[Gintokian]

QuickTidal, on 08 November 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

Gintokian, on 08 November 2018 - 06:13 PM, said:

I mean, some of that sounds pretty good, but just having a "go back in time and fix everything" seems kinda lame to me.


I like the part about the young palpatine & snoke stuff, that would be cool, if the rumours are true about Smith playing him then there could definitely be something to that.

I agree about the time thing...but I have a feeling it was introduced on REBELS intentionally so the movies could use it.

I also think that it would be very difficult for JJ to end the trilogy considering where RJ left it character-wise...without something like this. I could be wrong, and we might be in for ROTJ Redux.

Ugh I hope not, they really didn't set it up well with TLJ to finish the series with one more movie.

JJ did use time travel in the first star trek movie he made and that wasn't too terrible, but just going back and fixing everything would be too much, it would make everything else they've done and sacrificed meaningless.

[worry]

Oh great, they're making another Star Wars movie? Overkill much?

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 08 November 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

...

I also think that it would be very difficult for JJ to end the trilogy considering where RJ left it character-wise...without something like this. I could be wrong, and we might be in for ROTJ Redux.

Nah, they can handwave anything with "Kylo lied. Moving on...".

[Traveller]

Time travel using the world between worlds seems incredibly unlikely.

First of all, the creators of the movies are really reluctant to use material that solely appears in the cartoon series. One tiny appearance of Maul in Solo had a lot of movie-only viewers wondering how the hell he was even alive. I really can't see them taking something as new and different as the concept of the WbWs, and using it to draw back people who didnt like tLJ with the lure of remaking the timeline.

And secondly, the world between is a place most Jedi have only ever accessed through stillness and focus, and used to observe.. not interact. Ezra was only able to enter it physically through the temple, and he learned from Ahsoka that interference was not an option, even if it meant watching Kanan die without intervening. How would they not only introduce all this into a movie for people who know nothing about it, and at the same time make it believable story wise that the lost knowledge of the place becomes suddenly available again to the new characters?
I can't see it happening, realistically.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 08 November 2018 - 08:38 PM

[Gintokian]

Damn BK looks like you may be right, I just couldn't see him cast as a Sith.

Yeah they could do the whole "Kylo lied" thing but that still won't wrap the whole series up nicely, they still have to finish the story off with very little time.

I doubt they'll use the world between worlds because, as Traveller said, it would take too long to explain and people would still think it's a lame way to end it, just time travel and fix everything.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 08 November 2018 - 08:03 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 08 November 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

...

I also think that it would be very difficult for JJ to end the trilogy considering where RJ left it character-wise...without something like this. I could be wrong, and we might be in for ROTJ Redux.

Nah, they can handwave anything with "Kylo lied. Moving on...".

Won’t be enough to sell IX to the general audience

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 08 November 2018 - 09:47 PM, said:

Abyss, on 08 November 2018 - 08:03 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 08 November 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

...

I also think that it would be very difficult for JJ to end the trilogy considering where RJ left it character-wise...without something like this. I could be wrong, and we might be in for ROTJ Redux.

Nah, they can handwave anything with "Kylo lied. Moving on...".

Won't be enough to sell IX to the general audience

Anecdotally, TLJ boxoffice says otherwise. $1.3 billion times.

[Salt-Man Z]

Granted TLJ has its problems, but this narrative that it was a colossal failure that somehow needs to be "fixed" is simultaneously hilarious and also very, very sad.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 08 November 2018 - 10:57 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 08 November 2018 - 09:47 PM, said:

Abyss, on 08 November 2018 - 08:03 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 08 November 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

...

I also think that it would be very difficult for JJ to end the trilogy considering where RJ left it character-wise...without something like this. I could be wrong, and we might be in for ROTJ Redux.

Nah, they can handwave anything with "Kylo lied. Moving on...".

Won't be enough to sell IX to the general audience

Anecdotally, TLJ boxoffice says otherwise. $1.3 billion times.

Did you just use box office pull = widespread enjoyment argument?

Salt-Man Z, on 08 November 2018 - 11:14 PM, said:

Granted TLJ has its problems, but this narrative that it was a colossal failure that somehow needs to be "fixed" is simultaneously hilarious and also very, very sad.

Or maybe people can have strong opinions about a franchise and not be ridluculed or pitied for it...but YMMV.

