[Abyss]

movie news with a heavy comics angle....

http://www.newsarama...uture-past.html

The next X-Men flic is DAYS OF FUTURE PAST.... and Stewart and McKellan are back as Chuck and Mags... AND SO ARE MCAVOY AND FASSBENDER!

I'm almost prepared to be excited over this.

[McLovin]

The X-films have not been particularly great but Fassbender and McKellen in the same movie? Set your scenery to chewed!

[QuickTidal]

I'm both excited and trepidatious.

With Vaughn off the direction and Singer back in the X-Fold, I'm conflicted. Singer's track record is decent, but not overwhelmingly good. The first X-Men was pretty standard...while the second one was excellent...bringing back the older versions of the characters are well as the FIRST CLASS younger versions is a GREAT idea especially with the storyline of DAYS OF FUTURE PAST...and I have HIGH hopes...but I'm trying to reign in excitement in case Singer flops it. I hope he doesn't though.

[Use Of Weapons]

Days of Future Past is probably my favourite Xmen storyline, even above the Phoenix saga. And given how Singer TOTALLY OWNED God Loves, Man Kills in X2, I feel a huge wave of fanboy enthusiasm washing over me in the wake of this news. I will now be geeking out on random occasions without apology.

[Abyss]

DoFP was a product of the Claremont years, and was, shockingly, done in 2 issues tho it had impact right up to present day (Rachel) and it's been revisited a million times since.

As a starting point the movie won't even have the same cast... Magneto was barely a footnote in the original story. He's referred to as the reason for certain events and appears in like one 'future' panel iirc, so while i fully expect the movie to play with the 'x-man from the future journeys to the past to stop the mutant holocaust' storyline, i have extremely low expectations for anything seriously resembling the original story, but i am psyched to see how they play it.

[Aptorian]

 Abyss, on 28 November 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

DoFP was a product of the Claremont years, and was, shockingly, done in 2 issues tho it had impact right up to present day (Rachel) and it's been revisited a million times since.

As a starting point the movie won't even have the same cast... Magneto was barely a footnote in the original story. He's referred to as the reason for certain events and appears in like one 'future' panel iirc, so while i fully expect the movie to play with the 'x-man from the future journeys to the past to stop the mutant holocaust' storyline, i have extremely low expectations for anything seriously resembling the original story, but i am psyched to see how they play it.

Yeah, I was going to ask how on earth young Xavier and Magneto would figure into a "Days of Future Past" movie since the events take place in a dystopian future, not bygone era. Unless of course it's 1960s Xavier and Magnus travelling to the year 2000 where Jean Luc Picard and Gandalf are their older selves.

I honestly do not care for the X-men trilogy of films. It was not particularly faithful to the universe, had shitty adaptations of the Marvel stories and X-men 3 particularly still gives me nightmares. I absolutely despised Ian Mckellen (sp?) as Magneto. Yes, he's a good actor, but he's about as terrifying and intimidating as Mr Magoo. I will not welcome back any part of the shitty X-men trilogy influencing a future X-men film.

On the other hand, even if they fuck the movie up completely, it should still mean that we finally, FINALLY! get actual Giant Mutant killing Sentinel Robots stomping around on the big screen fucking shit up. Honestly, I'll pay for opening day tickets if they just give me 15 minutes of Sentinel action scenes. If they recreate the X-men death scenes in their original form I might just buy the blue-ray and marry it, have little blue ray children with it and then leave it for a younger sexier 3D download of it.

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 28 November 2012 - 05:45 PM

[QuickTidal]

 Aptorius, on 28 November 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

I absolutely despised Ian Mckellen (sp?) as Magneto. Yes, he's a good actor, but he's about as terrifying and intimidating as Mr Magoo. I will not welcome back any part of the shitty X-men trilogy influencing a future X-men film.

Dude, what the? I don't even.

If you see Magneto of the comics that way I think you're reading them wrong.

[Aptorian]

 QuickTidal, on 28 November 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

 Aptorius, on 28 November 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

I absolutely despised Ian Mckellen (sp?) as Magneto. Yes, he's a good actor, but he's about as terrifying and intimidating as Mr Magoo. I will not welcome back any part of the shitty X-men trilogy influencing a future X-men film.

