[Aptorian]

SPOILERS ARE PUT IN BOXES OR THEY GET THE HOSE AGAIN!

I'm about a hundred pages into the book and I need to put my thoughts down:

Spoiler

Okay. From what I can gather as old truths are shattered and I am developing new theories.

All the Elder Races lived together on the same continent/world?

Kurald Galain is a land not a warren.

Omtose Phellack appears to be a tower/holding of the Jaghut, one of many connected to various known Jaghut.

It appears that the book takes place after the Jaghut war on death? Seeing as the Tiste to not know of a time when the Jaghut had an army and the Jhelleckan believe there was never many Jaghut.

The dog runners must be the Eres'al and the dogs are probably Deragoth.

Interesting that the Jheck exist in this age. And they come from the Jherecal who worship beast gods. I wonder if the First Empire and Dessimbelackis specifically might be older than we think?

No mention of the K'chain Che'malle yet. I wonder if they are the threat that is going to come out of the sea?

Caladan Brood is old as fuck! I thought there was Barghast blood in him but this seems to have been a false indication of his age.

Similarly the Errant is, if the Errant mentined in the Dramatis Personae is the same Errant from Lether, old as dirt and the story of him being a human that became a Master of the Tiles and ascended is not true.

T'riss just walked out of the sea making her far older than we assumed as well.

There is no darkness yet and the Tiste are not black it seems.

Rake and his brithers are not actually related to Mother Dark?!

Mother Dark is an ascendant?!

Osserc is a Tiste Andii? So is Draconus?

I suspect that Draconus is Azathanai.

I can't recall if the name Andii has ever been explained before this book but I now suspect that the Tiste might really be human beings or rather just another earlier branch of the same tree.

Kurald Galain is not yet wrapped in Darkness. The liosan and Edur do not yet exist. There are no warrens.

I bet that there's going to be some drama with the Tiste Andii civil war in the middle. Everything is going to turn to fuck and things will get torn to pieces. Mother Darks growing darkness will encompass all the lands, blotting out the sun for ever and changing all the Tiste that follow her. The other Tiste who oppose the Sons and Sisters of Darkness will become Liosan. The world will be ripped apart and the lands as we know them will become warrens. This will probably be around the time the Holds go from being family holdings to beings Warrens on to themselves. I wonder if somebody like Urusander, Ossercs father, will become Father Light? It would make sense. He is studying the Forulkan people's philosophies and it would explain the similarlities in the world view between Liosan and Forkrul Assail and why a Justice war errupted between them.

This is my theory.

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 05 August 2012 - 09:09 AM

[Sandalath]

I just got the book last night, after finishing off my ICE books. So I'm not very far in yet

Spoiler

I'm intrigued that the Tiste appear to be white so far into the book, I can't to meet Mother dark in the book and find out what her motivations are and what actually happens to cause her to gather the darkness and subsume Kurald Galain.

I wasn't actually surprised that the lands of the Jaghut and the Tiste are on the same world, but I'm surprised they appear to be on the same continent.

I love the fact the Forkrul Assail were then named the Forukal, it's a wonderful use of word evolution.

I'm not sure what race Draconus is yet, I get the feeling he is Tiste, as the groundsmen in his hold do not say he isn't, which would seem a bit odd if they don't mention it (mind you I'm only on chapter 2)

I originally thought that Anomander, Scabarandi etc were actual sons of mother dark like you Apt, but appears to be just a figure of speech. They are just followers of hers in the forthcoming civil war.

Anyway, back to the book!

This post has been edited by Sandalath: 05 August 2012 - 09:47 AM

[End of Disc One]

I'm also 100 pages in.

Spoiler

Why do you say Osserc is Tiste Andii? I thought he was just a regular Tiste at this point.

There was a mention that Hust blades are changing their holders' appearance. IIRC they said it wasn't true darkness, but something dark. Maybe they become the Edur?

So Silchas Ruin is a true albino. He didn't turn white from "drinking too much Tiam juice" or something. Maybe he doesn't even get involved in whatever ceremony/sorcery turn his brothers black. Also, maybe Draconus is a regular Tiste who doesn't turn into an Andii, Edur, or Liosan.

Speaking of characters turning out to not be human, who ballin would it be if Kallor was in this trilogy? I mean he seemed to know a lot about the KCCM for a mortal. Why couldn't he have just been taking the appearance of a human like Errastas and many others?

