[blackzoid]

It seems that Mark Hamilll hs some major disagreements over the treatment of Luke Skywalker

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 22 December 2017 - 11:09 AM

[Hocknose]

Tsundoku, on 22 December 2017 - 03:45 AM, said:

This article seems to sum up and attempt to counter some of the fan disappointment here and and on a billion other sites. Thoughts?

http://www.news.com....4acb1a51e55dac0

I watched it for the first time last night, my initial reaction was meh...and after mulling over it last night and this morning I've veered towards pretty disappointed.

This article is pretty good though and has made me question my thoughts a little. I guess I had preconceived expectations and I need to watch it again at some point.

[QuickTidal]

Look, here's there thing. Stepping over the hyperbole.

It's a movie. A fair chunk of the audience either didn't like or outright hate the movie. And on the back of that Disney has Rian releasing statement after statement, interview after interview, explaining bits and pieces and reasonings behind the movie that people have questioned.

IF you have to explain that many things after your movie drops, it's clearly not sitting as well as you'd hoped it would.

And a lot of it now feels like Disney damage control (apparently, they are concerned that the BO numbers have dropped 40% from TFA's numbers 2 years ago) feels the need to run that gamut.

No one is going to change their mind. Or at least not easily.

And the acceptance needs to settle into Lucasfilm that this is not the slam dunk I think they were predicting/expecting after TFA and ROGUE ONE performed so well....but it's still doing AMAZING business, even with the drop from what TFA BO did. It's still liked or loved by an AWFUL lot of people out there, including most people here at these boards who have seen it.

The division between those that didn't like and those that did should not matter to the level it seems to....but after a thousand think pieces about the damned thing, I think one thing is clear. This is a divisive movie. Full stop. It is what it is. Not everything is a guaranteed bankroll like TFA was. And TFA had years of nostalgia riding on it, which I expect bumped the numbers.

But yeah, bottom line is that I think Disney is a LITTLE staggered that this isn't the perfect success they assumed....especially because I hear they all loved the movie when Rian screened it for them.

It is my hope that such "stagger" on their part will allow them to be a BIT more circumspect with IX. But that's just me.

[polishgenius]

QuickTidal, on 22 December 2017 - 01:35 PM, said:

No one is going to change their mind. Or at least not easily.

To be fair, I dunno what percentage it is but I'm seeing loads of people saying they disliked it at first but saw it again and liked it a lot more the second time.

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 22 December 2017 - 02:34 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 22 December 2017 - 01:35 PM, said:

No one is going to change their mind. Or at least not easily.

To be fair, I dunno what percentage it is but I'm seeing loads of people saying they disliked it at first but saw it again and liked it a lot more the second time.

Let's tell that to all the people who told people who hated BvS to see it again.

And yes, I'm going to keep using that as an example as it's PERFECT. Another movie that people rejected because of story notes, expectations, filmic narrative problems, misrepresenting a classic IP character, and pretty much all the same complaints that have been levelled at TLJ by those that disliked it.

And yet, it's REALLY cool to hate the shit out of BvS by most people, even years later...but "how DARE you not like a Star Wars movie, you must be a heathen and we are right to like it and you are wrong to not like it!"

It's just a stunning juxtaposition of the mob mentality from the other side of the coin.

[polishgenius]

I don't really care who likes TLJ or BvS (which I still haven't seen). The only point I'm making is, at least some people are changing their minds.

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 22 December 2017 - 02:43 PM, said:

I don't really care who likes TLJ or BvS (which I still haven't seen). The only point I'm making is, at least some people are changing their minds.

Sure. That's bound to happen. I'll freely admit that.

But I think the notion of "You should see this again to make an opinion" is a non-starter. Some people might have a change of heart after seeing a film again, nine times out of ten though, the first view should be enough...otherwise the director and writer didn't do their job well.

[Silencer]

QuickTidal, on 22 December 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

polishgenius, on 22 December 2017 - 02:43 PM, said:

I don't really care who likes TLJ or BvS (which I still haven't seen). The only point I'm making is, at least some people are changing their minds.

