[D'rek]

worrywort, on 01 January 2013 - 11:42 PM, said:

Also, add "cyclopean" and "atavistic" to ICE's list of go-to words.

There was one word, something like adamabuth, that came up twice (once as an adjective and once as a noun) that I still have trouble believing is a real word...

[Abyss]

'cyclopean' is one that's always bothered me in any fantasy setting that doesn't involve cyclops... cyclopses... cyclopii... cyclopians....cylons... cyclones... those big one eyed sheep herding dudes from the Odyssey.

[Aptorian]

That's one of the cool things about reading on a kindle. When ever there's a weird word I don't recognize or I am uncertain of, I can simple scroll over it and a small description/definition pops up with a link to an expanded section. I used that function a lot reading Blood and Bones. I love technology.

[worry]

Do SE's Malazans typically wear sandals or boots? It seems I get waaaaaay more sandal imagery from ICE and virtually none from SE, but I might just not have noticed.

[D'rek]

worrywort, on 02 January 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

Do SE's Malazans typically wear sandals or boots? It seems I get waaaaaay more sandal imagery from ICE and virtually none from SE, but I might just not have noticed.

I think SE's malazans wear both, but the Crimson Guard definitely wear a lot of sandals, so that might skew the overall impression.

[Aptorian]

Sour was wearing boots I believe. He has a conversation with Murk about the condition of his feet inside his boots.

[Abyss]

may be a function of location too.
I wouldn't expect someone marching through Raraku to wear the same thing as the same person on Jacuruku.

[HoosierDaddy]

How big is Jacuruku anyways? I got no idea from that map. Supposed to be continent sized, yeah? Like Australia?

[worry]

Everyone in RotCG and SW were wearing sandals too though, even people on the Wall. It was sandalmania up there. The guy's got a thing, I'm telling you. Probably wearing Birkenstocks as we speak, even up there in Alaska if that's where he still is.

re: Jacuruku I got the impression that it wasn't that big, so Australia on its side is probably about right.

[samuraiweasel]

Um Australia is pretty huge dude, maybe not America sized but pretty close.

[worry]

It is?? I know it's bigger than a person, but is it bigger than like 5,000 people??? Or you know what just now occurred to me, should I be comparing it to other continents instead?

[Illuyankas]

Sandals, yes, but were there socks being worn too? This is a vitally important question.

Also Australia is almost exactly as wide as the Moon, which is pretty cool really.

This post has been edited by Illuyankas: 03 January 2013 - 02:19 AM

[Abyss]

Illuyankas, on 03 January 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

Sandals, yes, but were there socks being worn too? ...

'swaddling' iirc.

I don't know exactly what that is but i think it involves rags and straps and possibly baby powder.

[Sinisdar Toste]

i think SE and ICE have a clause in their contracts that says they must use one of the all-time least used words in the english language in each one of their books.

[tiam]

Hunh

im not quite sure what you mean as ive been asleep yet awoken feeling like ive had no rest at all....

[Mentalist]

Finished reading this on the plane today.

I was about a quarter of the way through this when I read Pat's spoiler-free review, where he was majorly dissapointed with it.

I gotta say, I don't share that. I actually feel that this is a much stronger work than OST, because right now the only things I remember from that book are that it's set in Darujhistan, the big Bad tyrant is a mask, and Seguleh get carpet-bombed by the Moranth, while the Malazans cry at the slaughter.

On the other hand, when ICE gets to try his hand at world-building, he shines. I'm not too familiar with the history of Indochina (while for him it's an area of expertise, from what I gathered), but I found the setting utterly believable. it's got the rigidity of a class system taken to the extremes, while it clings to the legitimacy of a "meritocracy", which leads to a ton of bureaucratic absurdities, but it fits nicely into what we know of the world, it doesn't directly contradict anything we knew, and it's unique, fresh, and memorable enough to leave a lasting impression.

With respect to individual storylines: they all worked, more or less. Golan's army was weak, since it was purely exposition, with no real impact on the plot, but it worked to enhance the setting. Saeng and Hanu were consistent, Malazans and CriGs all fit their designated roles, Skinner was....shockingly human? (the Skinner vs clockwork king of the lobster-men fight was awesome, btw). It was like ICE tried to do for Skinner what SE did for Kallor in TtH. Speaking of Kallor, it seemed that all that self-reflection and emotional and suffering and stuff from TtH never happened to him. Back to his old arrogant self, I found the Jatal storyline sadly predictable and it was probably the most annoying one in the book. The other obstinate tool was Osseric, but i've been used to that by now.
QoD v Ardata was a great side-story--esp the whole "Ardata is just refusing to face reality and take up responsibility as a true goddess" part--it fit the story well, as did Celeste's "Himatan is a single entity far more complex than you puny humans" bit.

There are only two negatives to me about the book. One--the pacing. I really found this to be the worst-paced Malaz book of all times (though arguably TTH can be a contender here, if you don't buy the whole "this is a story of a city and all the stories OF the City"-approach). But yes, this is probably the only Malaz book I did not read in a single sitting, or at the very least, wanted to keep on reading. It took about one half to two-thirds of the book for the plot to actually grip me--I suppose that's probably because it's how long it took for the underlying "link to the big picture"--the Circle calling a jade chunk on top of Kallor (again) to come to the fore. Up until that point the story literally seemed to be going nowhere exteremely slowly, and whilst the setting was superb, the meandering of the plot did make put the book down several times and look for something else to do.