Sharenas Ankhadu has two "sisters" or friends whose names or similar to Menandore or Sheltatha Lore. I wonder if anything will come of that.

Really enjoying it so far.

[joshbhoy]

About 260 pages in and Although its a bit slow going I'm enjoying it. Really enjoying the parts in Glimmer Fate and the whole Draconus storyline.

Plus im enjoying learning that

Spoiler

Kuruld Galain was just part of a world rather than the warren that we know it as.


Good to see some familiar characters from the Malazan books, some of them a lot younger than others!

Finally starting to get little bits and pieces mentioned about Kru'l and warrens. Im looking forward to this being expanded on in this trilogy!

[champ]

Half way through and this is the first SE book that I have struggled to get into.

I don’t really know what it is either - I don't know if all the POV changes are ruining the flow, the Olympics are distracting me, the change in details are annoying me…

The only part that had me page turning was when:

Spoiler

Orfantal was on the run and we discover Burn in her temple. Probably the only bit of decent action.

The rest, so far, has felt meh!

Though…

Spoiler

GRIZZIN FARL – BOGFUCKNUTS! About time!!!!

[End of Disc One]

I can understand struggling with this one because really not much is happening. I'm just enjoying seeing the world, and how it defies what we used to think about it.

[Aptorian]

Just passed page 300

Spoiler

BURN!

Okay, so she was always sleeping it seems. The "Denier" believes that she is an ancient Dogrunner witch that is worshipped by the Dog runners. And that she dreams so that everyone can be free? I suspect she is far older than the dogrunners just like the Azathanai. But what purpose does her dreaming serve? How do they give people freedom? My mind is full of fuck. And Sukhul Ankhadu was actually a nice person once upon a time.

I agree with the above that the book has been feeling a bit slow but the section surrounding T'riss visit to the Shake and Mother Dark was absolutely amazing. I wonder what she did with the Vitr and Mother Dark. I also wonder what she did to Anomander Rake. Finally, I dislike that Syrrana (or what ever she was called) becomes the origin of light. It seems less.... epic a beginning for the Liosan. Why not just have Urusander and T'riss cross paths? Oh well, I am sure it will make sense once the high priestess actually meets Urusander and he transforms.

Also, holy shit The Errant killed Hoods wife?! How did the Errant stay alive for so many years. The guy seems to fuck things up where ever he goes.

By the way, any idea what that warren/realm of abandoned riches was about?

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 06 August 2012 - 07:27 PM

[Sandalath]

Must not click on the spoilers, must not!


I'm going to have to sleep in the spare room tonight so I can read it and not rile the lady wife.

[Iamme]

Spoiler

I am curious as to how Osserc ends up being called the bastard of Light. He is a regular Tiste who obviously rejects Mother Dark due to his father. Shocking to know that some Tiste choose darkness, all because of a man named Nimander and his 3 sons. I wonder if Anomander came to regret this in future. Weird that he showed so much loyalty to darkness in future.

This post has been edited by Imperial Historian: 07 August 2012 - 09:27 AM
Reason for edit: Mod edit: SPOILERS!!! don't do it

[Silk]

Spoiler

Well the best bit was in finding that Anomanders Son and future TA leader was named after what in essence was MD's greatest warrior and possible husband to MD until he died, this kind of brings a new meaning to the statement by MD that she found in Nimander the blood of one she knows so well... this may actualy reference Anomanders Dad and not Anomander himself...although the relationship between the two is how a kid would be with their Mom.... frustrating...i.e the Silver mane as defiance

[QuickTidal]

I'm not un-clicking spoilers, but so far (I'm about 40 pages in) and the few revelations I've had,

Spoiler

The Tiste not yet black (which I assume will change at some point in the 3 books) and there is not yet mention of "Andii" or the other two distinctions for that matter, Draconus is really, really not liked by the general populous, Anomander et al are just figuratively son's of MD...that was a big one for me...whoa!, The Tiste and the Jaghut live on the same continent? Crazyness! Am I the only one who likes that the wastes in the west are called the Bareth Solitude? I just like that name.

I'm not far enough in to make any full judgements, but I'm having a few juddering moments where I find it hard to get into...but only a few...and quite frankly I assumed I would since we are not only being introduced to a huge new world, but we are also having preconceived notions about these races and their origins tested...