Sure. That's bound to happen. I'll freely admit that.

But I think the notion of "You should see this again to make an opinion" is a non-starter. Some people might have a change of heart after seeing a film again, nine times out of ten though, the first view should be enough...otherwise the director and writer didn't do their job well.

... And you don't see the same juxtaposition in that statement you just made about TLJ compared to BvS?

(As a side note, I have watched BvS 3 times now and it's not changed my opinion of it... But then, I disliked that movie mainly because it's a mess of a bad film, not because of the characters being different to previous versions in same continuity, or the franchise or anything. Plus it wasn't trying to be subversive or defy expectations, and pretty much no one had criticised the previous movie for being too much like a previous version, whereas TFA got that a *lot*.)

It mainly amuses me at this point that your initial thoughts on this film, and my initial thoughts, were almost the same post. You've just gone one way since then and I've gone the other. XD
Hopefully I'll get to watch it again over Christmas and see how I feel after a second viewing.

[rant]

QuickTidal, on 22 December 2017 - 01:35 PM, said:

Look, here's there thing. Stepping over the hyperbole.

It's a movie. A fair chunk of the audience either didn't like or outright hate the movie. And on the back of that Disney has Rian releasing statement after statement, interview after interview, explaining bits and pieces and reasonings behind the movie that people have questioned.

IF you have to explain that many things after your movie drops, it's clearly not sitting as well as you'd hoped it would.

And a lot of it now feels like Disney damage control (apparently, they are concerned that the BO numbers have dropped 40% from TFA's numbers 2 years ago) feels the need to run that gamut.

No one is going to change their mind. Or at least not easily.

And the acceptance needs to settle into Lucasfilm that this is not the slam dunk I think they were predicting/expecting after TFA and ROGUE ONE performed so well....but it's still doing AMAZING business, even with the drop from what TFA BO did. It's still liked or loved by an AWFUL lot of people out there, including most people here at these boards who have seen it.

The division between those that didn't like and those that did should not matter to the level it seems to....but after a thousand think pieces about the damned thing, I think one thing is clear. This is a divisive movie. Full stop. It is what it is. Not everything is a guaranteed bankroll like TFA was. And TFA had years of nostalgia riding on it, which I expect bumped the numbers.

But yeah, bottom line is that I think Disney is a LITTLE staggered that this isn't the perfect success they assumed....especially because I hear they all loved the movie when Rian screened it for them.

It is my hope that such "stagger" on their part will allow them to be a BIT more circumspect with IX. But that's just me.

Off-point:
I feel like there's an extent to which Disney just doesn't know how to deal with Star Wars. I think when they acquired it they believed it would be a finely tuned money making machine like Marvel (not to say it isn't a money making machine), but it's turning into a logistical nightmare. E.G: How many directors have we seen come and go from the Solo film? Add to that a fandom that they can't seem to appease, leading to all the work you describe above.

On-point:
I dunno if they're trying to convince the people who have already seen it, or if they're trying to convince people who have yet to see it. Think about the casual movie goer, who isn't obsessed with Star Wars (I know, hard to imagine...but they must exist lol). They didn't go opening weekend because they were busy or something. They are thinking about seeing a movie this weekend, looking at everything in theatres, and deciding what to see....at least partially based on Rotten Tomatoes etc.

So Disney needs to create a narrative that counters the reality that half the audience didn't like the film....so when people google TLJ, they see the rotten tomatoes score....and 1k think pieces praising it...and decide to see it. Etc.

This is particularly important for the Star Wars property.....because Star Wars apparently doesn't perform well in China.....so their domestic profits are really their only kick at the can.

To counter my own point: I wonder if Disney approaches their properties like Coke etc. approach their drinks.
Basically, coke prefers heavy consumers who drink 9 bottles daily to new customers who may drink 1 bottle.

