[Anthras]

Anomandaris, on 18 July 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

Fener, on 17 July 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

Anthras, on 17 July 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

Kasch you either misunderstand me or are lying. I didn't realise at first that korv had voted for you and removed until I did a re read. My case is based in possible lurking, deflection from korv and possible signalling early on. It's day one but I think it's pretty strong for day one.

Hmm. You said yourself that "we cannot lynch based on this though can we?" about the lurking thing.
And you said that signalling cases were shit.

So 2/3 of those reasons are things you don't consider strong. Or maybe 1/3 if we give you a pass on the lurking since it was you who saw him. Even so, just seems a bit like you're throwing a lot of accusations and hoping that something sticks.

Vote Anthras

Don't like his play.

Anthras, on 17 July 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Fener has been here 5 minutes. So I'll take what he says with a pinch of salt. Kasch you seem worried. I have no problem withthem lynching me first. As long as you go down next.

Anthras, on 17 July 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Convenient. before I started posting today most people were on 5 posts. So spamming or whatever you call it got the game started. Kasch your saying I'm a symp setting up Silanah as next lynch. I'm saying you are scum.

Fener, on 17 July 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

Anthras, on 17 July 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Fener has been here 5 minutes. So I'll take what he says with a pinch of salt. Kasch you seem worried. I have no problem withthem lynching me first. As long as you go down next.

Must have missed the memo where my activity had a bearing on the content of what I'm saying. Nice way to dismiss and avoid talking about it though.

Anthras, on 17 July 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

If you turn out to be innocent then I've got no reliability left in the game. People will think of me as a symp regardless of what I say or do. so why am I putting by neck out on day one? I guess I just hate quiet days. It doesn't benefit us to keep low and not say much. That benefits scum

The swing away from Kaschan to Anthras at first looks rather suspicious but then it was Kasch himself who, after a small train had built against him, voted Anthras and then Fener caught up on thread and voted Anthras too but doesn't leave his vote there long and adds it to Kasch to try and get a lynch. So the swing away here doesn't seem particularly noteworthy.

Kasch responded very quickly after he was called out, which he explained and we can't really say much about that one way or the other people will believe him or they won't. Even though his posts were defensive they don't come across as desperate and panicky. His lynch didn't quite make it there which may have been suspicious if the players (e.g. Korv, Fener) that could be seen as protectors/deflectors hadn't switched votes when a couple of people coming on could have had him lynched. It makes me think the cases made in that direction maybe don't hold so much weight.

Anthras I don't feel easy about having read over the thread and especially reading the above exchange, 'you make an accusation against me? You're a low poster and i've been around for ages, i'll not bother to address your concerns' it comes across as arrogant and dismissive and the concern Fener raises is one that made me uneasy, especially reading over it again. It feels like Anthras made a lot of statements and raised suspicion over a lot of players and situations and yet not only did he actively try and distance himself when a vote was laid on Kasch to test what he himself said but later he seems to change his mind again when it has some kind of result. He doesn't like symp cases and in fact says they never lead to results, then he goes and makes one himself. In one post he says he has no strong feelings about anyone but is suspicious of everyone and two posts later seems to be certain that Kasch is scum. It is erratic.

I also wasn't keen on the statement that he had no problem with his own lynch if Kaschan went down next. It is not only a big leap in certainty on his part but smacks of trying too hard to sound inno.

Ampelas' No Lynch argument doesn't quite sit right either since it means less information for town, which has been covered but I think considering the high amount of spam and the number of connections and cases that were being speculated on a lynch would have undoubtedly given us more to work with.

I feel as though people are drawing sides here. We got through over 30 hours of game play without a word from Fener, he then proceeds to come on and attack me or dismiss my case. He hadn't earned the right to in my opinion. I'm not saying I believe Fener to be scum. I am saying that he could not possibly have had a good grasp on what has went by. If you think i'm scummy then vote me off.

[Anthras]

You know what.

For now.

Vote Silanah

You think he is my master then here is my vote.

Now you can vote for me and i'm going to come back town, so where does that leave you? Well you'll vote for Silanah next because you'll think of me as a symp.

Then where does that leave you?

[Anthras]

What throws my Kaschan line of thought out is Korv's vote. I don't know why he voted Kasch. I know Amp didn't which fits my theory but Korv didn't.

Amp did a good job of belittling me. So I know you won't take me as serious as I want you to.

There is a possibility there are just paired killers rather than a killer and a symp. If this is the case then Korv could be town and Kasch and Amp the killer pair.

I want to see the interactions between Amp and Kasch. Also if they have off thread communication which they might then that would explain absence from thread combined with the lurking.

