason to try and convince us that he is The Jester and "harmless" is because he is scum.

vote Ay

Remember how Eloth was all pissy about how half his team were the ones who more or less started his lynch train?

Path-Shaper, on 26 March 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

Day 1 ended with 3 hours and 21 minutes remaining

28 Players still alive: Ampelas, Aranatha, Bendal Home, D'riss, Demelain, Denesmet, Desra, Eloth, Fanderay, Galayn Lord, Karosis, Kilava, Korbas, Korlat, Liosan, Mockra, Monok Ochem, Nenanda, Omtose, Prazec Goul, Rashan, Ryllandaras, Silchas Ruin, Skintick, Tellan, Trake, Tulas Shorn, Ultama

15 votes to lynch, 14 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for D'riss ( Ultama )
3 Votes for Ryllandaras ( Bendal Home, Nenanda, Monok Ochem )
1 Vote for Tellan ( Prazec Goul )
15 Votes for Eloth ( Ryllandaras, Fanderay, Kilava, Karosis, Ampelas, Liosan, Denesmet, Mockra, Silchas Ruin, Desra, Tellan, Trake, Skintick, Eloth, Demelain )
1 Vote for Fanderay ( Aranatha )

Players not voted: D'riss, Galayn Lord, Korbas, Korlat, Omtose, Rashan, Tulas Shorn

**vote order manually fixed in the above

---snip---

Eloth is dead. She was Isabelle Paix.

Ryllandaras started the train on Eloth yesterday. Wouldn't it be funny if Ryllandaras was one of the people she was talking about? And now Ryllandaras is voting for me cause he thinks I'm still Eloth. Yeah mon, you obviously know what you're doing.

[Korbas]

I'm here and read up.
The pretty obvious thing (imo) is that Bek is in fact Eloth and he just doesn't want another lynch on hm based on yesterday. Also shouldn't we try to keep track of all of those who die and comeback?

Right now it's something like this right?
(If we disregard the probability of Jester having dropped out of game)

Aranatha --> Ay Estos
Nenanda --> ?
Eloth --> Bek Okham
Denesmet --> ?

Edit: forgot Denesmet (?)

This post has been edited by Korbas: 27 March 2013 - 01:57 PM

[Ryllandaras]

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I'm convinced that Ay is lying, and I feel that the only reason to try and convince us that he is The Jester and "harmless" is because he is scum.


vote Ay

Could you explain in a single post why you are convinced....i must have missed the reasoning somewhere?

it it only because you dont believe the jester returned for his second alt?

Aranatha consistently used double quotes and Ay has consistently used single quotes. Ay claims to be Aranatha reborn, so why would he change his writing style?

[Ryllandaras]

Ay Estos, on 27 March 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I'm convinced that Ay is lying, and I feel that the only reason to try and convince us that he is The Jester and "harmless" is because he is scum.

vote Ay

Remember how Eloth was all pissy about how half his team were the ones who more or less started his lynch train?

Path-Shaper, on 26 March 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

Day 1 ended with 3 hours and 21 minutes remaining

28 Players still alive: Ampelas, Aranatha, Bendal Home, D'riss, Demelain, Denesmet, Desra, Eloth, Fanderay, Galayn Lord, Karosis, Kilava, Korbas, Korlat, Liosan, Mockra, Monok Ochem, Nenanda, Omtose, Prazec Goul, Rashan, Ryllandaras, Silchas Ruin, Skintick, Tellan, Trake, Tulas Shorn, Ultama

15 votes to lynch, 14 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for D'riss ( Ultama )
3 Votes for Ryllandaras ( Bendal Home, Nenanda, Monok Ochem )
1 Vote for Tellan ( Prazec Goul )
15 Votes for Eloth ( Ryllandaras, Fanderay, Kilava, Karosis, Ampelas, Liosan, Denesmet, Mockra, Silchas Ruin, Desra, Tellan, Trake, Skintick, Eloth, Demelain )
1 Vote for Fanderay ( Aranatha )

Players not voted: D'riss, Galayn Lord, Korbas, Korlat, Omtose, Rashan, Tulas Shorn

**vote order manually fixed in the above

---snip---

Eloth is dead. She was Isabelle Paix.

Ryllandaras started the train on Eloth yesterday. Wouldn't it be funny if Ryllandaras was one of the people she was talking about? And now Ryllandaras is voting for me cause he thinks I'm still Eloth. Yeah mon, you obviously know what you're doing.

No, I don't think you are Eloth.