...all in all so far, me likey.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 08 August 2012 - 12:55 PM

[VienKush]

Just about finished. It is funny about what someone said earlier about not being able to get into FOD, I actually found it a return to form for SE. Jeez he's a bastard though, could kill him at times.

This post has been edited by VienKush: 09 August 2012 - 08:06 AM

[Abalieno]

I'm in the curious position of having read only up to (and including) Midnight Tides, and now reading The Forge of Darkness (also just 40 pages in).

The most surprising thing is how the writing feels so much stronger going straight from the first pages of The Bonehunters to this. I'd say I perceive as much substantial improvement between MT and this, as there was going from GotM to DG.

It's not that the previous books were written poorly, but this one is so much more measured, and it is, line by line, as brilliant as the novellas (that I always considered an high point).

This post has been edited by Abalieno: 09 August 2012 - 08:51 AM

[blackzoid]

Abalieno, on 09 August 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

I'm in the curious position of having read only up to (and including) Midnight Tides, and now reading The Forge of Darkness (also just 40 pages in).

The most surprising thing is how the writing feels so much stronger going straight from the first pages of The Bonehunters to this. I'd say I perceive as much substantial improvement between MT and this, as there was going from GotM to DG.

It's not that the previous books were written poorly, but this one is so much more measured, and it is, line by line, as brilliant as the novellas (that I always considered an high point).

Why did you do this? You have now ruined some of the major revelations about the ending of the original 10 books for yourself.
Were you just impatient? Could you not wait?

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 09 August 2012 - 09:45 AM

[QuickTidal]

Around page 110 now and I have one question:

Spoiler

So are we meant to assume that Sharenas Ankhadum, Infayen Menand and Tathe Lorat...that one of them sleeps with young Osserc to produce the Sisters (Sheltatha Lore. Menandore ect.)? Or am I misreading that?

[Wry]

QuickTidal, on 09 August 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Around page 110 now and I have one question:

Do you really want an answer?

Spoiler

The three sisters are not sisters at all. Sukul Ankhadu already exists and is not related to Infayan Menand (who i assume from her intro is menendore) or Osserc. Shetlanta Lore is Tathes daughter, youll meet her briefly. Basically everything we thought is wrong.

This post has been edited by Wry: 09 August 2012 - 07:59 PM

[Morgoth]

Reading this book I am once again blown away by the insane amount of history SE made for his books. It's clear that at least the major plotlines in FoD were known as far back as when he started GotM.

[QuickTidal]

Okay, so rounded page 160 this morning and a few more things and guesses.

Spoiler

While it is early days in the book yet, I have one or two theories....1. Arathan is perhaps Ruthan Gudd? I don't know, but it seems like the meeting with Grizzin Farl (revealed as another Azathanai, the first revealed being Caladan Brood) was portentious, even though Farl was headed on to Kharkanas and Draconus and Co. were headed on to cross the Bareth Solitiude. The sword that Rake is having commissioned by Hust...I'm puzzled about. It certainly SOUNDS like something akin to Dragnipur, what with Rake wishing to have it imbued with Darkness / sorcery at the final forging...but what light would that cast into Draconus supposedly having forged it? Is it possible that Draconus doesn't forge it but steals it? Or is this another sword of Rakes and perhaps Draconus forges one similar? Just a few preponderances about that first chapter about the sword. My fave this so far...the Glimmer Fate....coolest setting in a fantasy book yet? I don't know if it tops the list, but it's certainly close...LOVE the black grasses, heat and wooden armor to deal with said heat...and scaled versions of beasties to deal with that. It's just reallly cool and that adds an extra layer of cool to the Warden's Of the Outer Reaches. So far I'm really enjoying it and I can't think of a single plotline that I've struggled with...they are all so far very interesting.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 10 August 2012 - 12:31 PM

[End of Disc One]

In response to QT, this is not a spoiler but I'll put it in tags anyway

Spoiler

Didn't Rake wield Vengeance before Dragnipur? The sword that Dassem later used and renamed Greif?

[QuickTidal]

End of Disc One, on 10 August 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

In response to QT, this is not a spoiler but I'll put it in tags anyway

Spoiler

Didn't Rake wield Vengeance before Dragnipur? The sword that Dassem later used and renamed Greif?

Spoiler

Ah, indeed. So that could indeed be it...but was Vengeance imbued with Darkness?