[Ivanr the Deliverer]

How much is the Malazan Empire series linked with D&D? I realize that AD&D was the inspiration, but I read somewhere that the Malazan Empire is a "backdrop" to D&D. I've never played D&D so I don't know. Do all Malazan readers play D&D?

[Abyss]

Authors SE and ICE AD&D gamed a lot of the setting and some characters before the books were written.

That's the extent of the connection afaik.

There are a few D&D gamers around and a few ex-gamers, but far from any kind of significant chunk of forumites or readers in general.

[worry]

It was GURPS, not AD&D, not that I know the difference. I'm too busy catching waves and laying hot babes.

[Abyss]

worrywort, on 18 July 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

It was GURPS, not AD&D, not that I know the difference. I'm too busy playing videogames and dl'ing animated squirrel-elf pr0n.

Fixed to reflect reality.

[Primateus]

GURPS is the Generic Universal Roleplaying system, and it is much more suited for the malazan world than Dungeons & Dragons is. The rules in D&D is, in my opinion, not suited to adequately represent the Malazan universe.

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

I'd be really interested to see them release their campaign/rules, but it might render the books a bit... sillier to read. It's already kind of amusing to pick out the points where characters level up (sorry, Quick, I mean got nastier and stretched) or dual-class

[James Hutton]

Primateus, on 18 July 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

The rules in D&D is, in my opinion, not suited to adequately represent the Malazan universe.

Exactly. For instance, ever since I read MBotF, I rail against the rigid alignment system in D&D. Is there any one MBotF character you could define in Lawful - Chaotic and (especially!) Good - Evil terms?

[Brujah]

We played GURPS back in the day, (way back in the day, 10 years ago at least ) and chose it instead of the more common AD&D because we just found it easier to Play, design characters, and campaign. It was just compact and simple. Good for starters. This was before many of the additions .

And although I thought it was cool, we stuck strictly to fantasy. But the Cyborg add was cool. We just never got into any futuristic settings.

And then I of course moved on to V:tM and nerded it up there for a while.

I'm still amazed my wife still loves me.

[Kanese S's]

James Hutton, on 19 July 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Primateus, on 18 July 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

The rules in D&D is, in my opinion, not suited to adequately represent the Malazan universe.

Exactly. For instance, ever since I read MBotF, I rail against the rigid alignment system in D&D. Is there any one MBotF character you could define in Lawful - Chaotic and (especially!) Good - Evil terms?

Not sure about the lawful-chaotic axis, but Bidithal is pretty solidly evil.

[James Hutton]

Kanese S, on 26 July 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

James Hutton, on 19 July 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Primateus, on 18 July 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

The rules in D&D is, in my opinion, not suited to adequately represent the Malazan universe.

Exactly. For instance, ever since I read MBotF, I rail against the rigid alignment system in D&D. Is there any one MBotF character you could define in Lawful - Chaotic and (especially!) Good - Evil terms?

Not sure about the lawful-chaotic axis, but Bidithal is pretty solidly evil.

Good, one exception proves the rule

[Abyss]

James Hutton, on 26 July 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

Kanese S, on 26 July 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

James Hutton, on 19 July 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Primateus, on 18 July 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

The rules in D&D is, in my opinion, not suited to adequately represent the Malazan universe.

Exactly. For instance, ever since I read MBotF, I rail against the rigid alignment system in D&D. Is there any one MBotF character you could define in Lawful - Chaotic and (especially!) Good - Evil terms?

Not sure about the lawful-chaotic axis, but Bidithal is pretty solidly evil.

Good, one exception proves the rule

Raest in GotM, Mallick Rel, the tenescowri, Febryl, that homicidal guard guy in MT, the trohlbar'al, the evil rapist guy in RG, Yath, that guy who killed Murillio, the senior FA in DoD/TCG, whoever was killing the girls in SW, the 'goddess' in SW, the Tyrant-King of Darujhistan, his hunchback sidekick...

[James Hutton]

Abyss, on 26 July 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

James Hutton, on 26 July 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

Kanese S, on 26 July 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

James Hutton, on 19 July 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Primateus, on 18 July 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

The rules in D&D is, in my opinion, not suited to adequately represent the Malazan universe.

Exactly. For instance, ever since I read MBotF, I rail against the rigid alignment system in D&D. Is there any one MBotF character you could define in Lawful - Chaotic and (especially!) Good - Evil terms?

Not sure about the lawful-chaotic axis, but Bidithal is pretty solidly evil.

Good, one exception proves the rule

Raest in GotM, Mallick Rel, the tenescowri, Febryl, that homicidal guard guy in MT, the trohlbar'al, the evil rapist guy in RG, Yath, that guy who killed Murillio, the senior FA in DoD/TCG, whoever was killing the girls in SW, the 'goddess' in SW, the Tyrant-King of Darujhistan, his hunchback sidekick...

Alright, alright! I get it.

I however very much like that characters aren't portrayed as "you can only be on the side of good or evil." For instance the serial killer in TtH. Is he evil for killing so many people? Or might his actions be open to justification as the souls of the murdered were necessary for his wife to physically summon Hood, which made it possible for Rake to finally convince Mother Dark to come back to the Tiste Andii... As I said, for instance. There are so many things like this going on in the books.

[D'rek]

James Hutton, on 26 July 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

Abyss, on 26 July 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

James Hutton, on 26 July 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

Kanese S, on 26 July 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

James Hutton, on 19 July 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Primateus, on 18 July 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

The rules in D&D is, in my opinion, not suited to adequately represent the Malazan universe.

