[worry]

The 'big bad' is the notion that the Force should be monopolized by a few ultrapowerful avatars and knights -- Light and Dark -- who duke it out time and again. The 'big good' is democratization and a more enlightened understanding of what 'balance' in the Force really means.

[QuickTidal]

Nobody has ever “monopolized” the Force, nor does it need “democratizing”. It’s always been democratic, if you wish to use that term.

Are people like Ezra Bridger, Ashoka Tano, and Obi-Wan considered some kind of lucky lottery winners who come from rich family dynasties? They aren’t, but are a few of the most powerful force users ever. Ezra was an orphan who’s parents were nobody special from a backwater world.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 29 March 2018 - 11:43 PM

[worry]

I don't know who any of those people are. Canadian Star Wars podcasters?

Anyway, I was kidding. Episode IX is gonna be light sabre duels half-obscured by lens flares, set to like J.J. Abrams' third favorite Beck song or whatever.

[QuickTidal]

I hope he closes out the trilogy well. We shall see. I like JJ though.

[worry]

Yah me too. I just wanted to make fun of Star Trek 3.

[Traveller]

paran falcon, on 29 March 2018 - 03:56 PM, said:

I still like Rey's character. Could we maybe get some explanation or justification for her level of power for someone with literally 2 lessons in the force under her belt, though?

Back in the Clone Wars, Palpatine instigated a search for 'force sensitive children'. Likewise, the Jedi took in children who showed unusual abilities, to train as Jedi. So depending on their situation, some children showed early signs of force sensitivity; like Anakin couldn't grab a broom, but was able to podrace as he was able to tap into the force to see a short way into the future.

Rey is, at the start, a sensitive like these. Might have helped her in early flying, understanding mechanics intuitively - but nothing to make her overtly aware she had something special.
Until she steals the falcon. In a survival situation, she uses that ability to escape, which comes as a surprise to her too, she seems to believe it's luck.
Same with the doors while rescuing Finn. (Note that she gets the wrong fuses to start with in that situation, she's not infallible) She even says to Finn 'That was lucky'.
Then she gets taken by Ren. The book doesn't mention 'downloading' at all. As she pushed back mentally at Ren, she gets to see his abilities, what he has learned from his training. It 'opens doors' in her head, shows her what she might achieve, and more importantly, makes her believe she can do it too. Her success escaping further reinforces her own belief in herself.

This is what Luke never had. He had ability, was strong with the force, but didn't beleive it. He failed with the blast shield down, as he doubted. He failed lifting the x-wing. He had to learn to let go of his belief that it was all impossible; that was his training, why he was 'too old'. Not because Jedi need years of training, but because a child has no baggage, they are already in a state of belief.

Rey doesn't suddenly gain a load of powers tbat others attained by years of study; she realises and is forcefully shown what she can be, in a very short, hard lesson.

The running theme through the series as far as I see it is that to utilise the force, to unlock potential, is all about letting go, reaching out, feeling through it. Luke and the training remote on the falcon. Luke and the Death Star trench run. Ben tells him, 'Let go.'He closes his eyes, relaxes again, to get his lightsaber on Hoth.

Rey intuitively flys the Falcon like Anakin in a podrace. She learns a LOT about how to potentially use the force from Ren. She gets a surprising and vivid vision from Lukes lightsaber; and then Maz tells her...'. It moves through and surrounds every living thing. Close your eyes... Feel it... The light... it's always been there.'

When Kylo is fighting her, and says she needs a teacher help her learn the ways of the force, she remembers Maz, and closes her eyes. (I'd like to know what the novel says here) But it seems clear that she reaches out. Connects. Then uses what she finds to fight back, completely out-fighting Ren, who doesnt know what hit him. Rey comes into her own... she knows she can do it, and she does, all doubt is gone. Probably when from the moment that saber flies into her hand.

Obi Wan does something similar with Maul. He's hanging there; he focuses - Maul suddenly looks puzzled, as if he's caught a glimpse of what's about to happen, when Obi Wan flips up and over him.

So I don't think the OT or the prequels gave an assertion that jedi training NEEDED years of study or training. The younglings in the temple were taught early to prevent them going astray, to direct them. Being able to use the force isn't suddenly available to 'anyone', but those with force sensitivity can tap into it when say, flying, or fighting, without realising they're using it. To wield it effectively though, one needs to understand how it works, and to unlearn all the things that are telling you things are impossible due to things like gravity etc.

