[Starling]

Blend, on 06 December 2012 - 02:10 AM, said:

Alright, upon closer inspection, I can say that I'm a little more suspicious of Starling. Day 1, he didn't really participate much - a post asking Tats why he moved away from supicions of EM, then voting for HO cause he was suspicious of the train redirect. I personally thought the case on HO was crap, yesterday, so I wasn't terribly surprised when the train redirected. Venge was certainly acting a bunch more scummy, even if he did CF as inno.

The thing that bothers me, though, is his behaviour for this day. He basically spent the entire day trying to paint Tats as a symp. He votes Shin, accusing him of having redirected the train, when there was like a triple cross post (which, admittedly, I was a part of) that all moved the train from HO to Venge, and pushing the idea that Tats is Shin's symp. When Shin rebuffs the accusations, he backs off from the Shin attack, but maintains his suspicions of Tats being a symp. I think that Starling is, in fact, the symp, and that he's trying to paint Tats as a symp so that we'll disregard Tats as a possible killer, or that we'll let him slide thinking that he's a symp, so there's no point in voting him off.

I know this jives with my earlier statement about Tats not being dumb enough to kill someone as obviously linked to him as KL was, but, I dunno, Starling's behaviour just rubs me the wrong way. For now, I will

vote Tattersail

As I think he's probably being protected by Starling.

I would still be willing to move my vote to Azath, but I think this is at least as solid a case, so I thought I'd put it out there.

I have a couple of things to say about this.

Tatt's behaviour struck me as much more sympish than that of a killer, I feel he is putting himself out there too much, particularly with the amount he was changing his voting, and the way he switched with only 5 hours to go, from someone who was at L-1 to someone who had only a few votes. I never accused Shin of redirecting the lynch, but I did find it odd that as soon as he came on Tatts changed his vote. My vote for Shin was mostly fishing for a reaction, and as Shin's response made sense I removed my vote. I'll vote for Tatts if necessary, but I think it is a waste.

I'd also like to ask you what you found so absolutey scummy about Venge's play, since the whole case against him was that he was "playing too nice". I think there were a bunch of people playing scummier, in particular Gnaw, that no one has so much as blinked at, so I'm a little confused as to how you came to that conclusion.

[Blend]

Well I am pretty sure that I pointed some scummy Venge stuff out, but I will go dig it up for you if you are so lazy.

As for gnaw, I agree with you. Which is why my vote was on him till I switched to Venge. That being said, Gnaw hasn't done anything that has struck me as incredibly scummy today. So give me something concrete beyond Day 1 crap and I will consider it.

[Blend]

Blend, on 04 December 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 03 December 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

After a role like that being a towny is kind of a nice break. I just get to enjoy the show rather then lick my chops at the amount of flesh that I am going to rip off of someones back.

Comments like this are pretty scummy if you ask me. I still think Gnaw's being scummy too. He still never really explained why he dropped a vote with no explanation, and has pretty much ignored any inquiries into that vote. But comments like Venge's up above make me feel quite alright with voting him.

I was pretty disappointed to wake up this morning to see that HO was a L-1 on a completely nothing case when there is some much scummier behaviour out there. I understand the want to lynch someone on principle, specially in an altless game, but come on guys, we could at least TRY to play Mafia.

remove vote
vote Venge

Screw not trying to start a new train. Yes, it looks suspicious, but come on, I'd much rather have a lynch that made a bit of sense, rather than finding out that HO was an inno after a caseless lynch.

Here's an example for you Starling.

[Azathmaster]

Back, see Tats is the main case tied with one on me. Will read up now

Glad the forums back. I had my freest day today but the down forum cut mafia from my schedule.

[Gust Hubb]

Khellendros, on 06 December 2012 - 02:37 AM, said:

Blend, on 06 December 2012 - 02:33 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 06 December 2012 - 02:23 AM, said:

Am I really the only one who genuinely finds the switch from HO a little fishy? He was at L-1.