[worry]

I like to pity without ridicule, because of my morals.

[QuickTidal]

I read that as “murals”....and now I wonder about your Art, worry.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

They're like Banksy meets the Calvin-peeing-on-stuff bumper sticker.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 09 November 2018 - 02:08 AM, said:

Abyss, on 08 November 2018 - 10:57 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 08 November 2018 - 09:47 PM, said:

Abyss, on 08 November 2018 - 08:03 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 08 November 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

...

I also think that it would be very difficult for JJ to end the trilogy considering where RJ left it character-wise...without something like this. I could be wrong, and we might be in for ROTJ Redux.

Nah, they can handwave anything with "Kylo lied. Moving on...".

Won't be enough to sell IX to the general audience

Anecdotally, TLJ boxoffice says otherwise. $1.3 billion times.

Did you just use box office pull = widespread enjoyment argument?

Yes. Because Box office pull = widespread people spent dollars to go see it.
It doesn't matter how many hardcore SW fans scream bloody murder about the (abundant) flaws in the movie, it made more dollars than some small countries see in that time.
Ergo, it was 'successful'. The general audience doesn't really care whether Rey's parents were Skywalkers or two space-meth-heads who sold her for their next fix. They went to see it and they'll go see the next one.

In case you're wondering, I saw in in theatre, thought 2/3rds of the movie was blindingly stupid (everything but maybe 75% of Rey's storyline) and have watched select bits on Netflix multiple times since and have not changed my mind. And i will still go see IX in theater (which, for the record, i did NOT do for III because II made my eyes bleed). I AM the general audience, albeit the slightly geekier portion.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 09 November 2018 - 02:53 PM, said:

Yes. Because Box office pull = widespread people spent dollars to go see it.
It doesn't matter how many hardcore SW fans scream bloody murder about the (abundant) flaws in the movie, it made more dollars than some small countries see in that time.
Ergo, it was 'successful'. The general audience doesn't really care whether Rey's parents were Skywalkers or two space-meth-heads who sold her for their next fix. They went to see it and they'll go see the next one.

I never said it wasn't successful. And I'm not talking about hardcore fans. I'm talking about General Audiences. They will need something more than a ROTJ clone that essentially sets out to redeem Kylo or defeat him to bother. I think that's proven by SOLO's dismal performance (which I've never attributed to TLJ's reception) in that no matter how decent it was, people simply weren't willing to go out and see a prequel about a fan-beloved character (recast)....because meh, why bother? What's so special about it to the General Audience? Answer, nothing.

IX has been touted as a "course correction" from inside Lucasfilm because they are apparently learning that lesson.

JJ already has an uphill battle because his first entry (while solid) was touted by a lot as being a rehash of ANH. And people expect that JJ historically can't "finish" with his other films and TV projects.

That's why I'm saying IX needs to look like something really special and really fresh if General Audiences are going to be coaxed out of post-SOLO lackadaisicalness to go out and see it.

And maybe it will.

Special is not, however, Rey VS Kylo: To Redeem or Not Redeem. Not by a long shot.

Abyss, on 09 November 2018 - 02:53 PM, said:

In case you're wondering, I saw in in theatre, thought 2/3rds of the movie was blindingly stupid (everything but maybe 75% of Rey's storyline) and have watched select bits on Netflix multiple times since and have not changed my mind. And i will still go see IX in theater (which, for the record, i did NOT do for III because II made my eyes bleed). I AM the general audience, albeit the slightly geekier portion.

I don't think I've ever known your opinion about this. So that's cool to note. Also, I'm sad you didn't see ROTS in theatre...as it was really the best of the three prequels for my money, and it was a spectacle on the big screen.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 09 November 2018 - 03:32 PM, said:

... I'm not talking about hardcore fans. I'm talking about General Audiences. They will need something more than a ROTJ clone that essentially sets out to redeem Kylo or defeat him to bother.

...Special is not, however, Rey VS Kylo: To Redeem or Not Redeem. Not by a long shot.

I say that the same audience will show up for nothing more than a by the numbers sf flic that ends with a Kylo and Rey lightsabre duel and flat out mimics the end of JEDI right down to Kylo tossing Snoke or whoever down a big pit.
We'll agree to disagree on this even if you're wrong.
...mind you, if you're interested in an over/under bet on box office take...

