[worry]

I actually feel the same way. As occasionally disappointing as it might have felt to get off-camera stuff, coyness, and anti-climaxes, it was hopefully all for the sake of delayed gratification. I just wouldn't be surprised if ICE in his most screw-the-haters mood decided to go the other route. But he seems nicer than that, so it was just me musing.

I also agree with you that the Wickan ride through the Abyss was super-thrilling, especially on re-read. Was that a mystery-Azath floating around in there or what? Who was that undead dragon, Olar Ethil? Was it some prophecy regarding the Crimson Guard (they do have a silver dragon standard after all)?

[Abyss]

Hey i LOVED the Wickans blasting thru chaos to hammer the Crimson Guard on arrival, but it's not quite the same as a series of linked events that lead to people being in the right place at the right time. The Wickans were never headed there in the first place - they were fleeing the punitive campaign and then abruptly decided that the best way to stop the pursuit was to help the Empress of the people pursuing them - , unlike Fingers and co who were always supposed to grab the Ota' island mages and then link up with the main Guard force against Laseen. Then again, the 'rule of convergence' doesn't have to follow logic or intent when power is involved.

That said, K'azz and co jumping to Korel to assist Shell, Blues and co wasn't that different, but it was more of an aside to the main story on BAB.

[worry]

If that's how you show LOVE, Abyss...if that's how you show love...

[Sinisdar Toste]

like i've mentioned before, the CG feel more wholly ICE's than any other plotline, and like us, i assume he wants their story to end in spectacular fashion. as SE did his Bonehunters and Bridgeburners justice in tCG, so too i expect ICE to do justice to the guard, the vow, and assail.

[Torgan]

So I just finished it and had a couple of questions.

How did the thaumaturgs have access to magic? Towards the end Pon-Lor mentions something about the foreign nature of the Warrens and Holds so they weren't using those and I thought they were more or less the only options in the Malazan universe. They did a lot of freaky physical stuff like the experiments and self control which could be explained away but there were instances of Golan summoning fire to consume the worms, Pon-Lor battling the Circle and oh, that massive ritual.

I was also sort of fuzzy on what happened with Ardata and T'riss, they were sisters so did they somehow join in to one or was Ardata somehow convinced to leave and give up whatever she was holding on to?

Also why did Ardata want Skinner and then K'azz to stand beside her as mate, something to do with their vow but maybe that's part of the mystery still surrounding the Guard's vow.

Quite enjoyed this one after being a bit cool about OST, the Golan/Thorn interplay was good fun and I thought was approaching the Tehol/Bugg chapters in Erikson's books.

[worry]

1) Warrens and Holds are not by a long shot the only sources of magic in this world.

2) I think T'riss "won" whatever went down between them, and Ardata did give up something. Whether that means she had some cathartic epiphany or not is up in the air (and unsatisfyingly so, IMO). The fuzziness is deliberate, and annoying.

3) Well it had something to do with the Vow, and likely something to do with her daughter. Maybe she was seeking a way to keep her young forever, so she wouldn't have to keep manipulating time. In that light though, we should have got some deliberation from somebody about why crazy old Ardata thought the CG vow was superior to the Imass vow (which she clearly did not turn to as an option), why crazy old Ardata felt herself better off than Olar Ethil, and even what it meant to her that when K'azz finally showed up he's an old man, unlike Skinner (and so maybe the Vow wasn't so fine an option after all). In other words, and in tandem with question 2, we're offered nothing about the T'riss/Ardata encounter, what happened there, or why Ardata backed down (and therefore apparently gave up on the Crimson Guard solution she was after).

[IgnatiusKruppe]

Black Company hits the jungle a bit

[IgnatiusKruppe]

IgnatiusKruppe said:

1358714176[/url]' post='1025226']
Black Company hits the jungle a bit

So, MBOTF does mention Azathanis a few times, right? I remember looking it up and being confused that there wasn't any chatter about them..
And wasn't Skinner portrayed as a Jaghut the first time we see him (In ROTCG. Not sure if that was the first time ev0r)
Or when Kyle sees him? Damn I gotta re read and find out why I got that impression

This post has been edited by IgnatiusKruppe: 20 January 2013 - 09:44 PM

[worry]

Builder, the yellow guy in TTH, was referred to as an Azathanai by Gothos. After that, I think they are only mentioned once or twice tangentially in TCG, like Errastas mentioning the language of the Azathanai. There's basically no overt hint of a connection between the Azathanai and the Elder Gods we know and love though, as far as I can tell.

Skinner is never portrayed as a Jaghut, but he does seem to be a ghost out of the past at first sight because he's hallucinating/flashbacking about the old days with the Guard vs. Malazans, and Kyle overhears him.

[Seiko]

IgnatiusKruppe, on 20 January 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

IgnatiusKruppe, on 20 January 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:

Black Company hits the jungle a bit

So, MBOTF does mention Azathanis a few times, right? I remember looking it up and being confused that there wasn't any chatter about them..
And wasn't Skinner portrayed as a Jaghut the first time we see him (In ROTCG. Not sure if that was the first time ev0r)
Or when Kyle sees him? Damn I gotta re read and find out why I got that impression

When Kyle first runs into Skinner, due to his size, he thinks it's one of the things described in his peoples legends, a Jhag. Something like that.

