[Cause]

I want Star wars fan fiction written in the style of Dr Suess and I want it now!

[rant]

It's Crait:

http://www.cnn.com/2...ail_bottomlarge

[QuickTidal]

To the people who liked TLJ so much, I have a query/challenge for you.

How does Ep IX end?

It can only have two outcomes:

1. Kylo Ren is killed, ending the Skywalker bloodline, and resigning the fate of the Skywalker family to "pariah's of the galaxy who never did anything good", and basically showing that neither Anakin, nor Luke or Leia, and now especially Kylo...ever made anything better in the grand scheme of things. One was a hero-turned-mass murderer who is eventually redeemed but not until after all the violence, a son and daughter who effectively amount to nothing, one who tries to restart the light of the Jedi order an fails, and the other attempts to resettle the Republic and also fails, and then the grandson who starts off as a good person, but through (obviously) mismanaged training by his uncle, ends up a mass murderer. Thus ending the line with a whimper.

or

2. Kylo Ren is redeemed, thus repeating the general theme of ROTJ...and ending the new trilogy how the old one ended.

Which of these is REMOTELY palatable? To me neither option is.

My HOPE....my big hope is that somewhere, there is another Skywalker...but it's weak hope as Rian Johnson was intent on wiping the Skywalker line out...and it seems Kathleen Kennedy was fine with that.

[Nevyn]

QuickTidal, on 19 January 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

To the people who liked TLJ so much, I have a query/challenge for you.

How does Ep IX end?

It can only have two outcomes:

1. Kylo Ren is killed, ending the Skywalker bloodline, and resigning the fate of the Skywalker family to "pariah's of the galaxy who never did anything good", and basically showing that neither Anakin, nor Luke or Leia, and now especially Kylo...ever made anything better in the grand scheme of things. One was a hero-turned-mass murderer who is eventually redeemed but not until after all the violence, a son and daughter who effectively amount to nothing, one who tries to restart the light of the Jedi order an fails, and the other attempts to resettle the Republic and also fails, and then the grandson who starts off as a good person, but through (obviously) mismanaged training by his uncle, ends up a mass murderer. Thus ending the line with a whimper.

or

2. Kylo Ren is redeemed, thus repeating the general theme of ROTJ...and ending the new trilogy how the old one ended.

Which of these is REMOTELY palatable? To me neither option is.

My HOPE....my big hope is that somewhere, there is another Skywalker...but it's weak hope as Rian Johnson was intent on wiping the Skywalker line out...and it seems Kathleen Kennedy was fine with that.

Well, I didn't like TLJ. And with JJ running the last movie things could change.

But if Rian did the third movie, it seems what he was pushing towards was.

The first order collapses, less in epic final battle, and more as large scale resistance "arab springs" it (and it works this time), and either Rey and Kylo both die, or you get a weird middle ground where they find "balance" of not being global cops or puritans like old jedi, but not full darkside. Either way you get a new generation of balanced force users , who are also a bit more monkish in their use of the force (less for battle/control, more about symbiosis). Poe spends the movie not blowing things up, and Finn does he darnedest to avoid heroic sacrifices to win battles.

And yeah, that sounds like a shitty anticlimax of an ending.

And some of the above may seem sarcastic. but it really feels like what they are building towards. If the complaints about the Jedi, the temptation of Luke, the dynamic of Kylo/Rey, and all the references to not blowing up one ship, to inspiring resistance not by winning fights, to sacrifice for love not to win etc etc etc are NOT the new direction of the series, they will feel like a huge anachronism. Well, they already do, but worse if bookended by standard SW action.

Plus there is no big bad for Kylo to turn on.

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 19 January 2018 - 04:29 PM

[QuickTidal]

Also, these comics are awesome and spot on:

 e6f7eb5fc870a4354383185448a81524.jpg (95.04K)
Number of downloads: 2

 968f71bf1fd973ad5929f27807d936b9.jpg (81.15K)
Number of downloads: 1

 521a96f4ac890ecf36b4ab2c65d5ff90.jpg (63.67K)
Number of downloads: 1

 6acc528f7204edd391d05c401df2f1b7.jpg (94.12K)
Number of downloads: 1

 9f3763ce95c32d25f4a7b84bdd123a66.jpg (84.78K)
Number of downloads: 1

 97edf1049d75e3d034307eaedaf2f72d.jpg (86.91K)
Number of downloads: 1

[Traveller]

I haven't seen it second time. Still feel a bit numb about it all really.. read a lot of good, soundly written explanations for everything in the film, but I'm still feeling somewhat alienated from it.