[Ryllandaras]

My question to those of you that believe who Ay is... WHY? Have you seen anything in his posts that makes you believe he's telliing the truth?



Edit: Inserted the word who.

This post has been edited by Ryllandaras: 27 March 2013 - 01:59 PM

[Ampelas]

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 27 March 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

My original post (wich you clearly didn read properly as you just saw your ame and went into full defensive mode) stated that is seems as if you might have a role or two that is scummy and that you want to sow doubt over any scummy roles that might appear in the event your CF comes out.

It makes sense for you not to be too obvious about making us doubt CF validity.....so you "conceded" just to make yourself...perhaps...less obvious.
But you did sow doubt about CF's non the less.

Simple really...no need to confuse your pretty little head there chap.

You say I sow doubt, I say that I urge caution. I believe mine is a valid point, especially when you consider how many roles could be coming from not so cut-and-dry faction games.

More like I say you flat out stated, that if someone CF's as a scum role in the previous mafia game, that we should not believe it to automatically be scum.

I think to myself then?...why bother with a CF at all then?
And then think to myslef, why does this poor chap say this? He says this without much proof to the contrary?, as if perhaps to pre-emptively sow doubt on the entire concept of the CF in this game. Perhaps he has a scum CF...shame....poor him.

Thats what i think to myself.

simples

I tell you what... If someone CF's as scum, and we deduce who he is the next day, I PROMISE to very "cautious" for you.....just before i vote to lynch him again. ok with you?

You are missing the point, I hope not wilfully.

You say 'Why bother with a CF?' But look, it's not a full CF, is it? It's an incremental CF. That is, things are being purposefully left out of the first batch of CFs in order to muddy the waters - so yes, these CFs should be looked at from all angles, just like I say. Sometimes, the answer will be obvious, I'm sure. In other cases it won't be. Until we get to the point where CFs beging revealing factions, yes, we should step back and think about them. What is so wrong with that?

Look at your last line there, 'if someone CFs as scum' - well, unfortunately, that won't start happening until the final alts are in play. Until then, we'll have to deduce for ourselves. As I said just above, yes, sometimes that will be obvious. But except for the Jester, it hasn't been thus far with them.

[Korbas]

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

My question to those of you that believe who Ay is... WHY? Have you seen anything in his posts that makes you believe he's telliing the truth?



Edit: Inserted the word who.

I believe Ay is the Jester. why? because too think otherwise would make it too complicated. Occam time for now.

[Tulas Shorn]

I'm having the worst time trying to get read up

[Korbas]

Tulas Shorn, on 27 March 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

I'm having the worst time trying to get read up

It's a pain, sure but It's better than a dead thread. Stop whining!

[Ryllandaras]

Korbas, on 27 March 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

My question to those of you that believe who Ay is... WHY? Have you seen anything in his posts that makes you believe he's telliing the truth?



Edit: Inserted the word who.

I believe Ay is the Jester. why? because too think otherwise would make it too complicated. Occam time for now.

I think this game is meant to be complicated.

[Bendal Home]

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I'm convinced that Ay is lying, and I feel that the only reason to try and convince us that he is The Jester and "harmless" is because he is scum.


vote Ay

Could you explain in a single post why you are convinced....i must have missed the reasoning somewhere?

it it only because you dont believe the jester returned for his second alt?

Aranatha consistently used double quotes and Ay has consistently used single quotes. Ay claims to be Aranatha reborn, so why would he change his writing style?

You signaled Fanderay and keep trying to deny it.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 14 hours and 47 minutes remaining

26 Players still alive: Ampelas, Ay Estos, Bek Okhan, Bendal Home, D'riss, Demelain, Desra, Fanderay, Galayn Lord, Karosis, Kilava, Korbas, Korlat, Liosan, Mockra, Monok Ochem, Omtose, Prazec Goul, Rashan, Ryllandaras, Silchas Ruin, Skintick, Tellan, Trake, Tulas Shorn, Ultama

14 votes to lynch, 13 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Ampelas ( Kilava )
2 Votes for Ay Estos ( Tellan, Ryllandaras )
1 Vote for Ryllandaras ( Bendal Home )

Players not voted: Ampelas, Ay Estos, Bek Okhan, D'riss, Demelain, Desra, Fanderay, Galayn Lord, Karosis, Korbas, Korlat, Liosan, Mockra, Monok Ochem, Omtose, Prazec Goul, Rashan, Silchas Ruin, Skintick, Trake, Tulas Shorn, Ultama