Dude, what the? I don't even.

If you see Magneto of the comics that way I think you're reading them wrong.

Magneto?

I haven't read X-men regularly in over a decade, and I realise he has bouts of trying to be a peace loving messiah, but Magneto is a monster. He's emotionally scarred to the point of mental instability, he's so chalk full of hatred and anger that he has been on the verge of destroying the earth multiple times, he's killed millions of people, destroyed nations, crushed armies and he remains one of the most powerful and feared super villains in the Marvel universe. Magneto is a megalomaniac convinced he's killing people for their own good. He's a nazi-hating nazi with a god complex. A person who will at the same time inspire devotion and love and the next kill a man for offending his opinion of the weather that day.

To make a Malazan comparison, Magneto is Dassem Ultor and Hairlock wrapped into one with the magical potential of a pissed off Jaghut Tyrant. If you're telling me you would not be shitting your breaches standing in the presence of a human hating super mutant like Magneto knowing what he's done and can do, well... you're either crazy brave or wide eyed stupid.

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 28 November 2012 - 06:54 PM

[Abyss]

 Aptorius, on 28 November 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

Yeah, I was going to ask how on earth young Xavier and Magneto would figure into a "Days of Future Past" movie since the events take place in a dystopian future, not bygone era. Unless of course it's 1960s Xavier and Magnus travelling to the year 2000 where Jean Luc Picard and Gandalf are their older selves.

Not exactly.
The original DoFP story takes place in the 'present' (at the time the early 80s) with framing scenes and flashforwards to the early 00s.

Xavier is dead in the future sequence, magneto doesn't appear in the 'present' sequence.

So by definition if they're playing with the 60s era First Class and the 90s-00s trilo cast, including Chuck and Mags in both eras, we're already into a way different set-up.

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I honestly do not care for the X-men trilogy of films. It was not particularly faithful to the universe,

We've had this debate before Apt so i won't go over old ground except to note that an adaptation to another media and another era will almost never be 'faithful' to the original.

Quote

I absolutely despised Ian Mckellen (sp?) as Magneto. Yes, he's a good actor, but he's about as terrifying and intimidating as Mr Magoo. I will not welcome back any part of the shitty X-men trilogy influencing a future X-men film.

Comic Mags has been at times full blownm mustache twirling world destroying evil, but he's also been a far more cerebral (pun intended), civilized, subtle character, and back when i read floppies he was always more interesting as the latter, not the former. I thought McKellen NAILED that portrayal.

Quote

On the other hand, even if they fuck the movie up completely, it should still mean that we finally, FINALLY! get actual Giant Mutant killing Sentinel Robots stomping around on the big screen fucking shit up. Honestly, I'll pay for opening day tickets if they just give me 15 minutes of Sentinel action scenes.

What, the danger room sequence in XMUnited didn't do it for you? /sarcasm

Quote

If they recreate the X-men death scenes in their original form I might just buy the blue-ray and marry it, have little blue ray children with it and then leave it for a younger sexier 3D download of it.

With you there, but on some level i'm expecting 'shorter' sentinels because the logistics of the massive comics versions may trump movie budget.

[polishgenius]

 QuickTidal, on 28 November 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Dude, what the? I don't even.

If you see Magneto of the comics that way I think you're reading them wrong.

I agree with QT.


Edit to reply to Apt's second post - yes, in the comics Magneto is a powerful and not especially sane person. However he's still also basically a statesman type, attempting to be father figure to the whole mutant race. He's not supposed to be The Joker or even Loki. I think McKellen gets the point across perfectly.

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 28 November 2012 - 06:57 PM

[Aptorian]

[

 Abyss, on 28 November 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

Quote

On the other hand, even if they fuck the movie up completely, it should still mean that we finally, FINALLY! get actual Giant Mutant killing Sentinel Robots stomping around on the big screen fucking shit up. Honestly, I'll pay for opening day tickets if they just give me 15 minutes of Sentinel action scenes.

