[Korbas]

Fener, on 24 September 2012 - 02:35 AM, said:

D, on 24 September 2012 - 02:02 AM, said:

@telann I think culture hunt should come after we find one Eloth was solo or something weird. So keep lynching assassins. soon enough someone will CF faction. Then we culture hunt.

So should we go after people who are more active, so that we have more leads to follow after their CF? Or should we knock off some of the low posters. Being one of the lower posters, I'd hope the first over the latter. I'm going to look into the cases Tellan brought up.

Lol. If you're so worried, post more. (Although you aren't doing as badly as liosan anymore, are you?)

[Spite]

That seemed like a long weekend, but I'm caught up.

The Galain case has some merit, I might throw my vote that way. I am looking at a couple others and will return with my thoughts.

[Korvalain]

Tellan, on 23 September 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

So I'm finding Galain's play rather odd. He has spent pretty much the whole game throwing around accusations that people are assasins, while at the same time saying that the people who want to get rid of assasins are the other assasins.

Galain, on 21 September 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Tellan, on 21 September 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

If I'm reading it right, Mockra wants to lynch Karosis because he's smart. Which is a dumb way to play any Mafia game, but particularly a faction game where no one knows their whole team. So either Mockra knows something about Karosis, or Mockra is an independent. Neither of these gives me a lot of confidence in his push for the lynch.

Maybe, but it's true that Karosis basically put the nails on Eloth's coffin. Where you guys are getting this 'smart' player thing from, I don't know, Karosis basically just regurgitated a bunch of stuff that Korv had already said (albeit more eloquently), but that regurgitation certainly seemed to garner the necessary votes to lynch Eloth. I think Karosis saw an opportunity to get rid of an assassin and jumped on it, and I think that an assassin is more likely to do this, though on Day 1 I think anyone would have been willing to get rid of an assassin.

Here, Karosis could be an assasin, because he pushed for the lynch of an assasin.

Galain, on 21 September 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

Spite, on 21 September 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

Galain, on 21 September 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

Korbas, on 21 September 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

I was getting pretty damn annoyed at Mockra and now Meanas trying to downplay themselves so as to not appear a threat.

I think this is pretty rich coming from you. It seems that everone forgot that you were the first one to cry assassin about Eloth. It seems to me that you've been downplaying yourself and trying to throw suspicion out there in order to keep the spotlight away from you. I would still be interested in seeing whether you CF assassin or not.

At this point, I would be willing to vote Karosis or Korbas.

This looks an awful lot like you are trying to pull attention away from Mockra.

So what, because I agreed with Mockra about something, and because I brought up something I spent a good part of yesterday mentioning, I MUST be defending Mockra? That's just silly. Is it my fault the guy makes sense? I think that you're just trying to pull attention away from Korbas in the same way that you are accusing me of pulling attention away from Mockra.

vote Korbas

And here Korbas must be an assasin because he was the first to suggest that Eloth could be an assasin.

Then he replies to Spite's accusation by throwing around accusations of his own. This is blatant OMGUS, and I'm surprised he got away with it. Spite's accusation seemed more tied to the fact that Galain made a very obvious attack on Korbas, rather than anything to do with Galain defending Mockra or agreeing with Mockra's arguments.

So I'm not really sure what is up with Galain. He seems to be focussing on assasins, while arguing that the people focussing on assasins are probably assasins themselves. He looked like he was attempting to distract from Mockra's train, and admitted to agreeing with Mockra, and Mockra was an assasin. He repsonds badly to pressure put on him, flinging OMGUS accusations back.

I'd say he probably has a high-powered role, judging from his reaction to the pressure. He's using the accusation of assasin as a convenient excuse to attack the people he finds suspect, because it is something that all the factions can get behind, but he doesn't seem to realise that he is contradicting himself.

I was gonna come back from weekend break and basically say the same thing, I am glad others noticed this as well. The thing that really confused me is his fake symping of Mockra. What was the point of that? His little "I was unexpectedly pulled away from the game, but I would have voted Mockra" thing is a little too wishy washy for me. I would certainly be comfortable putting my vote on Galain, but will refrain for now until we get some more opinions on thread. In the meantime, I'll start looking at other people to see if anyone rings any alarm bells.