Second major gripe with the book--it places immense pressure on ICE for the Assail novel. from Moi, to MT, to TtH, to all the ICE books post NoK--Assail has been teased, without giving anything away. in BnB, we are told explicitly--Assail is where things will be revealed, and shit will get real. I think I won't be the only one who will consider this to be even more anticipated than tCG was, even after that DoD cliffhanger. The Assail book is likely, (whether it's fair or not) to be compared first and foremost to tCG. And that is a huge role to fill. I sincerely hope ICE is up to it, but it's gonna be a tough challenge. And while after SW and now BNB I have no doubts in ICE's abilities as a world-builder, I'm fearfully sceptical of the sheer scope of the story that needs to be told in Assail. I wish him the best of luck, because I want Assail to be the best Malaz book yet, but i can't shake the feelings that it might get crushed under its own hype.

that being said, as far as sheer uniqueness/memorability goes, BNB is up there for me. Possibly even higher than SW, though it's a tough call.

[worry]

I think on one particular issue I feel the opposite of you: Kallor post-TTH. In that book a) he failed in his gambit for the Throne of Chains (or any other throne available for that matter), b] was forced to slay yet another noble man from antiquity in Orfantal (and Spinnock too as far as he knew), and c) the final curse he laid out was broken with Dragnipur/the release of Draconus. In that light, along with his self-reflection or whatever we can call it, suicide seems like a logical next step for this broken, defeated, possibly now-free wretch. As it turns out, the curse of three Elder God's outlasted the three he gave out. But he never stopped being arrogant, even in TTH.

I think he's gonna do the Assail thing right as long as he goes for at least one or two big climaxes, instead of all anti-climaxes. He's also got no more room to play coy, so if his goal isn't to frustrate all of us out of sheer orneriness, he's gonna deliver some answers.

This post has been edited by worrywort: 08 January 2013 - 06:20 AM

[D'rek]

worrywort, on 08 January 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

I think he's gonna do the Assail thing right as long as he goes for at least one or two big climaxes, instead of all anti-climaxes. He's also got no more room to play coy, so if his goal isn't to frustrate all of us out of sheer orneriness, he's gonna deliver some answers.

IMO, RotCG proved that ICE is capable of leading all his storylines into a big, intense convergence that is very well plotted. OST and B&B have both been quite small-scale compared to that, and both have had camera-pans-away or anti-climax moments. So I'm hoping soooo much that ICE basically held back on OST and B&B on purpose because they coincide with TCG, and will make Assail explode gloriously.

Trust in ICE, trust in ICE...

[Abyss]

D, on 08 January 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

... RotCG proved that ICE is capable of leading all his storylines into a big, intense convergence that is very well plotted. OST and B&B have both been quite small-scale compared to that, and both have had camera-pans-away or anti-climax moments. So I'm hoping soooo much that ICE basically held back on OST and B&B on purpose because they coincide with TCG, and will make Assail explode gloriously.

Trust in ICE, trust in ICE...

ICE hasn't dissappointed me yet.

That said, i'll note that the big massive kabom finish of RCG required not one but two sets of characters (the Wickans and the Otataral island group) to engage in wild last second risky rides across the warrens to be there at the appropriate time. In contrast, in SW, OST and BAB the plotlines didn't rerquire that kind of last second move across continents for the characters to be where they had to be, either because the stories linked up logically, or didn't have to.

Now all that aside, with BAB ICE has reunited the divided Crimson Guard and set them on a path towards something he (and SE) have been building towards since the absolute beginning. My faith is unshaken.

[D'rek]

Abyss, on 08 January 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

D, on 08 January 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

... RotCG proved that ICE is capable of leading all his storylines into a big, intense convergence that is very well plotted. OST and B&B have both been quite small-scale compared to that, and both have had camera-pans-away or anti-climax moments. So I'm hoping soooo much that ICE basically held back on OST and B&B on purpose because they coincide with TCG, and will make Assail explode gloriously.

Trust in ICE, trust in ICE...

ICE hasn't dissappointed me yet.

That said, i'll note that the big massive kabom finish of RCG required not one but two sets of characters (the Wickans and the Otataral island group) to engage in wild last second risky rides across the warrens to be there at the appropriate time. In contrast, in SW, OST and BAB the plotlines didn't rerquire that kind of last second move across continents for the characters to be where they had to be, either because the stories linked up logically, or didn't have to.

The reasoning for Yath and the Wickans to be drawn into the convergence were both good, and the last minute rides via boats and the abyss were both thrilling, so I had no problems with those - it's what convergences are, after all. I'd rather something like the last minute Wickan ride than the author feel it necessary to have extraneous boring scenes of a group walking through the wilderness just so their arrival at the convergence is less unexpected. Which is essentially what happened with Draconus and Ublala in TCG, though thankfully those two were entertaining enough for it not to be tedious. As long as everyone has a decent reason for arriving and/or a bit of set-up, I'm ready for a couple "oh wow, they're here too?!" moments.