[Anthras]

First of all go read through the thread you will find that although Ampelas and Kaschan are on at the same time a lot they do not interact with each other except for once which i've quoted below.

Ampelas does a good job of his catch up, he doesn't even stick around until the day times out. He even mentions that a no lynch is good.

Kaschan, on 17 July 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 17 July 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Ok, I see it? What about it?

That's why the exchange is being described as a joke-spat and potentially a signal.

Ampelas, on 17 July 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

Kaschan, on 17 July 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 17 July 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Ok, I see it? What about it?

That's why the exchange is being described as a joke-spat and potentially a signal.

Ah, ok.

Their only interaction on thread. Plenty behind scenes I'm guessing.

Ampelas, on 17 July 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

Silanah, on 17 July 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

Hour and a half till lynch, I smell a no-lynch, and that makes me sad!

I am around, so will move my vote if necessary to get a lynch, but for now I still like Karosis best.

There's no problem with a no-lynch. Day 1 lynches are generall good because they provide information for day 2, but if it's not going to happen, there's no reason to force it. A dozen votes suddenly piling on at the last second just to have a lynch doesn't get any extra info. So let it time-out, I say, at this point we won't get anything more.

I disagree because we have wasted a day. We would know if Kaschan was a killer or not. That is huge information. Now we have to go through today with the same information we had yesterday.



If i'm wrong i'm wrong but this feels right.

[Korbas]

Anthras, on 18 July 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

You know what.

For now.

Vote Silanah

You think he is my master then here is my vote.

Now you can vote for me and i'm going to come back town, so where does that leave you? Well you'll vote for Silanah next because you'll think of me as a symp.

Then where does that leave you?

One vote closer to hopefully nailing scum.

[Anthras]

Korbas, on 18 July 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

Anthras, on 18 July 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

You know what.

For now.

Vote Silanah

You think he is my master then here is my vote.

Now you can vote for me and i'm going to come back town, so where does that leave you? Well you'll vote for Silanah next because you'll think of me as a symp.

Then where does that leave you?

One vote closer to hopefully nailing scum.

It is possible Silanah is scum. I don't know.

[Anthras]

That all you got to say on my last few posts? How constructive of you

[Korbas]

You're perseverating on Kasch, I'm rereading the thread.

[Anthras]

Korbas, on 18 July 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

You're perseverating on Kasch, I'm rereading the thread.

perseveratingpresent participle of per·sev·er·ate
Verb:Repeat or prolong an action, thought, or utterance after the stimulus that prompted it has ceased.

Fine.

I wont say another fucking thing. Your a knob.

[Korbas]

Anthras, on 18 July 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

Korbas, on 18 July 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

You're perseverating on Kasch, I'm rereading the thread.

perseveratingpresent participle of per·sev·er·ate
Verb:Repeat or prolong an action, thought, or utterance after the stimulus that prompted it has ceased.

Fine.

I wont say another fucking thing. Your a knob.

[Karosis]

back for today, I'm going to be busy, will be slowly catching up

[Anomandaris]

Anthras, on 18 July 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

-snip-


I feel as though people are drawing sides here. We got through over 30 hours of game play without a word from Fener, he then proceeds to come on and attack me or dismiss my case. He hadn't earned the right to in my opinion. I'm not saying I believe Fener to be scum. I am saying that he could not possibly have had a good grasp on what has went by. If you think i'm scummy then vote me off.

Yes and sometimes it is helpful to hear the opinion of someone that hasn't been around when spats have taken place and comes to it with fresh eyes, I don't think it is fair to dismiss an opinion because someone hasn't managed to get on, especially when it aims a valid criticism at you, you can't just say you are less justified to an opinion. Are you going to start dismissing everyones opinions if they don't meet a certain number of posts or a certain criteria you've decided on? If you are town, that doesn't help.

And you keep telling people to vote you off or vote me next which doesn't make you come across any more inno. I will vote when I am ready to.

[Anthras]

Anomandaris, on 18 July 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

Anthras, on 18 July 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

-snip-


I feel as though people are drawing sides here. We got through over 30 hours of game play without a word from Fener, he then proceeds to come on and attack me or dismiss my case. He hadn't earned the right to in my opinion. I'm not saying I believe Fener to be scum. I am saying that he could not possibly have had a good grasp on what has went by. If you think i'm scummy then vote me off.