What, the danger room sequence in XMUnited didn't do it for you? /sarcasm

That was such a cock tease. It's actually probably the real reason I hate the third movie so much. Would it have hurt them to just put in half a dozen sentinels surrounding the island standing in the water? I watched that intro with the Sentinel in shadow and it got me super pumped and then we got shitty dark phoenix and flying anti-mutant needles.

 Abyss, on 28 November 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

Quote

If they recreate the X-men death scenes in their original form I might just buy the blue-ray and marry it, have little blue ray children with it and then leave it for a younger sexier 3D download of it.

With you there, but on some level i'm expecting 'shorter' sentinels because the logistics of the massive comics versions may trump movie budget.

Who not both! You're thinking those "human-size" Bastion robots then? I guess they could work but why even bother then? Might as well use the Ultron project as a storyline. The whole allure of the Sentinels is that they are huge. Capital HUGE. It's what makes them so intimidating. They tower over the citizens and make them cover in their shadow as their inhuman gaze scans a crowd for a rogue mutant.

 polishgenius, on 28 November 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 28 November 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Dude, what the? I don't even.

If you see Magneto of the comics that way I think you're reading them wrong.

I agree with QT.


Edit o reply to Apt's second post - yes, in the comics Magneto is a powerful and not especially sane person. However he's still also basically a statesman type, attempting to be father figure to the whole mutant race. He's not supposed to be The Joker or even Loki. I think McKellen gets the point across perfectly.

True, like Abyss also mentioned, Magneto has different roles he can play, but there's still a certain look and expression you expect from the character. Magneto, doesn't need to look like fabio on steroids, but his mere presence should still be formidable. Not some old fart in a cape. I had the same reaction when I saw Anthony Hopkins in the Thor movie. Yes, these two actors, McKellen and Hopkins are great character actors, they can be quite imposing, but none of them are suitable for the role of these Marvel powerhouses. Walking, talking demi-gods. Not old men who you can hardly imagine walking up a flight of stairs with out getting winded, let alone kick the combined ass of the worlds super hero elite.

[QuickTidal]

 Aptorius, on 28 November 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

True, like Abyss also mentioned, Magneto has different roles he can play, but there's still a certain look and expression you expect from the character. Magneto, doesn't need to look like fabio on steroids, but his mere presence should still be formidable. Not some old fart in a cape. I had the same reaction when I saw Anthony Hopkins in the Thor movie. Yes, these two actors, McKellen and Hopkins are great character actors, they can be quite imposing, but none of them are suitable for the role of these Marvel powerhouses. Walking, talking demi-gods. Not old men who you can hardly imagine walking up a flight of stairs with out getting winded, let alone kick the combined ass of the worlds super hero elite.

And your issue is an aesthetic one...I'd rather see these PHENOMENAL thespians in thje role, than some buffed up shit who looks the part but can't act his way out of a paper bag.

Movie versions of characters are almost ALWAYS homages...and as such the most important feature is that they do the CHARACTER justice (not the look specifically)....in that vein, both McKellen as Magneto and Hopkins as Odin absolutely NAILED those portrayals...as I care MUCH more about their acting than I do about nitpicking how they look.

I think you are looking for total comic - movie versions which 99% of the world would find ridiculous and unbelievable. Do you know any gigantic, scary, ripped as shit men in their 60's who could play Magneto?

Didn't think so.

[Aptorian]

 QuickTidal, on 28 November 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

 Aptorius, on 28 November 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

True, like Abyss also mentioned, Magneto has different roles he can play, but there's still a certain look and expression you expect from the character. Magneto, doesn't need to look like fabio on steroids, but his mere presence should still be formidable. Not some old fart in a cape. I had the same reaction when I saw Anthony Hopkins in the Thor movie. Yes, these two actors, McKellen and Hopkins are great character actors, they can be quite imposing, but none of them are suitable for the role of these Marvel powerhouses. Walking, talking demi-gods. Not old men who you can hardly imagine walking up a flight of stairs with out getting winded, let alone kick the combined ass of the worlds super hero elite.

And your issue is an aesthetic one...I'd rather see these PHENOMENAL thespians in thje role, than some buffed up shit who looks the part but can't act his way out of a paper bag.