[Korvalain]

Fener, on 24 September 2012 - 06:03 AM, said:

I have another question. It seems like we have the three clans: Amako, Ouchi, and Hosokawa. Hosokawa made Ashikaga the shogun of Kyoto, it seems to me. Eloth was part of this shogunate. The scene depicted Eloth as a messenger, looking for help, not someone assigned to kill anyone. It said he was hoping to find help from the western clans, and help stop the violence in western kyoto. Perhaps the Ashikaga Shogunate isn't the puppet that Hosokawa thinks he is, and is working for his own needs. Anyway, if Asikaga is the puppet of Hosokawa, and Hosokawa is one of the 3 factions, who could Hosokawa be talking about in post 232 when he sends a scroll to his 'master' in Kyoto. Who is his master?

This is the million dollar question. For now, we can't be sure whether Eloth was an independent working for Ashikaga behind the scenes, or if he was working for Ashikaga the puppet, meaning he was part of Hosokawa. I think the only way we will truly find out is if we manage to lynch a Hosokawa. If we find someone else that CFs Ashikaga shogunate, it's probably a safe bet that the Ashikaga shogunate is Hosokawa. However, if we lynch someone and they CF as Hosokawa, then Eloth was probably an independent.

That being said, aside from the Mockra quote that I pulled out during Day 2 to build my case against him, there really hasn't been much in terms of connections to Eloth. I think it's likely that Eloth was an independent, as there did not seem to be anyone going out on any sort of limb to save his hide. Then again, it could just have been a case of 'Let the little guy die' as Eloth's CF did not really make him seem like a terribly important part.

There's something else that makes me think he was an independent as well. Give me a couple of minutes to pull out the correct quotes.

[Korvalain]

This is the introductory post. Underlines are mine to show a couple of important points:

Path-Shaper, on 19 September 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

It is the early 1500's, in lands West of the Imperial capital, Kyoto. With the defeat of the Ashikaga in the East, it did not take much for Western clans to make their own strikes for power. Masamoto Hosokawa struck first. In a conflict between the Hosokawa and the Hatakeyama clan, shogun Yoshitane led troops against Masamoto.
The shogun was defeated.

Masamoto subsequently took control of Kyoto, and exiled Yoshitane, raising Ashikaga Yoshizumi to the post of shogun in his stead. Yoshizumi, however, was nothing more than Masamoto's puppet to control.

This widened the conflict, as the neighboring clans of the Hosokawa decided to tentatively grab for more land, power and control of their destinies.

This is where the situation stands. Three clans, the Hosokawa, the Ouchi and the Amako push and prod each other, looking for any weaknesses. Not ready for open conflict yet, they seek diplomatic means, mild border skirmishes to keep each other off balance as well as even more…underhanded methods to try and seize the upper hand.

The time for brute force has not yet arrived. Instead, look for the knives in the dark….

So, Ashikaga is East of Kyoto, and the three clans are West of Kyoto.

And then in Eloth's death scene:

Path-Shaper, on 20 September 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

Kunitomo felt the border patrol closing in on his position. He had thought to infiltrate the clan by slipping through the checkpoint as a silk merchant, but several over-dubious border agents had sniffed through his false premise almost immediately. He had barely made his escape, but his mule was lame and he had nowhere else to go.

Taking his short blade from his sash, his only regret was that he had failed the Shogun, his master, and the Ashikaga would be stricken even further by his failure. It had been the hope of his master that he could find support amongst the Western Clans, and to possibly stave the violence that was slowly brewing West of Kyoto. It wasn’t to be, he had failed before he began. There was naught to be done but end it.

So he did. One crimson slash and his blood boiled across the bare stony ground.

Eloth (Azathmaster), Agent of the Ashikaga Shogunate is dead.

I know it's a slim connection, but it seems like he was sent by the Shogun to try to get some support. I think that Eloth was meant to be a recruiter for Ashikaga.