Still got the blinkers on, eh Khell?

Can you really say that the case against HO was good, and sleep at night?

Yeah sure, a huge train redirection like that is usually suspicious, but when a case is shit, and it's Day 1 and someone like Venge pulls the scummy shit he did, my suspicions get a little assuaged.

So I've got blinkers on and yet you also admit that it could look suspicious? I see...

Venge wasn't scum, ergo he didn't pull any scummy shit - you lot were just retarded

He wasn't scum? How would you know. Inno =/= townie.

[Brujah]

It is Day 2. 8 hours and 38 minutes remaining

11 Players still alive: Azathmaster, Blend, Bubba, EmperorMagus, Gnaw, Gust Hubb, Hiddenone, Khellendros, Shinrei, Starling, Tattersail

6 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

2 Votes for Azathmaster ( Gust Hubb, Khellendros )
1 Vote for Tattersail ( Blend )

Players not voted: Azathmaster, Bubba, EmperorMagus, Gnaw, Hiddenone, Shinrei, Starling, Tattersail

[Azathmaster]

I just want to quickly point out about my case:
Since most of your case rests on Blends sympage of me and Khell, and the "slip" where he says he's waiting for me and Khell to decide where to vote, it's possible that Blend is a symp, but is fake-symping Khell and I in order to bring suspicion away from their masters. Who was under pressure day 1? Venge and HO and EM and Gnaw. Venge is dead and Inno, Gnaw "hasn't done anything suspicious day 2" as you said. That leaves EM and HO. They warrant a closer look if we're going to explore all avenues today, whether one, both, or neither are killers.

[Gust Hubb]

Blend, on 06 December 2012 - 01:59 AM, said:

Alright so I don't hate the case against Azath so I will be willing to put my votw there, but I can't say that I love it either.

I think that Tats pointing out that the KL nk was meant to make him look bad when no one else even hinted at that is a little suspect, like maybe he is trying to turn us away from that before someone else picks up on it. But I can totally see that as scum trying to point us at him, specially given that KL's vote was on him at the end of the day, if I am not mistaken. Seems like the kind of mistake Tats wouldn't make.

Gust and HO's recent back and forth kind of struck me as a little like distancing. Like, HO says something a little innocuous about Gust and Gust calls him out on it. Am interested to see where that goes.

I also feel like Starling hasn't really been involved in anything much at all, I think maybe he is trying to lie low. Gonna go read up a bit more to see what contributions he has actually made, if I don't find anything interesting I think I will probably vote that way.

I agree that preemptive covering for one's potential mistakes (as Tats did) is suspicious. I do remember him doing that in other games though, so I ned more to convince me. However, in some ways, Tats is hard to read. He always spams, always looks scummy, always tries to shake things up on day 1. It's his MO. So to say that any of those are evidence enough to lynch him is weak and cliched.

The thing with Tat's is you need to look for a mistake. He talks a lot, so he does make slip ups that give him away. If you find and prod one of these slip ups, he often gives more away. I'll take a much closer look at his summary (which he asked if my summary was scummy since scum make lists; kind of ironic if you ask me) which should be a wealth of information.

As for your distancing comment, I am definitely trying to avoid HO's kissy face. Why he has chosen to warm up to me as opposed to other players is odd. His behavior is so sympish, I am tempted to call it a caricature.

So what I'm really wondering is HO trying to shield himself by tagging along with me or is he using such a tried and true method to get me in the spotlight. What's odd is a real symp wouldn't do such a thing to their killer master (at least not in their right mind), but rather this is a tactic used by townies trying to glean information or killers trying to steer the thread.


Starling is still lying low (a lazily so) and Gnaw is still posting mostly crap.

I do love seeing you and Khells turning vehemently on Azath. Pretty strong reactions for those supposedly unrelated.