Yes and sometimes it is helpful to hear the opinion of someone that hasn't been around when spats have taken place and comes to it with fresh eyes, I don't think it is fair to dismiss an opinion because someone hasn't managed to get on, especially when it aims a valid criticism at you, you can't just say you are less justified to an opinion. Are you going to start dismissing everyones opinions if they don't meet a certain number of posts or a certain criteria you've decided on? If you are town, that doesn't help.

And you keep telling people to vote you off or vote me next which doesn't make you come across any more inno. I will vote when I am ready to.

Most of town are not stupid. If i've come across as scummy then more fool me. It is easy for scum to sit back and relax here. When it comes down to it and day is going to timeout and we need a lynch who are we going to go for? Spite? No. Fener? No. You? No. Unless something comes to light it should be one of Silanah, myself, Kasch or Amp. That will determine what track we are going towards. This will provide the most information anyway.

[Sorrit]

Back and read up. While the case for Anthras false symping and being the killer is interesting, I'm going to stick with my initial feelings on Sil for now. Will be watching as the day progresses.




EDIT: added 'is interesting' in second sentence. Damn I'm tired.

This post has been edited by Sorrit: 18 July 2012 - 12:33 PM

[Fener]

Anthras, on 18 July 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

Anomandaris, on 18 July 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

Fener, on 17 July 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

Anthras, on 17 July 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

Kasch you either misunderstand me or are lying. I didn't realise at first that korv had voted for you and removed until I did a re read. My case is based in possible lurking, deflection from korv and possible signalling early on. It's day one but I think it's pretty strong for day one.

Hmm. You said yourself that "we cannot lynch based on this though can we?" about the lurking thing.
And you said that signalling cases were shit.

So 2/3 of those reasons are things you don't consider strong. Or maybe 1/3 if we give you a pass on the lurking since it was you who saw him. Even so, just seems a bit like you're throwing a lot of accusations and hoping that something sticks.

Vote Anthras

Don't like his play.

Anthras, on 17 July 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Fener has been here 5 minutes. So I'll take what he says with a pinch of salt. Kasch you seem worried. I have no problem withthem lynching me first. As long as you go down next.

Anthras, on 17 July 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Convenient. before I started posting today most people were on 5 posts. So spamming or whatever you call it got the game started. Kasch your saying I'm a symp setting up Silanah as next lynch. I'm saying you are scum.

Fener, on 17 July 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

Anthras, on 17 July 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Fener has been here 5 minutes. So I'll take what he says with a pinch of salt. Kasch you seem worried. I have no problem withthem lynching me first. As long as you go down next.

Must have missed the memo where my activity had a bearing on the content of what I'm saying. Nice way to dismiss and avoid talking about it though.

Anthras, on 17 July 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

If you turn out to be innocent then I've got no reliability left in the game. People will think of me as a symp regardless of what I say or do. so why am I putting by neck out on day one? I guess I just hate quiet days. It doesn't benefit us to keep low and not say much. That benefits scum

The swing away from Kaschan to Anthras at first looks rather suspicious but then it was Kasch himself who, after a small train had built against him, voted Anthras and then Fener caught up on thread and voted Anthras too but doesn't leave his vote there long and adds it to Kasch to try and get a lynch. So the swing away here doesn't seem particularly noteworthy.

Kasch responded very quickly after he was called out, which he explained and we can't really say much about that one way or the other people will believe him or they won't. Even though his posts were defensive they don't come across as desperate and panicky. His lynch didn't quite make it there which may have been suspicious if the players (e.g. Korv, Fener) that could be seen as protectors/deflectors hadn't switched votes when a couple of people coming on could have had him lynched. It makes me think the cases made in that direction maybe don't hold so much weight.

Anthras I don't feel easy about having read over the thread and especially reading the above exchange, 'you make an accusation against me? You're a low poster and i've been around for ages, i'll not bother to address your concerns' it comes across as arrogant and dismissive and the concern Fener raises is one that made me uneasy, especially reading over it again. It feels like Anthras made a lot of statements and raised suspicion over a lot of players and situations and yet not only did he actively try and distance himself when a vote was laid on Kasch to test what he himself said but later he seems to change his mind again when it has some kind of result. He doesn't like symp cases and in fact says they never lead to results, then he goes and makes one himself. In one post he says he has no strong feelings about anyone but is suspicious of everyone and two posts later seems to be certain that Kasch is scum. It is erratic.

I also wasn't keen on the statement that he had no problem with his own lynch if Kaschan went down next. It is not only a big leap in certainty on his part but smacks of trying too hard to sound inno.

Ampelas' No Lynch argument doesn't quite sit right either since it means less information for town, which has been covered but I think considering the high amount of spam and the number of connections and cases that were being speculated on a lynch would have undoubtedly given us more to work with.