Anyway, I also did a bit of research to see if maybe Kunitomo was a true historical figure, and to see if info about that figure could help, cause I noted in previous Sengoku games that some of the characters were drawn from history. He is a true figure, but there's no help to be had. The only Kunitomo that came up in a Google search was part of the Tokugawa shogunate, and a gunsmith and astrologist. So yeah, no help there.

[Korbas]

I am in concurrence with korvalain. I also think eloth was a recruiter.

Also, i had a dream anthras killed me. Anthras is not in this game. And i'm dreaming about mafia. What have you people done to me?

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 23 hours and 45 minutes are left in the day.

14 players are left alive.


D'riss, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Olar Ethil, Osseric, Sorrit, Spite, Tellan


8 votes to lynch, 7 to go to night.

2 Votes Galain: Fener, Tellan


Players not voting:
D'riss, Emurlahn, Galain, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Olar Ethil, Osseric, Sorrit, Spite

[Sorrit]

Korbas, on 24 September 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

I am in concurrence with korvalain. I also think eloth was a recruiter.

Also, i had a dream anthras killed me. Anthras is not in this game. And i'm dreaming about mafia. What have you people done to me?

Maybe your dreaming about the next game!

[Emurlahn]

Korbas, on 24 September 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

Fener, on 24 September 2012 - 02:35 AM, said:

D, on 24 September 2012 - 02:02 AM, said:

@telann I think culture hunt should come after we find one Eloth was solo or something weird. So keep lynching assassins. soon enough someone will CF faction. Then we culture hunt.

So should we go after people who are more active, so that we have more leads to follow after their CF? Or should we knock off some of the low posters. Being one of the lower posters, I'd hope the first over the latter. I'm going to look into the cases Tellan brought up.

Lol. If you're so worried, post more. (Although you aren't doing as badly as liosan anymore, are you?)

Wow, I hadn't even noticed this.

Absolutely unacceptable. Five posts.

[Emurlahn]

Liosan, on 20 September 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

I absolutely forgot I was playing this game.

Let me read.

A beginning that explains his long absence at the beginning of the game.

Liosan, on 20 September 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

I want to know why Mockra does not have a Profile Picture. This displeases me greatly.

In more relevant news, I don't think Eloth speculating about role stuff is that odd in a faction game, but the recruit/hiring thing seems off to me. I see nothing about it in the setup post, just about how the factions and assassins are playing in the same area but have different goals. I also don't like Shin saying factions/assassin VC's are mutually exclusive when they clearly aren't. But maybe I'm just being pedantic. However, I have doubts that Eloth is attempting to distract from someone else at this point since no one was getting any heat when he started his talk.

I'll be dropping a vote on him a little later unless someone brings up a reason not to, but I believe we have a couple hours left and I'm around and would love a PS update.

A reasonably content filled post. Nothing spectacular, but nothing to complain about.

Liosan, on 20 September 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 20 September 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

Liosan, on 20 September 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

I also don't like Shin saying factions/assassin VC's are mutually exclusive when they clearly aren't. But maybe I'm just being pedantic.

Can you explain more clearly what is bothering you? Perhaps I have worded it badly, or there is a misunderstanding here. My only goal was to make it clear that the VC's are not dependent on each other (besides the fact that the faction VC's can potentially end the game before the assassins can reach a resolution). If that's your problem, then yes, I worded that badly.

Yes that is it, but it seems that the assassin ending does depend on the faction ending, unless assassins resolve first.

Liosan, on 20 September 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

Well, since no one is around or has anything to say, I'm going to take off.

Vote Eloth

Since this post, there has been but one more.

Liosan, on 21 September 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

Sorrit, on 21 September 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

Maybe assasins are more like finders? with a vig or two? or maybe they can only assasinate leaders and other assasins?

doesnt tappers role description say that an assasin can bypass guards and heals? so that cant be the reason there was no kills, maybe our assasins are lazy and didnt bother putting in an order

Did you get a role description list I didnt? And by Tapper do you mean Shinrei/Path-Shaper?

After this, nothing.


As I said, unacceptable coasting.

Vote Liosan

[Sorrit]

im going to give liosan a few hours today to try to bump his posts with some content before i vote but 5 posts on day 3 is aweful

[Olar Ethil]

Sorrit, on 24 September 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

well theres not much to read up on from the weekend.