Movie versions of characters are almost ALWAYS homages...and as such the most important feature is that they do the CHARACTER justice (not the look specifically)....in that vein, both McKellen as Magneto and Hopkins as Odin absolutely NAILED those portrayals...as I care MUCH more about their acting than I do about nitpicking how they look.

I think you are looking for total comic - movie versions which 99% of the world would find ridiculous and unbelievable. Do you know any gigantic, scary, ripped as shit men in their 60's who could play Magneto?

Didn't think so.

Like you say I am concerned with the aesthetics, whether you find it important or not, the visual impression the viewer gets when watching the film has an impact upon the reception they have of the finished product. In my case, I've read the comics, so I expect a certain look and a certain feel. Just because he is grey haired and speaks with an old british inflection does not make Ian McKellen Magneto.

Tony Stark has a certain look, Robert Downey Jr. nailed it. So did Hemsworth as Thor. So did Scarlett Johansson as the Black Widow. Now, an important distinction here is that these people do not look exactly like their comic book equivelants, but they fit the description and their so, so acting abilities does the rest. They don't need to be an amazing "thespian" (oohh ladida with the fancy phrases and wavy little fingers all over the place) to get the job done. Using Anthony Hopkins and Ian McKellen for a comic book character role has no other use than to put a famous name on the movie poster so they sell more tickets. It's like shooting sparrows with a canon to butcher a Danish saying. You don't need actors of this Caliber to play a good villain. You need somebody who will own the role and make you believe that you are looking at a super villain, emphasis on the super part.

No, I don't want some 60 year old body builder to play Magneto, we have make-up and CGI for that kind of stuff now a days. I just want a guy with the right stature and energy to pull off the act. I would prefer a no-name guy pulled off the street for all I care so long as he delivers. Take somebody like Bill Nighy... hmm, maybe Jason Isaacs. It's really not about the age, hell, Comic book Magneto has been rejuvinated, what? 3 times now?

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 28 November 2012 - 08:01 PM

[polishgenius]

 QuickTidal, on 28 November 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

I think you are looking for total comic - movie versions which 99% of the world would find ridiculous and unbelievable. Do you know any gigantic, scary, ripped as shit men in their 60's who could play Magneto?

Sylvester Stallone?

[Aptorian]

Fucking Arnold Scwarzenegger! Oh god. Imagine a grey haired Arnold playing Magneto?!! I... I kind of want this now that it has come into my head.

[QuickTidal]

Ew, no. You're nuts Apt.

[Abyss]

 Aptorius, on 28 November 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

[

 Abyss, on 28 November 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

Quote

On the other hand, even if they fuck the movie up completely, it should still mean that we finally, FINALLY! get actual Giant Mutant killing Sentinel Robots stomping around on the big screen fucking shit up. Honestly, I'll pay for opening day tickets if they just give me 15 minutes of Sentinel action scenes.

What, the danger room sequence in XMUnited didn't do it for you? /sarcasm

That was such a cock tease. It's actually probably the real reason I hate the third movie so much. Would it have hurt them to just put in half a dozen sentinels surrounding the island standing in the water? I watched that intro with the Sentinel in shadow and it got me super pumped and then we got shitty dark phoenix and flying anti-mutant needles.

I thought the anti-mutant needles were a nice touch in terms of a real threat, but the Dark Phoenix storyline was hideous and as poorly thought out as Jean's 'death' in the second movie (which was otherwise quite good).

Quote

 Abyss, on 28 November 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

Quote

If they recreate the X-men death scenes in their original form I might just buy the blue-ray and marry it, have little blue ray children with it and then leave it for a younger sexier 3D download of it.

With you there, but on some level i'm expecting 'shorter' sentinels because the logistics of the massive comics versions may trump movie budget.

Who not both! You're thinking those "human-size" Bastion robots then? I guess they could work but why even bother then? Might as well use the Ultron project as a storyline. The whole allure of the Sentinels is that they are huge. Capital HUGE. It's what makes them so intimidating. They tower over the citizens and make them cover in their shadow as their inhuman gaze scans a crowd for a rogue mutant.