Maz, and also I'd say Chirrut in Rogue 1, are examples of people who have no force ability to actively use, but are still able to focus and reach out, to be aware of it and listen to it, even though they can't 'use' it as a jedi would.

Sorry for long answer... but it is just a response to anyone thinking Rey just magically gained force abilities from nowhere, or that other jedi needed months of specific training to become a jedi. In a way, the true lesson is when not to use the force, when not to fight. The most jedi thing Luke ever did was throw away his lighsaber in front of Palpatine.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 30 March 2018 - 11:27 AM

[worry]

Sam Waterston? Aka a Law & Order marathon?

[Traveller]

Does anyone know where Luke is supposed to have acquired his green saber crystal from in rotj, or if it's even mentioned anywhere?

Just watched Rebels finale again, and seeing Sabine end up with Ezras made me wonder.

I suppose if Luke was back on Tatooine at the beginning of rotj (where that deleted scene took place) he could have found Qui Gons crystal/saber from Obi Wans hut, if he'd hung onto it.

It was the fate of Ezras I was thinking about though. I guess Sabine might still have it.

(Btw that finale is just awesome. Love the looks and knowing that pass between Ezra and Sabine at the end.)

This post has been edited by Traveller: 01 April 2018 - 09:30 PM

[Tsundoku]

Meryl as Leia??? GTFO.

http://www.news.com....9056d8ab6b6bbc2

[Traveller]

It's not even news, it's just a petition.

Great reaction BK, I'm really looking forward to watching it with mine - they're younger but loved tFA, and can't wait to find out what happens next.

[QuickTidal]

Tsundoku, on 02 April 2018 - 04:07 AM, said:

Meryl as Leia??? GTFO.

http://www.news.com....9056d8ab6b6bbc2

To be fair, if ANYONE should (and I'm not saying this is the case) replace Fisher as Leia, it should be Stevie Nicks, who is her utter doppelgänger.

That said, (and who knows how much this can be believed NOW all this time later) Kat Kennedy said (around the time of Fishers' death) that "they would NOT recast her, and swore up and down that Rian Johnson had found a loving way to send her off."...but in hindsight, and considering she lived through the cut of TLJ I saw...that may change.

I would have less issue with another actress replacing her if only because Carrie as an actor...would want the character to finish her arc. I truly believe that. But from what I hear of others....I'm well in the minority on that.

Traveller, on 02 April 2018 - 08:00 AM, said:

Great reaction BK, I'm really looking forward to watching it with mine - they're younger but loved tFA, and can't wait to find out what happens next.

It is good to hear kids getting enjoyment out of TLJ. I only have my 10-year old nephew's reaction to it as measure, and he was sublimely "meh" on it.

[Salt-Man Z]

QuickTidal, on 02 April 2018 - 12:43 PM, said:

It is good to hear kids getting enjoyment out of TLJ. I only have my 10-year old nephew's reaction to it as measure, and he was sublimely "meh" on it.

If anything, I'd think younger kids might find it a bit overlong (I did) but then, my 8- and 12-year-olds liked it a lot...

[QuickTidal]

Salt-Man Z, on 02 April 2018 - 03:10 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 02 April 2018 - 12:43 PM, said:

It is good to hear kids getting enjoyment out of TLJ. I only have my 10-year old nephew's reaction to it as measure, and he was sublimely "meh" on it.

If anything, I'd think younger kids might find it a bit overlong (I did) but then, my 8- and 12-year-olds liked it a lot...

Well that's good to hear.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

https://twitter.com/...103133853065216

[Tsundoku]

Heh, just watched that scene again a few minutes ago. The more I see this movie the more the rare good bits are overwhelmed by (at the very least) the logical flaws. And then there's the continuity inconsistencies ...

I'd call this a 50% film now. I don't regard it as the worst Star Wars film, but it's far from the best. It's just above the prequel trilogy for mine, whereas Rogue One comes in third behind ESB and the original Star Wars (now called A New Hope).

I appreciate some of what they tried to do, but it still largely comes across as the director fucking with it just because he could. "Inversion/subversion of tropes and expectations" is one thing but some of this is just childish and pointless. I find myself agreeing with a significant portion of the wall of italic text posted earlier.

The more iconic the property, the more you have to ensure fucking with the formula has a positive effect. Whoever was the director's minder, I think they need an arsekicking.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 05 April 2018 - 12:26 PM

[QuickTidal]

Tsundoku, on 05 April 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

Rogue One comes in third behind ESB and the original Star Wars (now called A New Hope).