We have the last season of Rebels coming up, but knowing how things pan out in the future has even soured my enjoyment of that somewhat. Sigh.

It's a shame as I thought Rogue One hit the target so well. I fear that after TLJ, and the loomimg Solo (disaster) movie, all that promise of well made, individual movies set in the SW universe will be gone.

This post has been edited by T'rav Elar: 19 January 2018 - 04:37 PM

[QuickTidal]

I think I just read the 10th or 11th "explanation" article online from Rian Johnson on why certain things were written how they were in TLJ....and I think it was around the 5th where I thought to myself "If you have to explain THIS many of your singular choices in the film you made...you did't make a very forthcoming or explanatory film"

[Traveller]

I'm just bored of it now. I wanted to come away from it feeling like I'd seen a good solid new entry in the series, and ulitmately I didn't. The choices made may have all the sound logic and reason in the world behind them, but to me they were poor choices.

That's all I guess.

[QuickTidal]

T, on 19 January 2018 - 05:26 PM, said:

I'm just bored of it now. I wanted to come away from it feeling like I'd seen a good solid new entry in the series, and ulitmately I didn't. The choices made may have all the sound logic and reason in the world behind them, but to me they were poor choices.

That's all I guess.

And I mean that's where I sit as well, sadly.

I've actively gone back to the old Expanded Universe as my canon, because it entertained me and despite numerous flaws within it...it was still Star Wars and was still attempting to tell the stories of the Star Wars franchise without stomping down on what came before with a wrecking ball. It was a tonne of authors and creatives working within a loose framework of world building, to tell fun adventure stories.

I'm not sure what TLJ was, but it wasn't an adventure story.

[worry]

I would like to see grief, acceptance, penance, and evolution.

[Traveller]

QuickTidal, on 19 January 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

T, on 19 January 2018 - 05:26 PM, said:

I'm just bored of it now. I wanted to come away from it feeling like I'd seen a good solid new entry in the series, and ulitmately I didn't. The choices made may have all the sound logic and reason in the world behind them, but to me they were poor choices.

That's all I guess.

And I mean that's where I sit as well, sadly.

I've actively gone back to the old Expanded Universe as my canon, because it entertained me and despite numerous flaws within it...it was still Star Wars and was still attempting to tell the stories of the Star Wars franchise without stomping down on what came before with a wrecking ball. It was a tonne of authors and creatives working within a loose framework of world building, to tell fun adventure stories.

I'm not sure what TLJ was, but it wasn't an adventure story.

I think I may have to check out the EU. It's pretty funny that I think we're feeling as fucked over as BK did at the news the EU was no longer canon - and as a result are looking to the EU.

TFA was ok to me, but was waiting on TLJ to 'confirm' how I felt about it. Right now I still can't accept the new ones as a real follow up to the OT. To me they're just one way things could have gone.

If anyone has a good intro/reading order for EU books I think I'd be up for it.

[Traveller]

I'd just be interested to see where it went post rotj I guess, for an alternative take on things. I think I may have read at least one Timothy Zahn, as I remember Thrawn and C..baoth? but not much else.

This post has been edited by T'rav Elar: 19 January 2018 - 10:10 PM

[Slow Ben]

T, on 19 January 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 19 January 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

T, on 19 January 2018 - 05:26 PM, said:

I'm just bored of it now. I wanted to come away from it feeling like I'd seen a good solid new entry in the series, and ulitmately I didn't. The choices made may have all the sound logic and reason in the world behind them, but to me they were poor choices.

That's all I guess.

And I mean that's where I sit as well, sadly.

I've actively gone back to the old Expanded Universe as my canon, because it entertained me and despite numerous flaws within it...it was still Star Wars and was still attempting to tell the stories of the Star Wars franchise without stomping down on what came before with a wrecking ball. It was a tonne of authors and creatives working within a loose framework of world building, to tell fun adventure stories.

I'm not sure what TLJ was, but it wasn't an adventure story.

I think I may have to check out the EU. It's pretty funny that I think we're feeling as fucked over as BK did at the news the EU was no longer canon - and as a result are looking to the EU.

TFA was ok to me, but was waiting on TLJ to 'confirm' how I felt about it. Right now I still can't accept the new ones as a real follow up to the OT. To me they're just one way things could have gone.

