[Path-Shaper]

Skintick, on 27 March 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 27 March 2013 - 03:31 AM, said:

wow, i'm sleep-deprived AND partially drunk. that shoulda been Isabelle Paix

I've got the opposite problem - I'm completely sober, which makes it strangely hard to focus on the game.

Everyone's kind of blurring together.

I recommend a gelato smoothie, with brandy in it. That's waht I was drinking while modding last night

[Bek Okhan]

Monok Ochem, on 27 March 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

How bout you Bek. Care to comment on why you sound more like aranatha, who was expecting a shitty day like the one you currently seem to be experiencing?

I alreay told you: neither confirming nor denying. I bring back to your attention that Aranatha thought voting Eloth was stupid.

Given that, what's the point of me saying anything?


BH thinks I'm Eloth

you seem to think I'mAranatha

Ryl probably thinks i'm Silencer's sock Puppet alt.


Once again, this only matters IF YOU THINK ELOTH WAS SCUM

otherwise, you're best off putting this clusterfuck behind you and doing what town should do--you, know, find scum. and lynch them.



so, I pose the question once again--do we think Isabelle Paix was scum?

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 25 hours and 18 minutes remaining
26 Players still alive: Ampelas, Ay Estos, Bek Okhan, Bendal Home, D'riss, Demelain, Desra, Fanderay, Galayn Lord, Karosis, Kilava, Korbas, Korlat, Liosan, Mockra, Monok Ochem, Omtose, Prazec Goul, Rashan, Ryllandaras, Silchas Ruin, Skintick, Tellan, Trake, Tulas Shorn, Ultama

14 votes to lynch, 13 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Ay Estos ( Tellan )
1 Vote for Ryllandaras ( Bendal Home )

Players not voted: Ampelas, Ay Estos, Bek Okhan, D'riss, Demelain, Desra, Fanderay, Galayn Lord, Karosis, Kilava, Korbas, Korlat, Liosan, Mockra, Monok Ochem, Omtose, Prazec Goul, Rashan, Ryllandaras, Silchas Ruin, Skintick, Trake, Tulas Shorn, Ultama


I am off to bed. Hopefully Shin or Tapper will be on to answer all your bizarre PMs soon!

[Bek Okhan]

I have to start catching up on avsemester's worth of work in the most depressing class in the world.

I'm entertaining the idea of getting belligerently drunk.

[Demelain]

Bek Okhan, on 27 March 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

Monok Ochem, on 27 March 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

How bout you Bek. Care to comment on why you sound more like aranatha, who was expecting a shitty day like the one you currently seem to be experiencing?

I alreay told you: neither confirming nor denying. I bring back to your attention that Aranatha thought voting Eloth was stupid.

Given that, what's the point of me saying anything?


BH thinks I'm Eloth

you seem to think I'mAranatha

Ryl probably thinks i'm Silencer's sock Puppet alt.


Once again, this only matters IF YOU THINK ELOTH WAS SCUM

otherwise, you're best off putting this clusterfuck behind you and doing what town should do--you, know, find scum. and lynch them.



so, I pose the question once again--do we think Isabelle Paix was scum?

No real way of telling with any amount of certainty. The lynches, especially early day lynches, are helpful for finding out info, no matter if the lynch was a good one, or not. I'm not sure if she is scum. We might end up having to find out the hard way.

[Mockra]

Dead thread is dead. Boo.

[Path-Shaper]

Shin, reporting for booty.

Checking PMs now.

[Kilava]

Ampelas, on 26 March 2013 - 11:15 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 26 March 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 26 March 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

Nenanda's role strikes me as either scum or serial killer - making sure a death happens during the day no matter what.

Zahska was town in espers though...

I don't think we can think about it that way, though. It would just be a little too easy. Otherwise it would be too easy to say, "Well, that person is town, because that role in a previous game was town, and that person is scum, because that role was scum..." If the number of deaths per day/night stays about as low as we've had thus far, then it would become a little too easy to identify the good/bad guys. Then it just comes down to identifying whether they're in your faction or not. Huh, having written all that and looked over it, you could be on to something too.

I'm not discounting the fact that, just as with Eloth, Nenanda could have been one or the other, but just in the context of this game, it strikes me as more of a scummy role.

Your statement here makes me think you have scum roles and most likely are scum and are trying to make CF's look completely useless.
There are sure to be more than one death a night so full CF's just make things more interesting.
You are trying to sew seeds of doubt about cf's and what they most likely mean if they come up scum in previous games.