I feel as though people are drawing sides here. We got through over 30 hours of game play without a word from Fener, he then proceeds to come on and attack me or dismiss my case. He hadn't earned the right to in my opinion. I'm not saying I believe Fener to be scum. I am saying that he could not possibly have had a good grasp on what has went by. If you think i'm scummy then vote me off.

The thread was not that long, nor that confusing. You are dismissing my case based on my actions, rather than on addressing the case itself.

[Kaschan]

Anthras, on 18 July 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

RP was the first few pages, maybe the first 12 hours or so of the day. Thread was dead. I went away this time yesterday and came back to not that much discussion. I started it and it opened up. I have done a lot more for town than you have.

Adding to these thoughts, again Kasch was quiet before the accusations and then he has had many posts since. Okay you might put that down to me accusing him and people voting for him. Fair enough. So why the fuck was he quiet before that? If he had time to post he could have but he made the decision not to, just like I made the decision to post a lot this game.

Are you kidding me? I was around day one, but I post from work. You'll notice I could only post text, couldn't see videos, asked for you guys to not spam youtube links so I could at least follow the conversation, but you flooded the thread with so much drivel I couldn't follow anything and gave up. Of course I'm going to start posting more actively once some legitimate content starts rolling in, especially when you start insinuating I'm scum just because I was looking at the thread naked before work, then say it's a flimsy case only to turn around and be 100% convinced I'm scum shortly afterward. Your reasoning wasn't consistent either--you initially discounted any symp cases as poor evidence, but that was your primary reason for wanting me lynched.

Anthras, on 18 July 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

First of all go read through the thread you will find that although Ampelas and Kaschan are on at the same time a lot they do not interact with each other except for once which i've quoted below.

Ampelas does a good job of his catch up, he doesn't even stick around until the day times out. He even mentions that a no lynch is good.

Kaschan, on 17 July 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 17 July 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Ok, I see it? What about it?

That's why the exchange is being described as a joke-spat and potentially a signal.

Ampelas, on 17 July 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

Kaschan, on 17 July 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 17 July 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Ok, I see it? What about it?

That's why the exchange is being described as a joke-spat and potentially a signal.

Ah, ok.

Their only interaction on thread. Plenty behind scenes I'm guessing.

Ampelas, on 17 July 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

Silanah, on 17 July 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

Hour and a half till lynch, I smell a no-lynch, and that makes me sad!

I am around, so will move my vote if necessary to get a lynch, but for now I still like Karosis best.

There's no problem with a no-lynch. Day 1 lynches are generall good because they provide information for day 2, but if it's not going to happen, there's no reason to force it. A dozen votes suddenly piling on at the last second just to have a lynch doesn't get any extra info. So let it time-out, I say, at this point we won't get anything more.

I disagree because we have wasted a day. We would know if Kaschan was a killer or not. That is huge information. Now we have to go through today with the same information we had yesterday.



If i'm wrong i'm wrong but this feels right.

Look at the timing of those posts. Those are all within the same 1-2 hour period (edit: Actually, since that last post isn't with me, within the same half hour aside from "oh ok") or so, during which you were busy accusing me and I was busy accusing you back. Why would I be interacting extensively directly with Amp? Trying to use interaction/lack of interaction at this early stage of the game is completely wifom, just like the analysis of selection of shelly for the nk.

Anyway, you all know I think at least 2 of Anthras/Atrahal/Silanah are scum from my earlier posts at the end of day 1, so I won't repeat myself. Just notice that as soon as pressure arrives on Anthras, Atrahal immediately begins dismissing the cases against Anthras and Silanah. I'm willing to lynch any of these 3, though it seems like Anthras or Silanah would be the more likely lynches today.

For now,
vote Anthras

This post has been edited by Kaschan: 18 July 2012 - 01:11 PM

[Fener]

Anthras, on 18 July 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

I'll be around in an hour or so properly. For now though I have a few thoughts. The first is I believe kaschan and amp to be scum. Maybe I'm totally wrong. I haven't signaled anyone, I have no problem with a Silanah lynch except that it is coming from suspect players. Vote for me you'll find I'm innocent but then believe me to be a symp. Vote for Silanah he might turn out scum you'll believe me to be symp.

Do you not find it strange that since being called out Kaschan has posted a lot. I meanALot. Fener who laid low almost all day is coming after me because he doesn't like my play. This game I was going to low post and provide content but then I saw the theme and I liked it. Sue me.

I honestly think it best you lynch me or Silanah today to clear the water a little. I don't want it getting to D day with hour doubting me and wasting a potential lynch.

