[QuickTidal]

Mason of Death, on 21 August 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Hmmm, maybe you and I learned our history a little differently. How about the Cradle of Democracy, Athens, that existed before Christ? That's an earlier point in time, I'd say.

How does what they did move toward the stated goal of change? Did they supply an alternative? Do they have some kind realistic plan or idea? If not, all of this is simply negative criticism, throwing mud. Sure, enough people may get upset and...what? Attempt to violently overthrow the leadership of the country? Cause Putin's outside the election process. Like I said earlier, he is king. You can't vote him out. So the only way they'd realistically have a chance at getting rid of him would be violent. And any such attempt would be squashed like a bug.

And the rest of the world is not America. I'm reasonably certain that that is the only country where the activities you describe are tolerated. The vast majority of the rest of the world doesn't stand for that, because it undermines the leadership in a big way. Not just for the current guy in charge, but for everyone who comes after him as well. Does that make your society 'free'? If everyone has the right to do anything, say anything, that they want to, is that freedom? No. That's anarchy.

A. See Illy's reply below about Athens.

B. This post is...undereducated about history at best.

C. WW's post was spot on about democracy.

D. The statement that the "rest of the world" doesn't tolerate certain things...evidently you are under some bizarre iron curtain impression of the whole planet, which is really bizarre to me. Canada is certainly the same as the States, Scandinavian countries, democracy of that kinds exists all over Europe in various countries, Japan....the list goes on...

Re: Your comment about freedom being anarchy makes no sense (we have laws and police in place for this reason). The whole point of freedom is that if a person gets in power who is oppressive of the masses, under their thumb ect. Those same masses rise up and unseat him/her...that does not stem from anarchy, that's called not taking shit from an idiot.

It's why there are very few kings and queens left on the planet, and even those are only figure heads these days.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 21 August 2012 - 03:28 PM

[Mason of Death]

Illuyankas, on 21 August 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

Wasn't Athens more of a republic with several large demographics banned from voting? Women, slaves, etc.

You're right, though I wouldn't call that a republic. It was a very direct democracy, where only male adults who had completed military service could vote (like Starship Troopers). And these guys basically were the government. They would vote and act on things directly. There were few elected officials. IMO it was a smart idea (except for leaving the women out, though I'm sure they found ways to control things anyway ). Have only the people who were willing to fight for the country be directly involved in its governance.

@QT: A: I replied to Illy's post about Athens


B: Please tell what fount of knowledge you have drunk from, oh Enlightened One, to dispense such vague criticism with uncaring bliss?


C: That's wonderful. Glad you think so. (No really, no sarcasm intended. Just don't see what that statement is doing here.)


D: Hmmm where to start? Have you lived in any of those countries? I personally have lived in Japan (which is more of a republic, TBH), the US, and Mexico. A homeless drunk on the street is not so rude in Japan. In Mexico people would simply never speak to you again. I can't say much for other countries, but many of them seem to have some modicum of personal pride or societal pressure, so that the things that people say about the American President don't really get said of other leaders around the world. Just my opinion though. It's not like everyone who disagrees with me automatically lives behind an iron wall or something .


E (at least, I think it was meant to be an E): I'm sorry, that comment about freedom being anarchy makes perfect sense. Unrestrained freedom is anarchy, by definition. And I think you and I have different views on the whole point of freedom.

In the future, if you care about your argument so much, could you please take the time to proofread it, perhaps?

[worry]

I did not realize Athens was THE earlier point in time. Maybe we learned our prehistory a little differently, as I was under the impression that the universe began billions of years before any living breathing human stepped foot on what would eventually become known as Athens, and even that was about a couple hundred thousand years into the species' existence.

But I suppose you have the weight of history behind you...glib dismissal of human suffering as "not my problem", a smug grin I'm sure as you mistakenly believe you've one-upped a rival with a witty ripost on their proofreading (nevermind the fact that you're doing it on the Internet, one of if not the greatest democratizers the world has seen, and it's still only the first century of a global community that is evolving and progressing far more rapidly than any previous era). And if the fruitlessness of changing people's minds is the crux of your point of view, then you've done a bang-up job of proving out your philosophy by personal example in this thread, so congratulations.

[Morgoth]

Mason of Death, on 21 August 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

D: Hmmm where to start? Have you lived in any of those countries? I personally have lived in Japan (which is more of a republic, TBH), the US, and Mexico. A homeless drunk on the street is not so rude in Japan. In Mexico people would simply never speak to you again. I can't say much for other countries, but many of them seem to have some modicum of personal pride or societal pressure, so that the things that people say about the American President don't really get said of other leaders around the world. Just my opinion though. It's not like everyone who disagrees with me automatically lives behind an iron wall or something .



E (at least, I think it was meant to be an E): I'm sorry, that comment about freedom being anarchy makes perfect sense. Unrestrained freedom is anarchy, by definition. And I think you and I have different views on the whole point of freedom.

In reference to your point D. You seem to be profoundly ignorant of the workings of other countries if you think disrespect towards ones leaders, or people in general for that matter, is a particularly american phenomenon. This ties back to this strange notion you seem to have regarding personal freedom in the US compared to the rest of the western world.

E - No, it only makes sense by your specific definiton of freedom, which is hardly the only one available. In fact, the very content of that word is at the heart of most discussions of political ideology.

[Mason of Death]

The vitriol...it burns...

2 questions, and I'll leave you to your delusions thoughts.

1: Why do you care? Two juvenile delinquents halfway across the world. Sure, it's liberty and justice for all...but that's also what the punk spray-painting a penis on a church would say. Why is your reaction to this so...imperious?

2: Ok, so this is something dear to your heart. You just can't sleep at night unless everyone lives and thinks the same way you do. I get it. You care. Now what? What is all this (the 'protest' as well as your concern) doing? Is there a plan? A petition, or fundraiser, or revolution? anything at all? If not, then this is all just empty sympathy, and take it from someone who's been there: it's worse than indifference.

It was fun, at first. Maybe next time we can have one without so much flame.

Cheers.

[Adjutant Stormy~]

Keep it civil, friends. This is the Discussion Board, and that shit doesn't fly.

Back to the OP, if you please.

They succeeded in getting both the publicity they were after, and the pulpit from which to speak their message. The form and methods, obviously, being contentious - they nonetheless achieved one thing: bringing the issues to the headlines.

This post has been edited by Adjutant Stormy: 22 August 2012 - 10:08 PM

[worry]

You can't just show up to the Discussion Board every few months and tell people to be civil, like an absentee father who visits on birthdays and Christmas and tries to pass on his wisdom. You might think "finishing school" and "trying to find a job" are great excuses, but they sound like "Sorry, but my Whitesnake cover band had a lot of fairs to play this summer" to me.

Anyway, good point.