Quote

I think that's proven by SOLO's dismal performance (which I've never attributed to TLJ's reception) in that no matter how decent it was, people simply weren't willing to go out and see a prequel about a fan-beloved character (recast)....because meh, why bother? What's so special about it to the General Audience? Answer, nothing.

I haven't seen SOLO yet so i can only speculate that anyone but Harrison Ford playing Han Solo was doomed to failworld, given that Ford had just played the character a few years ago and unlike TLJ, this felt like a forced (pun intended) attempt to cash in on popularity, rather than the next movie in the series.

Quote

Abyss, on 09 November 2018 - 02:53 PM, said:

In case you're wondering, I saw in in theatre, thought 2/3rds of the movie was blindingly stupid (everything but maybe 75% of Rey's storyline) and have watched select bits on Netflix multiple times since and have not changed my mind. And i will still go see IX in theater (which, for the record, i did NOT do for III because II made my eyes bleed). I AM the general audience, albeit the slightly geekier portion.

I don't think I've ever known your opinion about this. So that's cool to note. Also, I'm sad you didn't see ROTS in theatre...as it was really the best of the three prequels for my money, and it was a spectacle on the big screen.

I think we discussed SITH before... i know you liked the spectacle, i can acknowledge portions of it were very pretty to look at... but everything else was just bad. Story acting plot dialogue even the popcorn sucked and YES that WAS the movie's fault!

[QuickTidal]

Traveller, on 08 November 2018 - 08:32 PM, said:

Time travel using the world between worlds seems incredibly unlikely.

Not to belabour the point, but the World Between Worlds (AKA Star Wars closed loop time travel) has surfaced again in the Vader comic, this time settling that there are many 'gates' in the universe to it...not just through the Temple on Lothal...and that a sufficient Force Nexus could help create a new gate.

Vader apparently contemplates finding one to rescue Padme from her fate. Instead he saves an earlier Sith Lord I think.

Anyways. I think they are hitting that hard now for a reason. If it was just a one-off on REBELS, I could buy them leaving it lay....but now that it's shown up as a major plot point in Vader comic...I feel like maybe there is a reason.

Again, I could be totally wrong. But fun to speculate.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 16 November 2018 - 05:14 PM, said:

...Vader apparently contemplates finding one to rescue Padme from her fate. Instead he saves an earlier Sith Lord I think....

I liked him better as a possessed lava flea.

[Traveller]

Interesting that it's getting more attention, especially in Vader. I'd still maintain that books/cartoon series/comics remain ancillary material to the movies though, not the other way around.

Meaning, material from the movies (no matter how absurd) can be backed up or have more depth added through the ancillary material, but so far very little has gone the other way - I can only think of CWs Maul appearing in Solo?

I don't know what the figures are, but the impression I get (and this is just what I've observed) is that the majority of people who go to see the movies are not aware of the content in CWs, Rebels, novels, comics or anything else. If...if they want to introduce the Wbws into movie canon, they're going to have to do it from scratch within the movie. It's doable, I guess. But come on. There were quite a few eyebrows raised by the Rebels audience at the possibility of time travel in the SW universe. It was so well handled though, and deftly done, and the resulting lesson was 'you can't change the past.' But I really just can't see audiences anywhere buying an 'alternative timeline' story at this stage, especially after the mixed reception of tLJ.

Who knows though, this is Abrams we're talking about now. From the look of it, he's mostly interested in making a good movie, but doesn't care much for what should or shouldn't be in a SWs - he leaves the likes of Pablo Hidalgo to fit it all into the canon. I mean, it's taken about 4 novels now to give an account of the transition from the Empire to the New Republic, and the rise of the First Order, because he wasn't interested enough in any of it to put it on screen.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 16 November 2018 - 10:56 PM

[QuickTidal]

Latest rumour is that Episode IX is called SON OF DARKNESS. That seems like it's a weird choice if true, but the report could be mistaken.

(Although it IS JJ, and he DID name a Star Trek movie INTO DARKNESS....soooooooo)

And if the film follows suit with the previous two entires, the teaser trailer should be dropping before X-Mas...(This is later [closer to the film release] than both previous teasers debuted).

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 11 December 2018 - 02:08 PM

[the broken]

Snoke's true identity at last...Anomander Rake!