Malazan Empire: A MEMORY OF LIGHT Full Spoiler Discussion Thread - Malazan Empire

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A MEMORY OF LIGHT Full Spoiler Discussion Thread There will be spoilers. Be warned.

#1 User is offline   Werthead 

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:36 AM

Go knock yourselves out.

The major points (spoilered not for spoilers, but for length):

(Not-so) brief overview:
Spoiler

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#2 User is offline   Use Of Weapons 

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:36 PM

Well, I'm done. I laughed, I cried, I shook a fist. But having finished, I'm not sure how I feel. I thought Brandon did an amazing job, but there were a couple of moments in the book where his words choices threw me out of the narrative. Not for long, and not many, but enough to be noticeable.

That said, he did manage the monstrous battle extremely well. Tarmon Gai'don was suitably epic. Some of the thread-tying was a bit perfunctory, but I guess doing everything justice would have meant another book. (15 is nice round number though.)

Spoiler


That's my initial reaction, anyway. Having only just set the book down 5 minutes ago, it's probably just too raw. Will need a another pass to sort everything.

This post has been edited by Abyss: 19 January 2013 - 05:29 PM

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#3 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:05 AM

Gah, I didn't realize that would be a Malazan spoiler when I clicked on it. ;)

PS—Don't mind me; I have apparently already read that, and I've forgotten it because it's been so long. Anyway,

Spoiler

This post has been edited by Terez: 09 January 2013 - 02:53 AM

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#4 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:56 AM

Lol at Terez's theory that Gawyn kills Rand.

Thanks to Wert for summarizing everything. What happens to Tuon?

This post has been edited by amphibian: 09 January 2013 - 02:57 AM

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#5 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:01 AM

View Postamphibian, on 09 January 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

Lol at Terez's theory that Gawyn kills Rand.

It was a good theory. And far from the only theory that bit the dust in this book...

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Please proceed, Governor.

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There it is.

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#6 User is offline   Chance 

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:24 AM

Just sat down the book and must say I'm positivly surprised its a good book and fairly satisfying ending. Thought I'd have prefered a few threads handled more interestingly and in some cases much less abruptly then other stuff which gets page on page of battle which don't seem to matter all that much but kill of minor characters.

But my biggest problem was about the battle scenes and the one power. Both in the books and Sanderson/Jordans vision of how the one power would change warfare is jarring much of the time. I can buy near mindless footsoldiers being forced into the same big bunches of easy targets for what is more or less modern artillery but the last battle should probably have looked a bit more like Somme then a medieval battlefield. One could blame it on everyone in command not understanding the weapons in play but really...then they are idiots and imbecills since they have all seen it before.

This post has been edited by Chance: 09 January 2013 - 03:30 AM

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#7 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:48 AM

View PostTerez, on 09 January 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

View Postamphibian, on 09 January 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

Lol at Terez's theory that Gawyn kills Rand.

It was a good theory. And far from the only theory that bit the dust in this book...

It was a fun theory and you put a bunch of work in it. But I still have a mental image of you reading the book and going Damnit in a slightly peeved tone.
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#8 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:49 AM

ha, no I pretty much expected that one to be wrong. I was much more upset about other things, like the VOICE being the Creator, and Rand not actually dying.

PS—When I read the book, I actually read the VOICE thing as being the Dark One, so I was happy about it until after I was done. Rand talking about the Dark One not sensing him just got filed into the all-too-common 'things that make no sense' in the Brandon books. After all, he seemed to sense him well enough in the fang-cave, so it doesn't make sense either way. And the whole dagger thing was pointless. What difference did it make? Absolutely none.

This post has been edited by Terez: 09 January 2013 - 04:54 AM

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump. I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
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#9 User is offline   Imperial Historian 

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:13 PM

Well I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed that, a worthy conclusion to the series. The last battle and those leading up to it were suitably epic, and many of the threads were tied together (I haven't read the previous books for a while, but I suspect a careful reader would have found more events tying together, some bits I read I felt should be more significant, but I couldn't remember the details) I quite liked the fact that not everything was wrapped up, but the body swap at the end was a bit disappointing, it seemed very tacked on to give a happily ever after ending.

The pace of this book especially though just served to highlight how little of consequence was going on in some of the previous books, the whole series could easily have been a few books shorter in my view.
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#10 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:09 PM

The bodyswap scene was the 'last scene' that RJ always said he could have written in 1984. It was foreshadowed in TEOTW:

TEOTW 24, Flight Down the Arinelle said:

A red blur drifted across the mirrors. He spun, trying to catch it, but in every mirror it drifted behind his own image and vanished. Then it was back again, but not as a blur. Ba'alzamon strode across the mirrors, ten thousand Ba'alzamons, searching, crossing and re-crossing the silvery mirrors.

He found himself staring at the reflection of his own face, pale and shivering in the knife-edge cold. Ba'alzamon's image grew behind his, staring at him; not seeing, but staring still. In every mirror, the flames of Ba'alzamon's face raged behind him, enveloping, consuming, merging. He wanted to scream, but his throat was frozen. There was only one face in those endless mirrors. His own face. Ba'alzamon's face. One face.

And again in ACOS:

ACOS 33, A Bath said:

"The viewings?"