If anyone has a good intro/reading order for EU books I think I'd be up for it.

Yep.


And i'd be interested in all of your suggestions on which EU to read as well. And i wont speak for Traveler, but i don't care what era, as long as its good. And i don't give a damn if its canon or not either.

[Traveller]

Slow Ben, on 19 January 2018 - 10:09 PM, said:

T, on 19 January 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 19 January 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

T, on 19 January 2018 - 05:26 PM, said:

I'm just bored of it now. I wanted to come away from it feeling like I'd seen a good solid new entry in the series, and ulitmately I didn't. The choices made may have all the sound logic and reason in the world behind them, but to me they were poor choices.

That's all I guess.

And I mean that's where I sit as well, sadly.

I've actively gone back to the old Expanded Universe as my canon, because it entertained me and despite numerous flaws within it...it was still Star Wars and was still attempting to tell the stories of the Star Wars franchise without stomping down on what came before with a wrecking ball. It was a tonne of authors and creatives working within a loose framework of world building, to tell fun adventure stories.

I'm not sure what TLJ was, but it wasn't an adventure story.

I think I may have to check out the EU. It's pretty funny that I think we're feeling as fucked over as BK did at the news the EU was no longer canon - and as a result are looking to the EU.

TFA was ok to me, but was waiting on TLJ to 'confirm' how I felt about it. Right now I still can't accept the new ones as a real follow up to the OT. To me they're just one way things could have gone.

If anyone has a good intro/reading order for EU books I think I'd be up for it.

Yep.


And i'd be interested in all of your suggestions on which EU to read as well. And i wont speak for Traveler, but i don't care what era, as long as its good. And i don't give a damn if its canon or not either.

Yep, the good ones please!

Also, I was just thinking.. after watching so many well crafted episodes of Clone Wars, and the clever ways Rebels has linked the prequels, clone wars and the OT together - TLJ stands out as it seems to acknowledge absolutely none of this.

This post has been edited by T'rav Elar: 19 January 2018 - 10:20 PM

[QuickTidal]

I would also say that the Zahn trilogy is best read as comics (available digitally on comiXology) as it helps present it like a movie.

[Slow Ben]

Thanks guys!

[QuickTidal]

I'm in as far as the Thrawn trilogy again so far. Gonna work my way through all the best books.

[Silencer]

I just want to say, I find it hilarious how after all that complaining about the people who liked TLJ "shutting down" people who didn't like it, the only ones still talking are the people who hate, and they're constantly trying to tear it down over and over again. >.>


For my part, I saw it a second time in the cinema, still love it, everything it did, and think it's one of the best Star Wars movies yet. Not just a good movie, but a good Star Wars movie. And I think if JJ doesn't fuck it up by trying to retcon it to appease the vocal haters (most of whom seem to have a LOT of vested love for "what Star Wars was" i.e. the EU, just saying) then IX will be about a lot of people coming to terms with themselves, and figuring out that you can't just say "I'm sorry" and be redeemed, but committing to making changes in the long term while accepting that people still might hate you for now. And realising that there is a difference between a pointless sacrifice that would not have helped, and a necessary sacrifice to achieve meaningful, long-term change.

But hey, what do I know of "Star Wars", right?

[Coco with marshmallows]

I've never read a single piece of EU, haven't watched the cartoons, my only knowledge of Star Wars comes from the films and I still thought TLJ was poor.

[Traveller]

Silencer, on 20 January 2018 - 07:29 AM, said:

I just want to say, I find it hilarious how after all that complaining about the people who liked TLJ "shutting down" people who didn't like it, the only ones still talking are the people who hate, and they're constantly trying to tear it down over and over again. >.>

Bit like brexit then from my pov! I've heard little to nothing from all those who voted to leave; it's those who thought and still think it's a total fuckup of an idea that are the vocal group, and as a result are labelled remoaners. Much like anyone who dares suggest tlj could have been better are now just called haters.

As I said, I'll have to see it again. I'm just not optimistic that I'll suddenly think it's better because I've read some explanations behind the story choices.
I mean, for example, Ackbar killed off screen as an aside? How was that good?
And why, after Carrie's death, go to the trouble of including a Leia death scene, only to have her save herself for another movie she will be unable to star in?

This post has been edited by T'rav Elar: 20 January 2018 - 12:10 PM