I think eloth had a recruiting ability and the person he was going to out would of been his first recruit, who eloth would of happily thrown under the bus to save his misrable sneakly self!

Why do you think this? I've seen no real indication that there is a recruiting mechanic in this game. Am I missing something?

[Korvalain]

Olar Ethil, on 24 September 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

Sorrit, on 24 September 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

well theres not much to read up on from the weekend.

I think eloth had a recruiting ability and the person he was going to out would of been his first recruit, who eloth would of happily thrown under the bus to save his misrable sneakly self!

Why do you think this? I've seen no real indication that there is a recruiting mechanic in this game. Am I missing something?

Well, if Eloth was the recruiter, there wouldn't be any indication of it seeing as we lynched him straight off. I think the death scene seemed to indicate that he might have been sent by the Ashikaga Shogun in secret to recruit, and Eloth was the first person to bring up the possibility of a recruiter, which is another "he who spoke it" thing. We can't just assume that Eloth was a recruiter, but I certainly think it's possible.

As for the voting of Liosan. I understand the desire to vote a low poster out, but I am very much interested in starting to vote people whose CFs will actually give us information. This isn't a scum vs. town game where scum can just lie low to get to the end. Seeing as this is a faction game, voting out a low poster, while desirable for reasons of annoying, is completely useless to the rest of us. There just isn't enough content for us to tie them to anyone.

[Korvalain]

Another random thought regarding the possible recruiting ability:

Everyone remember the unaligned vs aligned assassins thing? If Eloth had been a recruiter, and he recruited an assassin, then the assassin would have become an aligned assassin. Could explain that unaligned assassins thing. Just throwing it out there.

[Sorrit]

Path-Shaper, on 20 September 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

Kunitomo felt the border patrol closing in on his position. He had thought to infiltrate the clan by slipping through the checkpoint as a silk merchant, but several over-dubious border agents had sniffed through his false premise almost immediately. He had barely made his escape, but his mule was lame and he had nowhere else to go.

Taking his short blade from his sash, his only regret was that he had failed the Shogun, his master, and the Ashikaga would be stricken even further by his failure. It had been the hope of his master that he could find support amongst the Western Clans, and to possibly stave the violence that was slowly brewing West of Kyoto. It wasn’t to be, he had failed before he began. There was naught to be done but end it.

bolded and underlined
The idea of finding support makes me think of recruitment

[D'riss]

Korvalain said:

1348494694[/url]' post='996729']

Fener said:

1348466605[/url]' post='996680']
I have another question. It seems like we have the three clans: Amako, Ouchi, and Hosokawa. Hosokawa made Ashikaga the shogun of Kyoto, it seems to me. Eloth was part of this shogunate. The scene depicted Eloth as a messenger, looking for help, not someone assigned to kill anyone. It said he was hoping to find help from the western clans, and help stop the violence in western kyoto. Perhaps the Ashikaga Shogunate isn't the puppet that Hosokawa thinks he is, and is working for his own needs. Anyway, if Asikaga is the puppet of Hosokawa, and Hosokawa is one of the 3 factions, who could Hosokawa be talking about in post 232 when he sends a scroll to his 'master' in Kyoto. Who is his master?

This is the million dollar question. For now, we can't be sure whether Eloth was an independent working for Ashikaga behind the scenes, or if he was working for Ashikaga the puppet, meaning he was part of Hosokawa. I think the only way we will truly find out is if we manage to lynch a Hosokawa. If we find someone else that CFs Ashikaga shogunate, it's probably a safe bet that the Ashikaga shogunate is Hosokawa. However, if we lynch someone and they CF as Hosokawa, then Eloth was probably an independent.

That being said, aside from the Mockra quote that I pulled out during Day 2 to build my case against him, there really hasn't been much in terms of connections to Eloth. I think it's likely that Eloth was an independent, as there did not seem to be anyone going out on any sort of limb to save his hide. Then again, it could just have been a case of 'Let the little guy die' as Eloth's CF did not really make him seem like a terribly important part.

There's something else that makes me think he was an independent as well. Give me a couple of minutes to pull out the correct quotes.