ROGUE ONE really just hits everything with a perfect and deft hand (whether that is the result of Gareth Edwards's, or Tony Gilroy's).

It's a prequel, which can be hard territory to nail without being tied down to continuity issues, and moreover it hits both the nostalgia for the OT (the look, the vibe, the general tone) but does so without shying away from the prequels (both TFA and TLJ act like touch-stoning the prequel era is some plague) and not just the inclusion of prequel era entities like Saw Gerrera, but showing Coruscant, and Mustafar. It does the team cast well. It introduces many different characters, makes us care about them and their plights in individual ways, and then pulls off the “team-up” almost without a hitch. It brings in the notions of the Jedi and the Force but they don’t enter fully into the fray or mess up the narrative being played out.

It’s also a very successful war movie, in a series where the “war” aspect has always felt like this epic, nebulous thing being played out across many planets, ROGUE ONE manages to be the WHERE EAGLES DARE or GUNS OF THE NAVARONE of the Star Wars universe….and not only that but it does it extraordinarily well.

Little things throughout hit my nostalgia button without feeling overwrought or pandering (or fan service-y): The temple at Jedha being a rock shaped like a Jedi with his lightsaber out, the Star Destroyer hanging in the atmosphere above Jedha City, the fleeting glimpses of Coruscant, the Rebel fleet, ect.

And it does all this AND has a pyrrhic victory which makes the stakes in ANH remain what they were, but gives the opening crawl a weight, and a gravitas that can’t be undersold. It’s no longer just yellow words crawling across the stars…now it’s an epitaph for heroes.

THAT was Star Wars to me. And that’s why ROGUE ONE is easily (easily easily easily) the best thing that’s come out of post-Disney buyout GFFA. TFA is great, but it can’t touch RO for balancing on the line between the prequels and the OT and delivering a solid and timeless entry in the series. Rey is fine…Jyn is arguably one of my fave characters in the series now…and Finn is fine, but he can’t touch Cassian for how much I cared about him (which is not a slight on Boyega, but rather those that wrote him in TFA and TLJ). Jyn, Cassian and everyone else on RO stands with Luke, Han and Leia for me.

[acesn8s]

I just got around to watching TLJ this weekend. I agree with Traveller's take on Rey. She doesn't have a moment like Luke's the X-wing is too big to lift. She just "does"...

I really like the fact that they stressed that the Jedi Teachings were a religion. A Jedi Master is a master of the Jedi religion. It doesn't mean that they are the end all, be all to using the Force. Jedi training encompasses so much: diplomacy, awareness of your emotions, dueling, flying, languages, etc. Maybe, being untrained Rey is at a greater risk of being seduced by the Dark side. Maybe, because she is unaware of the magnitude, she can skim closer to the dark side and come away less affected. I look forward to the next movie.

I was bummed to see Luke, a childhood hero of mine reduced to a hermit, much like Yoda, but the fact that he was able to project himself across the galaxy was epic.

I wanted to see more from Finn and Poe... I feel like they are two sides to a Han Solo coin. The impulsive scoundrel, who I believe was merely suppose to support Luke in the original series, left such a mark on us that it took characters to take his place. Hopefully we'll get a better conclusion to their arcs in the last movie.

So, is Phantasma prime for a return or did she go the way of Boba Fett?

[QuickTidal]

acesn8s, on 09 April 2018 - 05:48 PM, said:

reduced to a hermit, much like Yoda

I mean, with the exception that Yoda wasn't a hermit, as both he and Obi-Wan were biding their time with specific Jedi/Light side goals in mind. Obi-Wan was to "watch over Luke" on Tatooine (as Bail Organa was to do with Leia on Alderaan)...and Yoda was waiting for the right time (hiding on a planet and next to a dark side cave that cloaked his presence from Sidious/Emperor Palpatine) to occur when his teaching might be required again (in TESB) of Anakin's offspring.

I don't think TLJ Luke fits into the same category as he has no "goals" to speak of for the light side or the Jedi. He says he went to Ach-to to die and let the Jedi end with him. That's more in line with the hermit than Yoda (or Obi-Wan).

[worry]

Dang, please refrain from stereotyping hermits. They're not all one way.

[QuickTidal]

worry, on 09 April 2018 - 10:07 PM, said:

Dang, please refrain from stereotyping hermits. They're not all one way.

You only say that because you’re one of them hipster hermits.