Yeah i'm figuring the nanosentinels/biosentries/prime sentinels/OMACs or whatever they call them this week are more likely than the giant massive towering robots.
Those are very much a vestige of 80s Claremont more than anything, and their relative power was always plot-variable.

Quote

 polishgenius, on 28 November 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

... yes, in the comics Magneto is a powerful and not especially sane person. However he's still also basically a statesman type, attempting to be father figure to the whole mutant race. He's not supposed to be The Joker or even Loki. I think McKellen gets the point across perfectly.

True, like Abyss also mentioned, Magneto has different roles he can play, but there's still a certain look and expression you expect from the character. Magneto, doesn't need to look like fabio on steroids, but his mere presence should still be formidable. Not some old fart in a cape.....

 Aptorius, on 28 November 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 28 November 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

..I think you are looking for total comic - movie versions which 99% of the world would find ridiculous and unbelievable. Do you know any gigantic, scary, ripped as shit men in their 60's who could play Magneto?

Didn't think so.

Like you say I am concerned with the aesthetics, whether you find it important or not, the visual impression the viewer gets when watching the film has an impact upon the reception they have of the finished product. In my case, I've read the comics, so I expect a certain look and a certain feel. Just because he is grey haired and speaks with an old british inflection does not make Ian McKellen Magneto.

I'm engaging a certain level of x-geek knowledge here, but the reason comic Mags isn't an old fart in a cape is because he was reduced to child state and then re-aged to his early 40s (and possibly cloned once or twice, i don't quite remember) .... leave that plotline aside (and for a movie you almost have to) and he's a Holocaust survivor and damn well supposed to be an old fart, with or without a cape.

Quote

Tony Stark has a certain look, Robert Downey Jr. nailed it. So did Hemsworth as Thor. So did Scarlett Johansson as the Black Widow. Now, an important distinction here is that these people do not look exactly like their comic book equivelants, but they fit the description and their so, so acting abilities does the rest. They don't need to be an amazing "thespian" (oohh ladida with the fancy phrases and wavy little fingers all over the place) to get the job done.

Downey gave an incredible perfomance that made the audience believe his version of Stark. As an aside, Marvel has made a deliberate effort to have Stark drawn to resemble Downey Jr since he was cast for the first flic. Similarly, if you look back at x-comics around the time the first X-Men flic came out, Wolverine started getting taller.

That aside tho, since any given comic character will look slightly if not extremely different when drawn by any given artist, at root all you need by example for Thor is a big white guy with a blond beard (as opposed to James Bond but that's a different thread...).

Quote

... hell, Comic book Magneto has been rejuvinated, what? 3 times now?

Exactly.

You seem to want the screen version to be the ripped 40something white haired Magneto in the red and purple leotard.
Leotard aside, to get a 40something magneto you either must eject the Holocaust origin, or work in a crazy storyline involving reality-warping mutant de-aging powers, and neither of those options works better than getting Gandalf to do the job.

Which is not say they couldn't get away with some throwaway like...

Xavier: You're looking fine for your age, Erik.
Mags: Why thank you Patrick i've been working out.... um, i mean yes, it's been an interesting couple of years, Charles. Let's fight!

...but that would lose the 97% of the audience who don't know who Mutant Alpha was. And btw, that wasn't even an X-Men story.

[Aptorian]

I repeat, he does not need to be ripped, but he needs to not look like a senior citizen who may or may not be wearing a diaper under his tweed.

A magneto up in the years but a guy you could still imagine being on the march, leading men into battle, standing in front of a crowd and either cowing them or embolding them by his mere presence. A guy who cuts a figure standing in a suit, a man you would think twice about laying hands on just by the way he handles himself.

Just like my criticism of Superman's classic costume, I don't particularly like Magneto's uniform. It's preposterous and more theatrical than what I would expect of the man. I still like his helmet though.

[QuickTidal]

I think we found the root of the issue...Apt is an ageist mutha fucka.

Get 'im!

[Use Of Weapons]

You don't think Ian McKellen has presence? Your opinion is no longer necessary.