She folded her arms and frowned up at him through her lashes. She chewed her lip and frowned at the door. She shook her head and muttered under her breath. At last she said, "There is only one, really. I was exaggerating. I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and... " Her mouth tightened worriedly, and she went on in a very small voice. "I don't know what it means, Rand, except that one of you dies, and one doesn't. I - Why are you grinning? This isn't a joke, Rand. I do not know which of you dies."

But other options were also foreshadowed and I was really hoping he would go for one of the others. I imagine the essence of the scene he always had in mind revolved around the idea that the savior of the world should catch a break; his sacrifice was what he endured leading up to the end. That was pretty much expected by most fans who were paying attention, but the bodyswap theory was pretty widely hated. Don't get me wrong—lots of people supported it, but those who didn't (like me) were pretty emotionally opposed to bodyswap as the solution. Part of the reason I hated it is because it's not a real death; I thought that was a lame cop-out for the four separate prophecies saying he would die. And it was.

This post has been edited by Terez: 09 January 2013 - 04:12 PM

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump. I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
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#11 User is offline   Illuyankas 

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:09 PM

I thought it was pretty good, actually, though everyone literally taking a ticket to have a go at Demandred was funny. And some of the preview quotes were nicely misleading - Roedran's Not Him line I was hoping was Rand reacting to Mat's promotion, Cads's job offer I was expecting to be something going horribly, horribly wrong, etc. I didn't really have a problem with the Creator showing up again, but I liked RAND HAVING THE BIG VOICE SO WHAT DO I KNOW.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
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#12 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:47 PM

So what does happen to Tuon? Or does she die a meaningless and non-descript death alongside Faile as retribution for Crossroads of Twilight?
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#13 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:49 PM

Faile's role in COT was important to AMOL, and she didn't die, thank the gods. I don't think I would have ever been able to forgive RJ for that. We knew Tuon would survive since she was supposed to be the star of the outriggers.

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Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

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#14 User is offline   Baco Xtath 

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:26 AM

I've read no posts because I'm only about 9-10 hrs in to listening to this book but I just had to pop in here and say that I was listening to this today, zoning out and half-assedly browsing at the used book store, when Lan led his "last" charge. I stopped walking standing there, waiting for his demise. Gateways start opening, armies, pour through......you know the rest, and seriously, I nearly yelled "Fuck yeah" in the store. I've listened to a lot of books and few moments have moved me as that one did. Bravo.

Anyway, I'm not going to check back in here until I'm finished (2 weeks max). I have two flyfishing trips to the mountains planned to accompany my listening experience. One this weekend - takes me to about midway through the book, and one next weekend, to finish it off. So pumped about this.
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#15 User is offline   Rhand 

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:31 PM

This might be a stupid question, but why is it such a certainty that the VOICE throughout the book was the Creator and not the Dark One? I just finished the book and haven't read anything but this thread so maybe it's explained somewhere else, but I don't really get it.
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#16 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:35 PM

Not throughout the book. Just before Rand enters the cave. (And in TEOTW.) And that is assumed because Rand was supposedly shielded from being sensed by the Dark One, and he noted when he showed up at the end of the cave that the Dark One was surprised to see him. So then you have to wonder what was going on in the cave. Perhaps Moridin is the man behind the curtain on that one; the area around Shayol Ghul has properties of Tel'aran'rhiod. It bugs me mostly because the VOICE being the Dark One in TEOTW would have been much more interesting, and it seems pointless for the Creator to chime in at all. Perhaps I will get over it one day, but for now it irks me.

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Please proceed, Governor.

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There it is.

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:04 PM

Avoiding reading all other spoilers, but just wanted to pop on-thread to say...

spoilers for Chapter 6

Spoiler

"When the last tree has fallen, and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no." ~Aurora

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#18 User is offline   Illuyankas 

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:43 PM

Oh, and I was also a fan of Moiraine doing literally nothing inside the cave. Does she even try to help save Alanna? Does she even get a dialogue line past appearing at Merrilor?

And while I'm at it, power-wrought weapons kill Darkhounds? Then why was Perrin the only one to kill any pre-Wolfpackalypse? What happened to all the other power-wrought swords and spears being made!?

This post has been edited by Illuyankas: 10 January 2013 - 04:15 PM

Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
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#19 User is offline   Stalker 

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:40 PM

Yeah Illy, that was odd. She only had a few mentions while in there, one from Lanfear/Perrrin, one from Thom, and one when Moridin used Callandor. For all other purposes, it was like she turned into unknown Aes Sedai/crewman #10.


I did really enjoy the book though, and it is nice to finally have my WoT shelf complete. I didn't think the whole book would literally be constant battle, but it was pretty awesome. I would have liked more post last battle POVs to see a more in depth view of what everyone is doing but I'm ok with how it ended.
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#20 User is offline   Eddie Dean 

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:23 PM

Whilst reading the book I was completely absorbed and thought it was amazing. The scenes with Olver, Lan, Egwene (not to mention the others) really had me on the edge of my seat. In retrospect, I realize there were some holes and left me wanting more. The ending didn't conclude it very well imo.

Overall a great book and a great ending to a fantastic series.

This post has been edited by Eddie Dean: 10 January 2013 - 08:28 PM

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