Whoa! So what if they make the movie divisive on purpose....so that people have to see it multiple times? That's 4d chess right there ( though I doubt it's real lol).

Sorry if this is rambly, I'm the most hung-over person in the world atm.


Off point:
I just realized TLJ has only been out for a week. It feels like way longer lol.

This post has been edited by rant: 22 December 2017 - 03:05 PM

[QuickTidal]

Silencer, on 22 December 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

... And you don't see the same juxtaposition in that statement you just made about TLJ compared to BvS?

(As a side note, I have watched BvS 3 times now and it's not changed my opinion of it... But then, I disliked that movie mainly because it's a mess of a bad film, not because of the characters being different to previous versions in same continuity, or the franchise or anything.

It mainly amuses me at this point that your initial thoughts on this film, and my initial thoughts, were almost the same post. You've just gone one way since then and I've gone the other. XD
Hopefully I'll get to watch it again over Christmas and see how I feel after a second viewing.

See your bolded point.

And see my original complaints about the film when I said I liked it with some glaring issues...a lot of which have to do with THE LAST JEDI being a mess of a bad film too, big gaping plot holes you can drive trucks through, editing problems, MAJOR pacing problems that even my wife noted (and she liked the film), an overabundance of poor CGI during the Canto Bight stuff, poor dialogue AND also some dialogue lifted DIRECTLY from both TESB and ROTJ nearly wholesale, cinematography issues in any scene that wasn't an indoor set (A lot of the Ach-to stuff is either overly bright and washed out, giving it an almost fake look, while other sequences are FAR too dark with no tonal contrast [all of which is Rian's best bud and DOP Steve Yedlin's fault....that guy could not get an outdoor scene lit properly to save his life]....In fact I want Rian Johnson and Steve Yedlin to sit in a classroom with John Seale and Margaret Sixel and be schooled in how to ACTUALLY shoot, edit, and light a film).

I honestly thought that LOOPER's problems in this regard (many of which are the same) were an anomaly...apparently not. This is just how Rian's movies come out.

If Zack Snyder's film is considered a mess...then I can't see how this isn't.

Again, I come back to BLADE RUNNER 2049. A stunningly shot, acted, lit, scored, plotted, and directed long sequel tour de force.

In comparison, this feels so weak to me, and those feelings compound in hindsight as the days pass and more and more glaring issues occur to me.

[HoosierDaddy]

Haters: "Spinning's a good trick!"

Lovers: "I truly, deeply love you."

Everyone else: "Meesa wanna watcha movie!"

[QuickTidal]

[worry]

All I can say is I hope everyone who liked the movie has a Merry Christmas, and everyone who disliked the movie has a Merry Star Wars Holiday Special Christmas.

[Abyss]

Is that you Bea Arthur?

[worry]

Spoiler

[HoosierDaddy]

Hmmmm. New Snoke theories abound, Worry.

[Mezla PigDog]

Just got home from seeing it. Not read the thread. The only thing I can think is "Who insisted on the milking bit making it to the final cut?!" I can't get passed it.

[Traveller]

Mezla PigDog, on 22 December 2017 - 11:22 PM, said:

Just got home from seeing it. Not read the thread. The only thing I can think is "Who insisted on the milking bit making it to the final cut?!" I can't get passed it.

He even had it all in his beard. They couldn't have done a better job of saying 'This isnt the Luke you remember' if they'd had Rey walking in on him banging one of those weird custodians, having him wink at her while he carried on.

[Mezla PigDog]

I was hoping I would sleep on it and come to a decision about the film but 4 nipples loom too large in my mind. Why couldn't it have been set up more like milking a cow than milking a human? It didn't need to be like that!

[Traveller]

Mezla PigDog, on 23 December 2017 - 08:24 AM, said:

I was hoping I would sleep on it and come to a decision about the film but 4 nipples loom too large in my mind. Why couldn't it have been set up more like milking a cow than milking a human? It didn't need to be like that!

I was slightly aghast at the time, but your reaction and description of it just makes it seem funny now.