Was The Jesus role not a Jester previously?...yes he was...and he is a jester here.
So we already have more proof on the side that CF's are more revealing than simply a name and that roles are not falling far from the preverbal tree.

I know my roles are not conflicting to the previous games...so why are you so adamant to dissuade us to believe that a scum CF wont necessarily mean scum?

Vote Ampelas






still catching up so bare with me and my coffee breath.

[Fanderay]

Finally caught up. You guys sure can talk a lot!

I'm finding this discussion on the relationship between roles and factions very interesting, but I don't think they are hugely helpful. I personally have two roles are tailored for faction games, without a specific reference to either town or scum.

Ampelas, on 26 March 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

Desra, on 26 March 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

Quote

Isabelle Paix – Infiltrator (French) -- Syndicate
Level 0:Spy in the Web: passive. knows the identity of all syndicate players, and their code-names.
Infiltrated: passive. comes up as a spy on finds
Seductress: night only . Limited number of uses (1).[/u] Establish a lover link with a player of your choice (this may be another syndicate player or a spy). You do this by sending a PM containing the players name to the mods, they will inform your target and then get back to you. From there on, you can send each other messages directly, CCing H&M.
Inside Information: day only: send a PM from a lover you have to the Mastermind. Useable any number of times per day, but precludes using other day abilities.
Menage-a-trois: night only. Limited number of uses (1). establish a lover link with a second player of your choice.
Secrets betrayed: Limited number of uses (1). When you receive this ability, send the name of a single player you have a lover relationship with to the mods. You learn all of his abilities and may broadcast them to another player of your choice (does not have to be a lover or syndicate player) upon receiving this ability. This counts as your night/ day action for this phase.
Level 5:Wine in front of me: Day only: kill one of your lovers.

Looks like we might have hit scum. Isabelle was syndicate. And as per the role, possibly we caught them in a goof by revealing that their team was the train starters. Isabelle also knew her entire team, so it stands to reason that Eloth knew his team.

Edit: Tried to fix formatting issues.

I think it means Eloth is town, actually. My reasoning is that I think scum teams are much smaller than town teams, but as a consequence they probably all know each other (within their own teams, I mean). Therefore, they don't need a specific ability, such as Eloth had.

There is some argument to be made that way in this particular case, because the Spycraft games were faction games, even though there were scum and town elements in there too. On the balance of probabilities, probably scum, but there is enough ambiguity that I wouldn't lynch solely for this reason. Then again, you would have to consider who you think is the original Isabelle. Ay Estos does have some similarities to Eloth's style, but it's my opinion that I too would react with disappointment if PS had announced on thread that I had no chance of winning. While I think it's unlikely that Ay is now completely useless, I think there are elements of truth to what he is saying. The best lies all have an element of truth to them in any case

Also, the final statement contradicts itself. The role PM, plus Eloth's comment, would suggest that Eloth certainly did know all of her teammates, which would suggest scum by the above reasoning.

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

Ok, so I read through Ay's posts and compared them to Eloth and Aranatha. After a couple of reads I found something...

[snip]

I don't think that Ay is either Eloth OR Aranatha. We also havent seen anything indicating that Nenanda activated another alt. I'm not sure how this mechanic could work to activate an alt before we got the death scene, but I don't think that Ay is Eloth or Aranatha.

I found this comment very interesting, although I disagree with the conclusion. It's obvious that Ay cannot be Nenanda, because Nenanda's second role will not respawn until after day ends. However, it also looks to me as if Ay is neither Eloth nor Aranatha. If Ryll had only one example of the quote marks used differently then I would consider it a once off. However, the use of double or single quote marks seems fairly consistent. I think this is something to keep an eye on.

[Path-Shaper]

Tapper is online now, but I am nowhere near caught up.

[Kilava]

Fanderay, on 27 March 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Finally caught up. You guys sure can talk a lot!

I'm finding this discussion on the relationship between roles and factions very interesting, but I don't think they are hugely helpful. I personally have two roles are tailored for faction games, without a specific reference to either town or scum.

which makes sense since this is essentially a faction game.

[Prazec Goul]

Hello everyone. Just running through all the stuff now and will post some thoughts in a bit.

The first thing that strikes me though is that we can't really read too much into the numbers of people in the game, with the respawning alts and god knows how many alt manipulating mechanics there probably are out there. I don't trust anyone's speculation about numbers and who is who, because that can easily be very self-serving speculation.

[Kilava]

Prazec Goul, on 27 March 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

Hello everyone. Just running through all the stuff now and will post some thoughts in a bit.

