[Kanese S's]

Also, holy crap, a serious topic from me.


Currently I'm rereading Memories of Ice (that it's a reread is why this is in General Book Topics, and not the MOI forums). I've just gotten past the scene in which Lady Envy, Toc the Younger, the Seguleh, and the dogs go to the little Pannion temple in the border temple. As we know, they eventually destroy the place and kill all the priests, but earlier, they were being quite civil, and making introductions. This would be P. 293 of the mass market paperback version.

Quote

The gaunt man smiled. 'And he does, mistress.' He bowed towards the warrior. 'This is Seerdomin Kahlt, the master of this temple. Seerdomin are the Gifted among the Pannion Seer's children. Warriors without parallel, yet learned as well. Now to complete the introductions, will you grant me the honour of your names?'

'I am Lady Islah'Dracon,' Lady Envy said, eyes now on the Seerdomin. 'My companion is named Toc the Younger; my bodyguards Senu, Thurule, and the one presently sleeping is Mok. Do you wish the names of my pets as well?'

For some reason I'd completely forgotten about this.

Given that Envy provides what is presumably her actual surname, as one side of her parentage is known, I would guess that "Islah" is also actually her name, or at least part of it. Yet, as far as I know, her name has always been Envy. So perhaps then "Islah" is the original word, meaning "Envy" in whatever language Draconus spoke way back in the day (Tiste language perhaps? Since he was all lovey dovey with Mother Dark, it's pretty safe to say he knew whatever language they used, but then again, from what little of FOD I've seen, he possibly knew some other languages as well), and she translates her name so that whoever she's talking to knows what it actually is supposed to mean?

I realize this is some pretty minor trivia, but still I find it interesting, and wonder what Spite's name in whatever the hell language it is, is.

This post has been edited by Kanese S's: 16 August 2012 - 09:34 PM

[Kanese S's]

Nobody has any comments?

Is everyone too shocked by my thread containing no sexual references (well, beyond Lady Envy herself, that is)?

Or is it just too trivial/boring?

Or are you guys just no fun?

[Kurald Bolognese]

That is interesting actually, after reading Forge of Darkness I was wondering about how Envy and Spite's names still seemed to mean "envy" and "spite" millennia later. Do they continually translate them into the local language's terms wherever they end up? Must be confusing for them...

Of course language issues in the books are entirely... malleable (by which I mean suddenly absent when the plot demands, consider the amount of characters who get released from long-term imprisonment under a rock/in an Azath and can immediately converse with pretty much any modern day person they encounter).

[D'rek]

Kurald Bolognese, on 18 August 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

Of course language issues in the books are entirely... malleable (by which I mean suddenly absent when the plot demands, consider the amount of characters who get released from long-term imprisonment under a rock/in an Azath and can immediately converse with pretty much any modern day person they encounter).

There's a lot of convenient sporadic translation abilities, yes, but it is usually at least mentioned/explained - ie when Ganath releases herself Paran is surprised to find his Master of the Deck role giving him the ability to speak fluent Jaghut.

[Kanese S's]

Kurald Bolognese, on 18 August 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

That is interesting actually, after reading Forge of Darkness I was wondering about how Envy and Spite's names still seemed to mean "envy" and "spite" millennia later. Do they continually translate them into the local language's terms wherever they end up? Must be confusing for them...

Of course language issues in the books are entirely... malleable (by which I mean suddenly absent when the plot demands, consider the amount of characters who get released from long-term imprisonment under a rock/in an Azath and can immediately converse with pretty much any modern day person they encounter).

Envy and Spite don't seem like the most easily confused of people.

I'm going with the idea that they enjoy having people they meet know the actual meanings of their names, so continually translate them into something whoever they're talking to understands.

And yeah, as D'rek says, I think ascendants get translation powers as part of their being ascendants. So that the weekly brunches go more smoothly, I imagine.

But yeah, I'm assuming that "Islah" does in fact mean "Envy," due to her giving her true surname. This in turn leads me to the idea that she in some way likes that her name has such a negative connotation and so translates it for her acquaintances' benefit.