[Gust Hubb]

Azathmaster, on 06 December 2012 - 04:02 AM, said:

I just want to quickly point out about my case:
Since most of your case rests on Blends sympage of me and Khell, and the "slip" where he says he's waiting for me and Khell to decide where to vote, it's possible that Blend is a symp, but is fake-symping Khell and I in order to bring suspicion away from their masters. Who was under pressure day 1? Venge and HO and EM and Gnaw. Venge is dead and Inno, Gnaw "hasn't done anything suspicious day 2" as you said. That leaves EM and HO. They warrant a closer look if we're going to explore all avenues today, whether one, both, or neither are killers.

I must confess that those under pressure on day 1 interest me far less than those who manage to remain free of votes and accusations. What I'm interested in is seeing how Blend explains mentioning your two names in that post (an explanation I have not heard yet afaik). He could have been fake symping you two, but he voted Khells at one point which seems oddly counter to a symp trying to protect their masters. My theory is he put that in as a signal while playing the rest of his game as if you two were nothing sacred/special. It's not like he's particular defensive of you or khells, and he may just vote you off the island Azath. But as I said before, scum do what needs doing, even if it means voting off one of their own to look like town.

[Azathmaster]

I guess when he explains why he did that we'll have a better understanding of the connections that make up the case.

Another possibility, is that iirc, Khell and I were the only two players without a vote down at all, and so maybe blend thought no one else would change votes and wanted to see where the undecided players stood and how the numbers would go before voting.

Lastly, why are you interested in me because I haven't gotten any votes yet? Khell I understand because he always has a vote or two on him, but I've rarely had votes on me in any game

[Starling]

Blend, on 06 December 2012 - 03:33 AM, said:

Well I am pretty sure that I pointed some scummy Venge stuff out, but I will go dig it up for you if you are so lazy.

As for gnaw, I agree with you. Which is why my vote was on him till I switched to Venge. That being said, Gnaw hasn't done anything that has struck me as incredibly scummy today. So give me something concrete beyond Day 1 crap and I will consider it.

I can't go back and look at previous days, because the work servers are blocking certain pages. As far as I can see Gnaw has done nothing at all today. Guess his strategy of lurking is paying off for him...

[Azathmaster]

I'm off to bed. Night fellas.

[Starling]

This is ridiculous. I'll be back when I get home and can actually read the thread.

[bubba]

Good to see the forum is back up.

Having caught up, I'm not seeing anything jump out at me. HO seams to be off the hook from yesterdays train. I cant really say if this is good or bad, I'm not really getting a read on him, or anyone else at this point. I was instrumental in getting a townie lynched yesterday so I'm going to hold off on placing any vote.

[Brujah]

It is Day 2. 4 hours and 56 minutes remaining

11 Players still alive: Azathmaster, Blend, Bubba, EmperorMagus, Gnaw, Gust Hubb, Hiddenone, Khellendros, Shinrei, Starling, Tattersail

6 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

2 Votes for Azathmaster ( Gust Hubb, Khellendros )
1 Vote for Tattersail ( Blend )

Players not voted: Azathmaster, Bubba, EmperorMagus, Gnaw, Hiddenone, Shinrei, Starling, Tattersail

[Tattersail_]

Okay notes and thoughts up to and including the first couple of posts today. I have written down post numbers. I will draw conclusions from this at the end.

Post #19 I vote for EM 11.51am (GMT my time)

Quote

Vote EmperorMagus

I think it is obvious he is the killer.

Post #21 He comes on almost straight away, at 11.59am

Quote

What?Why?With What?
Just to fuck with you all,it was just announced that Tehran's offices/universities/schools will be closed tomorrow and the day after that because of air pollution.That is not such a good thing BUT,4 day weekend baby!

To me this appeared like he was lurking but did not have much to say. He is shocked that anyone has voted for him.

Post # 22 King Lear claims Azath is nekkid. A little while later she re iterates her point. Yet Azath does not post.