The first thing that strikes me though is that we can't really read too much into the numbers of people in the game, with the respawning alts and god knows how many alt manipulating mechanics there probably are out there. I don't trust anyone's speculation about numbers and who is who, because that can easily be very self-serving speculation.

The same thing could be said of anything anyone says in this game...ever.

[Ryllandaras]

Fanderay, on 27 March 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Finally caught up. You guys sure can talk a lot!

I'm finding this discussion on the relationship between roles and factions very interesting, but I don't think they are hugely helpful. I personally have two roles are tailored for faction games, without a specific reference to either town or scum.

Ampelas, on 26 March 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

Desra, on 26 March 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

Quote

Isabelle Paix – Infiltrator (French) -- Syndicate
Level 0:Spy in the Web: passive. knows the identity of all syndicate players, and their code-names.
Infiltrated: passive. comes up as a spy on finds
Seductress: night only . Limited number of uses (1).[/u] Establish a lover link with a player of your choice (this may be another syndicate player or a spy). You do this by sending a PM containing the players name to the mods, they will inform your target and then get back to you. From there on, you can send each other messages directly, CCing H&M.
Inside Information: day only: send a PM from a lover you have to the Mastermind. Useable any number of times per day, but precludes using other day abilities.
Menage-a-trois: night only. Limited number of uses (1). establish a lover link with a second player of your choice.
Secrets betrayed: Limited number of uses (1). When you receive this ability, send the name of a single player you have a lover relationship with to the mods. You learn all of his abilities and may broadcast them to another player of your choice (does not have to be a lover or syndicate player) upon receiving this ability. This counts as your night/ day action for this phase.
Level 5:Wine in front of me: Day only: kill one of your lovers.

Looks like we might have hit scum. Isabelle was syndicate. And as per the role, possibly we caught them in a goof by revealing that their team was the train starters. Isabelle also knew her entire team, so it stands to reason that Eloth knew his team.

Edit: Tried to fix formatting issues.

I think it means Eloth is town, actually. My reasoning is that I think scum teams are much smaller than town teams, but as a consequence they probably all know each other (within their own teams, I mean). Therefore, they don't need a specific ability, such as Eloth had.

There is some argument to be made that way in this particular case, because the Spycraft games were faction games, even though there were scum and town elements in there too. On the balance of probabilities, probably scum, but there is enough ambiguity that I wouldn't lynch solely for this reason. Then again, you would have to consider who you think is the original Isabelle. Ay Estos does have some similarities to Eloth's style, but it's my opinion that I too would react with disappointment if PS had announced on thread that I had no chance of winning. While I think it's unlikely that Ay is now completely useless, I think there are elements of truth to what he is saying. The best lies all have an element of truth to them in any case

Also, the final statement contradicts itself. The role PM, plus Eloth's comment, would suggest that Eloth certainly did know all of her teammates, which would suggest scum by the above reasoning.

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

Ok, so I read through Ay's posts and compared them to Eloth and Aranatha. After a couple of reads I found something...

[snip]

I don't think that Ay is either Eloth OR Aranatha. We also havent seen anything indicating that Nenanda activated another alt. I'm not sure how this mechanic could work to activate an alt before we got the death scene, but I don't think that Ay is Eloth or Aranatha.

I found this comment very interesting, although I disagree with the conclusion. It's obvious that Ay cannot be Nenanda, because Nenanda's second role will not respawn until after day ends. However, it also looks to me as if Ay is neither Eloth nor Aranatha. If Ryll had only one example of the quote marks used differently then I would consider it a once off. However, the use of double or single quote marks seems fairly consistent. I think this is something to keep an eye on.

Exactly. I think Jester lost and is out of the game. Period. Ay is someone else. The fact that he's lying so much about it, makes me think that he must be scum.

[Ultama]

Bek Okhan, on 27 March 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

Mockra, on 27 March 2013 - 12:49 AM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 27 March 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

So, you guys are serioously discussing the possibility of twiddling your thumbs and waiting to see if a now-dead alt has a residual power to control lynches?
without even knowing whether or not that power was carried over to this game?


wow, *golf clap*

Hahahaha this post.

Well I now feel certain the Ay Estos isn't lying. Thanks Bek

I'm neither gonna confirm nor deny. I see no merit in stirring up the wifom any further.

With your refusal to confirm or deny Ay's claim, you are just doing that, stirring further wifom. If his claim to be the jester is true, why would you not confirm it? And if his claim is not true and you are the jester, then why would you keep quiet?
But maybe Ay's claim is true and you were formerly Eloth and you are scared that you get lynched second time right away and try to keep the waters muddied to avoid that.