Exactly. For instance, ever since I read MBotF, I rail against the rigid alignment system in D&D. Is there any one MBotF character you could define in Lawful - Chaotic and (especially!) Good - Evil terms?

Not sure about the lawful-chaotic axis, but Bidithal is pretty solidly evil.

Good, one exception proves the rule

Raest in GotM, Mallick Rel, the tenescowri, Febryl, that homicidal guard guy in MT, the trohlbar'al, the evil rapist guy in RG, Yath, that guy who killed Murillio, the senior FA in DoD/TCG, whoever was killing the girls in SW, the 'goddess' in SW, the Tyrant-King of Darujhistan, his hunchback sidekick...

Alright, alright! I get it.

I however very much like that characters aren't portrayed as "you can only be on the side of good or evil." For instance the serial killer in TtH. Is he evil for killing so many people? Or might his actions be open to justification as the souls of the murdered were necessary for his wife to physically summon Hood, which made it possible for Rake to finally convince Mother Dark to come back to the Tiste Andii... As I said, for instance. There are so many things like this going on in the books.

A motivation he was completely unaware of, so I don't think it really changes the portrayal of him. The revelation that he was not really beating up the weak drunkards he found, but instead purposely antagonizing the biggest brawlers he could find, hoping to die so his poor wife would get the insurance money from his death because he can't work anymore, though...

[Kanese S's]

Abyss, on 26 July 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

James Hutton, on 26 July 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

Kanese S, on 26 July 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

James Hutton, on 19 July 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Primateus, on 18 July 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

The rules in D&D is, in my opinion, not suited to adequately represent the Malazan universe.

Exactly. For instance, ever since I read MBotF, I rail against the rigid alignment system in D&D. Is there any one MBotF character you could define in Lawful - Chaotic and (especially!) Good - Evil terms?

Not sure about the lawful-chaotic axis, but Bidithal is pretty solidly evil.

Good, one exception proves the rule

Raest in GotM, Mallick Rel, the tenescowri, Febryl, that homicidal guard guy in MT, the trohlbar'al, the evil rapist guy in RG, Yath, that guy who killed Murillio, the senior FA in DoD/TCG, whoever was killing the girls in SW, the 'goddess' in SW, the Tyrant-King of Darujhistan, his hunchback sidekick...

Indeed. Though a large number of characters in the Malaz series are morally ambiguous, there are actually quite a few ones who are simply put, really bad people. Of those, I'd say Raest is chaotic evil, Mallick Rel is neutral evil or lawful evil, tenescowri are chaotic, not sure about Febryl, Gerun Eberict is chaotic or neutral, the trohlbar'al is/are chaotic, the evil rapist guy... hard to say... I want to say lawful since he is a lawful authority, the asshole who killed Murillio is lawful evil or neutral, the senior FA are very much lawful evil I think, etc.

More difficult, I think, to find characters that are unambiguously good, perhaps. Brys Beddict might qualify, as lawful good. Tehol might be chaotic good. Or chaotic neutral, who knows. Trull Sengar is pretty much solidly good, just underconfident. Perhaps also Coltaine and a few others.

But yeah, most characters fall somewhere in the middle or are different things at different times.

[Kanese S's]

D, on 26 July 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

James Hutton, on 26 July 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

Abyss, on 26 July 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

James Hutton, on 26 July 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

Kanese S, on 26 July 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

James Hutton, on 19 July 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Primateus, on 18 July 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

The rules in D&D is, in my opinion, not suited to adequately represent the Malazan universe.

Exactly. For instance, ever since I read MBotF, I rail against the rigid alignment system in D&D. Is there any one MBotF character you could define in Lawful - Chaotic and (especially!) Good - Evil terms?

Not sure about the lawful-chaotic axis, but Bidithal is pretty solidly evil.

Good, one exception proves the rule

Raest in GotM, Mallick Rel, the tenescowri, Febryl, that homicidal guard guy in MT, the trohlbar'al, the evil rapist guy in RG, Yath, that guy who killed Murillio, the senior FA in DoD/TCG, whoever was killing the girls in SW, the 'goddess' in SW, the Tyrant-King of Darujhistan, his hunchback sidekick...

Alright, alright! I get it.

I however very much like that characters aren't portrayed as "you can only be on the side of good or evil." For instance the serial killer in TtH. Is he evil for killing so many people? Or might his actions be open to justification as the souls of the murdered were necessary for his wife to physically summon Hood, which made it possible for Rake to finally convince Mother Dark to come back to the Tiste Andii... As I said, for instance. There are so many things like this going on in the books.

A motivation he was completely unaware of, so I don't think it really changes the portrayal of him. The revelation that he was not really beating up the weak drunkards he found, but instead purposely antagonizing the biggest brawlers he could find, hoping to die so his poor wife would get the insurance money from his death because he can't work anymore, though...

Yeah, I think his own personal motivation makes his actions a bit more ambiguous. I'm reminded of Buke in the opening chapters of MoI, a bit (I'm rereading MoI at the moment), in that both characters are seeking dangerous situations in a sort of death wish manner, but both keep surviving those situations due to being quite good at what they do.

[worry]

Now apply those categories to boarders. D'rek: Lawful Evil, obviously. Kan is Neutral Evil. Abyss is of course Chaotic Evil. Where are the good guys??

[Tsundoku]

[HiddenOne]

worrywort, on 26 July 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

Now apply those categories to boarders. D'rek: Lawful Evil, obviously. Kan is Neutral Evil. Abyss is of course Chaotic Evil. Where are the good guys??

I'm neutral good, so I can still turn undead