This post has been edited by Kanese S's: 18 August 2012 - 11:23 PM

[Brujah]

I thought it was just some seven cities version of her name. I think she was described as either wearing old seven cities clothing, or something about her said 'older' seven cities, therefore I thought it may have been her most recent version of her name.

[Kanese S's]

Her most recent version is likely the version she uses when speaking to Toc.

Seven Cities has some pretty old dialects, though, doesn't it? But then, she's even older. Much, much older. If she had worshipers, she'd be an elder goddess, even. Looking pretty good for her age.

[Acorn]

You know, sadly I completely missed this the first two times through the series.

Granted it is tucked into a rather minor exchange between a crazy Lady (And yes-sir-you'd-better-use-that-capital-L) and an even crazier (than Envy... is that even possible? plausible? Probable?) priest of an even crazier religion (though no crazier than some of ours in the "real world")... So how did I miss this again?

So on my current re-read, which isn't a read of any variety as I'm being my typically lazy self and having some other poor schmuck (schmuck is a wonderful word) read them to me, and thus mangle some of the names and places even more than I would have. And having currently gone through three different readers (I think I'm being too demanding and they are quitting or being killed because of it, I mean... I've heard Jaghut spoken in three distinct ways.. JAHG-HUT, JAG-HUT and currently and most frustratingly JAG-HOOT... Of course I'm killing them off, I mean how is one to have any sense of self when the voices in my head can't even agree on HOW TO SAY THE SAME BLOODY WORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)....................

Oh my. I think I need sleep. I progress. (I never digress, it sounds too much like Tigress and I am not the type to mess with a female pussycat of such a large and pointy-teethed variety.)

So progression.

I think that we have just had a sneak peek into the clever use of the unknown language that is Draconian... Which I suppose would be spoken by the Eleint? I mean, shouldn't it be called Eleintian, or Eleintese, or Eleintish? Because forget not that Draconus isn't truly a Dragon, he is of course a Soletaken - which means he's sole-less... Someone should really make him some shoes....


Sleep. Need. Now... Having a 4 month old baby who has out-grown 12 month old clothes is NOT conducive to restful nights.....

[Sinisdar Toste]

Acorn, on 27 August 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

I've heard Jaghut spoken in three distinct ways.. JAHG-HUT, JAG-HUT and currently and most frustratingly JAG-HOOT...

Jag-hoot is actually confirmed by SE as the proper pronunciation. apparently the G is almost supposed to be inaudible.

[worry]

The board exists so you never have to say any of these things aloud.

[Acorn]

Sinisdar Toste, on 27 August 2012 - 11:42 PM, said:

Acorn, on 27 August 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

I've heard Jaghut spoken in three distinct ways.. JAHG-HUT, JAG-HUT and currently and most frustratingly JAG-HOOT...

Jag-hoot is actually confirmed by SE as the proper pronunciation. apparently the G is almost supposed to be inaudible.

BAH! I call shenanigans on that!

Icarium isn't part Owl is he? NO he is NOT... I don't think. Perhaps his father (who shall remain nameless lest I burst any bubbles that have not yet bubbled to the surface of knowledging Icarium's murky past!) had a thing for avian textures and streamlined backsides!

Yet who (HAH! GET IT? WHOO!................. you know.... like an owl?) would know!

Of course it's correct to say it with the accent of an Owl... But what kind of owl? Barn? Snow? Screech?

Jahoot sounds slightly silly, so I appreciate the assistance of the G, mostly silent though it may be... Jag-hoot it is! Or is it JA ghoot? I DEMAND ACCENT MARKS!!!! RAWR!!!!!!!!!

Now I'm sadly imagining the Cowboy-guy-person from the "Yahoo!" commercials (from the US at least.. YAHOOO ooo OOO!) shouting JAG HOOO OO OOOOOT....

My poor confused and labyrinthian mind.......

[Sinisdar Toste]

imagine you're saying it with two gigantic tusks sticking out of your face.