I agree with your reasoning so am comfortable labeling him independent for now. There's an Karosis comment from day one I want to dog out that looked interesting.

[Osseric]

Liosan is annoying with his lowposting . (not that I've been much better myself, )

I say we put a couple of votes on him , If he doesn't show up we kill him off.

btw , maybe Korv brought up this Lio thing to deflect from Galain ?

Vote Lio


for pressure reasons.

[D'riss]

Karosis said:

1348112250[/url]' post='995713']Had my eats, so a few more comments.

Emurlahn said:

1348065031[/url]' post='995522']

Osseric said:

1348064809[/url]' post='995520']

Meanas said:

1348064510[/url]' post='995517']

Korbas said:

1348063574[/url]' post='995508']

Karosis said:

1348024775[/url]' post='995407']Second. So who do we go after day one? Or do we just do the japansex thing today?

Odd question. Why do you ask who we go after when you're in the first two posters? Especially strange in a faction game, imo.

I thought it odd too

I guess he was trying to deflect attention . find a suitable lynch target so that you yourself will not be lynched .(Important role not wanting to die on his faction ?)

A defence of Karosis from Osseric?

That was not a defence from Osseric. This is a faction game. That's more along the lines of painting a target. Hey look, this guy is important to not my team.
While I normally don't find role speculation a hint of actual roles, I do find the way Eloth posed it as odd.

Eloth said:

1348069261[/url]' post='995536']Popping in on a free period. No discussion as of yet. What does everyone think about the assassin mechanic?

1. There was previous discussion.2. It is rare to see someone ask for discussion of one specific role in a faction game. If we assume that the previously posited distribution of four members per team is correct, then there are four roles not being asked about. Normally, someone will at least drop something about another potential role or two to fish for information on who has them.
The OP states the following:

Path-Shaper said:

1347949967[/url]' post='995162']Factions:
Each member of a faction knows their leader. The leader of each faction also knows a single member of their faction.
Victory conditions for factions:
Achieve numerical superiority over rival factions. Unaligned assassins are not included when calculating faction numbers.

I reread this after the noise Eloth made about assassins being able to be hired and seeing this post:

Galain said:

1348086843[/url]' post='995600']The thing that I would point out is that the OP scene setter does make it sound as if assassins will be hired to kill certain people, rather than being completely independent, or is that only my interpretation of it? It doesn't really fit with the assassin VCs though, unless of course they get some info on other assassins in return for 'doing a job'. Or is that too convoluted?

Note that it specifically states the unaligned assassins do not count against victory conditions. Not assassins in general. This makes it seem that both Eloth and Galain may be on to something, that assassins may be or become aligned (kinda doubt it though).
From the sum of these, I have doubts on whether Eloth is an assassin. If they are not an assassin, I still I think they were given information about assasins that I was not, which if it means they can hire assassins makes them more dangerous than an actual assassin. I also do not think they are in my faction so I am fine with voting for Eloth today.

Underlines are mine of course. Eloth does appear to be an independent of some sort. So what about the same reason against Galain? Lunch is almost over. Waiting for more thoughts from Korosis . Love to hear Galain's defense of this.

This post has been edited by D'riss: 24 September 2012 - 05:09 PM

[Korvalain]

Osseric, on 24 September 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Liosan is annoying with his lowposting . (not that I've been much better myself, )

I say we put a couple of votes on him , If he doesn't show up we kill him off.

btw , maybe Korv brought up this Lio thing to deflect from Galain ?

Vote Lio


for pressure reasons.

I didn't bring anything up re: Lio. If anything, I suggested we not vote low-posters. I would be much happier voting for Galain than Liosan. At least we get SOME information (albeit very little) if we vote out Galain, whereas we get NO information if we vote out Liosan.

What's with your hard-on for me?

[Galain]

Korbas, on 24 September 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

I am in concurrence with korvalain. I also think eloth was a recruiter.

Also, i had a dream anthras killed me. Anthras is not in this game. And i'm dreaming about mafia. What have you people done to me?

So like you, Korbas. Just enough to say you participated, without actually adding anything to the conversation. I don't trust Korbas, I think he's been too sneaky this whole game.

vote Korbas