Kill me or Silanah. Then you'll have good information hopefully. If you can afford to lynch us both then do.

I would happily listen if you were to provide something convincing on Amp and Kaschan, but just throwing the names out there again with nothing other than the haphazard accusations you made yesterday is weak.

Can't say I find it that odd that Kaschan posted more after being called out. People have to post to defend themselves, attacking people does tend to draw them more into the game. Also, there was more content to discuss.

Similarly, you seem to find it odd that I went after you when I got back? Is that right, or were you just throwing it out there for whatever reason?

[Anomandaris]

Anthras, on 18 July 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Anomandaris, on 18 July 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

Anthras, on 18 July 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

-snip-


I feel as though people are drawing sides here. We got through over 30 hours of game play without a word from Fener, he then proceeds to come on and attack me or dismiss my case. He hadn't earned the right to in my opinion. I'm not saying I believe Fener to be scum. I am saying that he could not possibly have had a good grasp on what has went by. If you think i'm scummy then vote me off.

Yes and sometimes it is helpful to hear the opinion of someone that hasn't been around when spats have taken place and comes to it with fresh eyes, I don't think it is fair to dismiss an opinion because someone hasn't managed to get on, especially when it aims a valid criticism at you, you can't just say you are less justified to an opinion. Are you going to start dismissing everyones opinions if they don't meet a certain number of posts or a certain criteria you've decided on? If you are town, that doesn't help.

And you keep telling people to vote you off or vote me next which doesn't make you come across any more inno. I will vote when I am ready to.

Most of town are not stupid. If i've come across as scummy then more fool me. It is easy for scum to sit back and relax here. When it comes down to it and day is going to timeout and we need a lynch who are we going to go for? Spite? No. Fener? No. You? No. Unless something comes to light it should be one of Silanah, myself, Kasch or Amp. That will determine what track we are going towards. This will provide the most information anyway.

I agree, though with mafia you can't say for sure that things aren't going to chance drastically but as far as information goes one of the players that seems to be linked to a few would hopefully give us the most information and yes you are one of those players but you started saying something similar before lynch yesterday and you've said something similar a few times today and yesterday you were so certain Kasch was scum you were willing to be lynched as long as he was next. Still, while we have a relatively long time left focus more on making cases or analysing others than repeating that you need to be sacrificed for towns sake. If you are town, that is infinitely more helpful.


The Silanah case didn't stick in my mind at all, looking back over a few posts though I can see where people are getting the feeling from. One of her first interactions was picked up by SL and pointed out as potential signalling. This isn't something that I could see at all really.

The next post was a half case against Spite for shameless spamming, or was cited as such by Sil. She votes for Karosis on the basis of his seeming to assume a symp being in the game, which is the thing which strikes me as most odd. While I don't agree with her and Anthras' opinion that signalling cases never have results, on day 1 there is so much spam that actually coming up with anything that early is unlikely and the chances are it is just reading into a joke exchange, to actually think it suspicious that someone whould naturally assume there was a symp in the game strikes me as strange. SL though so since he voted for Sil for that very reason, after challenging this view. Actually timing wise, not long after the vote on Silanah Anthras starts pointing to Korv as a symp and on this strength votes Kasch.


She also uses the defence of being someone who haas contributed cases as a reason to condemn suspicion against her

While this sways my mind more towards Sil possibly being scum on the other hand she changed her vote in an attempt to get a lynch and didn't like Amp's post or the idea of there being no lynch. A situation that has left us with not much more information than yesterday and a whole lot of WIFOM to wallow in, so no lynch has benefitted scum.

I don't have a strong feeling against voting Sil at this point but i'm not completely convinced either.

[Korvalain]

Did anthras just post 15 posts in a row further up the page, or am I getting names mixed up?

I sense Gust Hubb syndrome.

Going back to check things on my phone is a major pain, so I'll just ask. Did we get a CF for last lynch? Are we playing CFless? Also, do we think there are town roles? Because if there are not, I feel it likely there is no symp. And I don't see how Anthras with his erratic posting can be anything but scum.

Anyhow. Just some random thoughts.

[Anthras]

Korvalain, on 18 July 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

Did anthras just post 15 posts in a row further up the page, or am I getting names mixed up?

I sense Gust Hubb syndrome.

Going back to check things on my phone is a major pain, so I'll just ask. Did we get a CF for last lynch? Are we playing CFless? Also, do we think there are town roles? Because if there are not, I feel it likely there is no symp. And I don't see how Anthras with his erratic posting can be anything but scum.

Anyhow. Just some random thoughts.

Let's just be weird like your post