#23 Khell comes on and votes for HO with his second post. He does not comment on anything from the thread so far. Now I am not 100% sure this is because I have mentioned EM or that KL has fingered Azath as a lurker but it does take the thread on a new direction.

#31 HO mentions Khell being bitter or hung up on the last game.

#33 Blend votes for Khell for past reasons but also mentions that he has placed a joke vote and so have I.

#35 Khell says his vote is not a joke vote, although I thought of it as such. I mean there was no reason to vote for HO this game. For past games sure, but that cannot be a serious reason for voting someone this game without having an element of joking to it.

#39 Venge thinks the EM case andwhat Khell has said have merit. He joke votes Bubba.

#41 I answer Blend by saying that mine is not a joke vote.

#42 I followed Venge's joke vote on Bubba. It was a "vote Fener" moment.

#43 Blend calls me on this, I agree with him partly. I wanted to paint myself scummy so that I was left alone through night and looked a lynch target.

#45 Venge shouts symp at me. Thinks I am symping someone.

#59 Blend mentions both Khell and EM in a post.

#63 I do too.

#64 EM appears. This is the second time this happened on day one. I do not believe it is coincidence.

#77 KL votes for me for being serious and ruining her fun. I believe this the reason for the night kill. I think the killers wanted people to look my way today and that the reason for the kill.

#84 HO mentions I have a high volume of posts, I thought he was taking the piss.

#88 EM defends me somewhat, I don't like when this happens.

#91 HO makes a good point about EM defending both Bubba and I.

#104 Passing mention of Starling and Gusty at this point they have not been very active.

#114 I was first to vote Venge, primary reason to get him involved, get him posting and give him a little bit of pressure.

#124 HO called EM scummy for holding the thread hostage.

#125 EM follows Khells vote on HO.

#133 HO says EM is OMGUSING, I think he could have been following Khell his partner.

#134 Bubba votes Venge based on Venge voting for Bubba, it just so happened my vote was already on Venge taking Venge to two votes.

#138 Gnaw votes Fener then goes. (Venge played Fener last game)

#139 Azath joke votes Gusty

#146 Gnaw dodgy votes HO with no explanation

#148 - 152 People hate on Gnaw's post. Bubba actually removes from Venge and votes that way.

#153 Gnaw explains his vote and his lurker style play and how he disliked HO's scum win. This to me suggests Gnaw is town playing this way on purpose.

#156 Blend votes for Gnaw because he admitted to lurking.

#161 Gusty mentions Khell being quiet and Starling laying low.

#163 Gusty summarises (scum trait?) I agree with his summary. He paints Azath as a likely killer yet votes Shin to get him to participate.

#176 Venge mentions Khell and EM as a possible partnership

#193 Bubba pushes a Venge vote for being too nice.

#194 Gust follows this.

#205 Venge votes HO (doesn't create a case, or give us a lynch worthy target)

#220 Khell links Bubba and Shin as a potential couple.

#226 Starling arrives after a long absence and repeats what others have said. (Gnaw's drive by and something about Gust.) Now there are plenty of people to talk about, she could be signalling here. Especially since Gust mentioned her a few posts back.

#227 I remove my Venge vote. I board the HO train. More wary of Venge at the time but wanted to put pressure on HO.

#231 KL was wrong about me pushing any lynch.

#234 Shin Votes HO

I have in my notes to mention here at this point....

HO has been contributing a lot more this game than any other i've seen him play so far. So i'm happy with his contribution so far.

#238 Khell wants HO to die. He has his blinkers on and is not looking into anyone else.

#242 Starling asks me a question about EM

#245 I answer her.

#247 I vote Venge as he was the scummiest out of the lynch candidates.

#248 Blend also thinks Venge is looking scummy.

#265 Starling votes for HO, she mentions that I only voted for Venge after Shin when I was actually the first Venge vote. It got to me because she said she had read the thread when she obviously hadn't.