[worry]

Oh yah that too.

[Defiance]

I think the Azathanai are also mentioned prior to Toll the Hounds a few times. I could swear that the name came up once or twice in The Bonehunters, perhaps in one of the poem openings.

[D'rek]

Seiko, on 20 January 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

IgnatiusKruppe, on 20 January 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

IgnatiusKruppe, on 20 January 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:

Black Company hits the jungle a bit

So, MBOTF does mention Azathanis a few times, right? I remember looking it up and being confused that there wasn't any chatter about them..
And wasn't Skinner portrayed as a Jaghut the first time we see him (In ROTCG. Not sure if that was the first time ev0r)
Or when Kyle sees him? Damn I gotta re read and find out why I got that impression

When Kyle first runs into Skinner, due to his size, he thinks it's one of the things described in his peoples legends, a Jhag. Something like that.

Kyle is surprised at how huge he is and thinks he might be Jhag, a legend among his Bael people, but that doesn't mean Skinner necessarily is. It's never brought up again, so Kyle is probably wrong.

Defiance, on 21 January 2013 - 04:09 AM, said:

I think the Azathanai are also mentioned prior to Toll the Hounds a few times. I could swear that the name came up once or twice in The Bonehunters, perhaps in one of the poem openings.

I am pretty sure one of the elder gods/people curses in their name at some point, ie "By the damned Azathanai"

This post has been edited by D'rek: 21 January 2013 - 05:06 AM

[Defiance]

I'll have to flip through the book, but I think it might be Shadowthrone who says it, possibly around the time when he's bitching about how the Nameless Ones keep messing with stuff.

[Salt-Man Z]

Google Books finds two instances of "Azathanai", one each in DoD and TCG.

The one in DoD is from a Yedan POV section in Chapter 18 (where he encounters the Terondai that was seen in FoD) when he recalls a myth of Mother Dark about the birthing of Light where she says, "'Without ground, there can be no sky.' So spoke the Azathanai in the dust of their quarries."

The TCG mention is from an Errastas POV in Chapter 5, where he encounters his chlidren and reflects on them: "Lord and Lady of Chance. In the language of the Azathanai, Oponn."

[Abyss]

Cool. I withdraw my comment re overuse.

[Deck of Dragons]

I've enjoyed all of Ian's books, and this was one of his best! I felt the ending was epic and I like that it points directly to Assail. Like many of you, I especially enjoyed the setting of Jakaruku with it's Mayan-like temples and jungle setting. Kallor is by far one of my fave characters from the series and I especially like his portrayal here!

Personally it does not frustrate me that so many things are unanswered in his books. Yes, I want a killer finale in Assail, but I do not want everything crystallized and explained!

I'm glad that yet again, Blood and Bone is self-contained. While it helps to have read the other ICE/Erickson books, you don't necessarily have to with the Malazan Empire series which gives these books long term readability for me. Except for Gardens of the Moon and Midnight Tides, I don't feel that is possible with the mainline Malazan Book of the Fallen series.

I hope Ian gets to write the Malazan history novellas he hinted at in an older interview!

This post has been edited by Deck of Dragons: 27 September 2013 - 06:04 PM

[Kanese S's]

worry, on 08 January 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

I think on one particular issue I feel the opposite of you: Kallor post-TTH. In that book a) he failed in his gambit for the Throne of Chains (or any other throne available for that matter), b] was forced to slay yet another noble man from antiquity in Orfantal (and Spinnock too as far as he knew), and c) the final curse he laid out was broken with Dragnipur/the release of Draconus. In that light, along with his self-reflection or whatever we can call it, suicide seems like a logical next step for this broken, defeated, possibly now-free wretch. As it turns out, the curse of three Elder God's outlasted the three he gave out. But he never stopped being arrogant, even in TTH.

I think he's gonna do the Assail thing right as long as he goes for at least one or two big climaxes, instead of all anti-climaxes. He's also got no more room to play coy, so if his goal isn't to frustrate all of us out of sheer orneriness, he's gonna deliver some answers.

Indeed. As mentioned in another thread, the Elder Gods were better with wording their curses than Kallor was. He cursed them to suffer various terrible events (mostly), whereas they cursed him to a state of being.

[Tattersail_]

Before reading the thread i'll post my thoughts here. This is quite possibly the worst book in the entire Malazan world that I have read. I don't automatically see the point of any of the plot. I don't care for any of the characters. The best bit of the whole book was the epilogue and I think that could have been the whole story. To be frank it was shit. It could have been so much better as well. I didn't understand what was happening or the point of it all really.

[Abyss]

Tattersail_, on 27 June 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

Before reading the thread i'll post my thoughts here. This is quite possibly the worst book in the entire Malazan world that I have read....

You can start your own thread to slam the book Tatts, instead of redirecting mine, unless you're replying to my views or those in the thread.