[Kilava]

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Exactly. I think Jester lost and is out of the game. Period. Ay is someone else. The fact that he's lying so much about it, makes me think that he must be scum.

I dont see why the player should be out of the game.
Sure he has lost as the Jester but perhaps he can still win along with another faction somehow.

[Ampelas]

Kilava said:

1364371643[/url]' post='1042530']

Ampelas said:

1364339757[/url]' post='1042437']

Silchas Ruin said:

1364339418[/url]' post='1042427']

Ampelas said:

1364338663[/url]' post='1042420']
Nenanda's role strikes me as either scum or serial killer - making sure a death happens during the day no matter what.

Zahska was town in espers though...

I don't think we can think about it that way, though. It would just be a little too easy. Otherwise it would be too easy to say, "Well, that person is town, because that role in a previous game was town, and that person is scum, because that role was scum..." If the number of deaths per day/night stays about as low as we've had thus far, then it would become a little too easy to identify the good/bad guys. Then it just comes down to identifying whether they're in your faction or not. Huh, having written all that and looked over it, you could be on to something too.

I'm not discounting the fact that, just as with Eloth, Nenanda could have been one or the other, but just in the context of this game, it strikes me as more of a scummy role.

Your statement here makes me think you have scum roles and most likely are scum and are trying to make CF's look completely useless.
There are sure to be more than one death a night so full CF's just make things more interesting.
You are trying to sew seeds of doubt about cf's and what they most likely mean if they come up scum in previous games.

Was The Jesus role not a Jester previously?...yes he was...and he is a jester here.
So we already have more proof on the side that CF's are more revealing than simply a name and that roles are not falling far from the preverbal tree.

I know my roles are not conflicting to the previous games...so why are you so adamant to dissuade us to believe that a scum CF wont necessarily mean scum?

Vote Ampelas






still catching up so bare with me and my coffee breath.

And what about roles which were previously in faction games? Are those going to be town or scum? Yeah, not so black and white as you make it out to be, then. You also fail to note that I concede that Silchas could very well have a point.

[Ryllandaras]

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Exactly. I think Jester lost and is out of the game. Period. Ay is someone else. The fact that he's lying so much about it, makes me think that he must be scum.

I dont see why the player should be out of the game.
Sure he has lost as the Jester but perhaps he can still win along with another faction somehow.

Then that just gives him unlimited chances to win, as an independent or a faction. If he has respawned, then it is as Bek, but I think Bek is likely Eloth. Ay is still someone else.

[Tulas Shorn]

back for today, let me do some catching up

[Kilava]

Ampelas, on 27 March 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Kilava, on 27 March 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 26 March 2013 - 11:15 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 26 March 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 26 March 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

Nenanda's role strikes me as either scum or serial killer - making sure a death happens during the day no matter what.

Zahska was town in espers though...

I don't think we can think about it that way, though. It would just be a little too easy. Otherwise it would be too easy to say, "Well, that person is town, because that role in a previous game was town, and that person is scum, because that role was scum..." If the number of deaths per day/night stays about as low as we've had thus far, then it would become a little too easy to identify the good/bad guys. Then it just comes down to identifying whether they're in your faction or not. Huh, having written all that and looked over it, you could be on to something too.

I'm not discounting the fact that, just as with Eloth, Nenanda could have been one or the other, but just in the context of this game, it strikes me as more of a scummy role.

Your statement here makes me think you have scum roles and most likely are scum and are trying to make CF's look completely useless.
There are sure to be more than one death a night so full CF's just make things more interesting.
You are trying to sew seeds of doubt about cf's and what they most likely mean if they come up scum in previous games.

Was The Jesus role not a Jester previously?...yes he was...and he is a jester here.
So we already have more proof on the side that CF's are more revealing than simply a name and that roles are not falling far from the preverbal tree.

I know my roles are not conflicting to the previous games...so why are you so adamant to dissuade us to believe that a scum CF wont necessarily mean scum?

Vote Ampelas






still catching up so bare with me and my coffee breath.

And what about roles which were previously in faction games? Are those going to be town or scum? Yeah, not so black and white as you make it out to be, then. You also fail to note that I concede that Silchas could very well have a point.

This is a faction game...i was not talking about faction roles, they are obviously going to appear too.

You seemed to make it out as, If we ever do get an actual straight up scum role then it should not be taken so literally.
And obviously you would concede a little, you wouldn't want to be too obvious with your nay saying now would you?


just calling it as i see it.


If all the alts are completely ambiguous, except the poor jester, then this game is a sham and we are just going to spend the next 6 weeks shooting in the dark, pretending we know what the hell we are talking about.