#274 EM finds Starlings post off. Yet he then votes for Venge.

#275 Venge creates a scum list. I agree with EM, Khell on it.

#280 Venge votes me.

#286 Azath votes Venge.

#293 Venge re lists list. I still agree with EM and Khell.

#306 Gust does not think EM looks scummy. Or at least questions it with Venge

#343 Khell paints me as a symp, Shin as a potential HO partner. He doesn't like Azath's vote on Venge and says that Gust is not trying.

#344 Bubba and EM both mentioned by Khell

#347 I have been thinking that HO was town but then this post strikes me as scummy. He blames his phone for not voting or being around. Asks what we can learn from the lynch and night kill. Pointless post and scumdar hackles are raised for making an excuse for disappearing on thread. In fact, with him participating when he has been mentioned, refraining from voting and this particular post it makes me think of him a little scummier than what I originally thought. What did you learn from the lynch HO?

#356 Khell stays with wanting to lynch HO.



So there are a couple of cases out there today. I have a good take on some people and not so much with others. I can see where Gust is going with wanting to lynch Azath.

[Tattersail_]

The above post was created by me yesterday morning but then the site crashed. So i'll read up today.

My conclusions from the above post are that Khell and EM look the most suspicious.

My suspicion of Starling was because she didn't read the thread and posted what others posted.

[Tattersail_]

Khellendros, on 05 December 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

This is the second time you have said that I said something which I clearly did not say, Tats.

You said that I have painted you as a symp. Read it again. I said you're doing a great job of IMITATING a symp, much like I did in the previous altless game. Was I a symp then? No. So following through on that thought...

Sigh.

You present that LIST as an objective summary of what has occurred, but it is anything but. A lot of it is do with me supposedly being partnered with EM - a classic case of seeing what you want to see, and you have the gall to say I have blinkers on.

I do, however, like your last point on HO. Obviously.

HO has been contributing more, no doubt as a reaction to last game. Doesn't suddenly mean he's town, however. Though I do understand that I haven't exactly presented a case either. Having said that, I do like my little link between Shinrei and HO. And what an ironic partnership that would be!


Shinrei and HO,

Sitting in a tree,

K-I-L-L-I-N-G

First comes lynch

Then comes murder

Then comes HO with another scum win.

I did not think my post went through so I re posted it. Sorry guys.

I called it how I see it Khell. You can argue over semantics of me looking like a symp or imitating a symp all you want but how can you deny what I have said. I have listed my thoughts with the relevant posts.

[Tattersail_]

Blend, on 06 December 2012 - 01:59 AM, said:

Alright so I don't hate the case against Azath so I will be willing to put my votw there, but I can't say that I love it either.

I think that Tats pointing out that the KL nk was meant to make him look bad when no one else even hinted at that is a little suspect, like maybe he is trying to turn us away from that before someone else picks up on it. But I can totally see that as scum trying to point us at him, specially given that KL's vote was on him at the end of the day, if I am not mistaken. Seems like the kind of mistake Tats wouldn't make.

Gust and HO's recent back and forth kind of struck me as a little like distancing. Like, HO says something a little innocuous about Gust and Gust calls him out on it. Am interested to see where that goes.

I also feel like Starling hasn't really been involved in anything much at all, I think maybe he is trying to lie low. Gonna go read up a bit more to see what contributions he has actually made, if I don't find anything interesting I think I will probably vote that way.

Starling is a she. Not a he. A very beautiful she.

I personally do not have you as scum Blend. If you are you are playing a good game because your posts are making me believe you are trying. The same goes for Gust, I do not have bad feelings towards either of you for now. I'd like a Khell or EM lynch today if not I'd be willing to vote for Azath down to Gusty's case.

[Tattersail_]

Khellendros, on 06 December 2012 - 02:05 AM, said:

I would go for Blend and Gust, actually.

What is this based on?