[Fener]

Karosis, on 19 July 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 19 July 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

Karosis, on 19 July 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Imagine my ironic pleasure to find Amp's 3 rules were directed at me...

That was a pretty case, but I didn't like the ending too much. I don't see how that I can be connected to how someone changes their vote, other than for the convenience of your case. I don't remember ever having more than 2 votes against me, so not sure how that's considered a likely lynch. Everybody's moving votes for their own reasons. I took mine off of Kash because I wasn't convinced he was scum, but put it back because he was better than a missed lynch.

"but put it back because he was better than a missed lynch" -> um... exactly? So if you supposedly applied that same logic, why didn't the others and vote for someone who was already in the lead, votes-wise, at the end of day?

What others do you mean? I was never in the lead, was tied in votes with Silanah & Kash at 2. This seems like you're making a dramatic scene out of nothing. Are you asking why no one else used the same logic as me? How could I know that?

The basis of his case is that you weren't tied with Kasch at two until Atrahal's vote (and silanah's the post afterwards, though to be fair, as Kasch I think pointed out, Sil couldn't have added a vote to any of the two in the lead without self voting), and that Atrahal's vote seems weak.

Kasch became the pile on lynch because he had the majority of votes. Amp is questioning why this happened, and saying it looks dodgy.

The level of misunderstanding and poor communication this game has really been extraordinary.

[Korbas]

Hey guys, gals. Well, I'm unimpressed with the reaction my dulled cleverness brought up. Truly, I was fishing. I figured my eyes ( ) would have caused quite the uproar. Ah well, can't blame me for trying (being not even half-assed in my play and being contentless, well, yes I take full blame).

So, my gut (and at this point my tired addled brain is only taking instinctual nerve impulses) is leaning Karosis, Atrahal, and Korv. Karosis has been playing serious since day one, and that makes me think of someone trying too hard to be town. Atrahal has been all over the map in his commentary, something off there. Similar to Korv, and he was the first to bring up the possibility of me being a symp (one who smelt it, dealt it).

But really, it's been a shitty long week with a test at the end, so I've been finding it hard weeding through all the information (convoluted as it is). I'll give it another shot tonight, but all I can do is shrug my shoulders and say "sorry dudes." Around and reading (laser vision just doesn't make life as simple as they said it would)...

[Korbas]

Fener, on 19 July 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

Korvalain, on 18 July 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 18 July 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

Korbas, on 18 July 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

You know, it's really tough being a symp. No way to get their attention without getting them lynched. No one listens to you. A thankless job, let me tell you Anthras.

Wat.

Doesn't this read to anyone else like Korbas not so subtly signaling that he was signaling karosis? Or something...

It is a bit of an odd post isn't it?

I mean "You know, it's really tough being a symp" definitely reads as "hey, I'm a symp".

While it seems to accuse Anth of being a symp, it does seem a rather unnecessary way of doing it. You'd think an inno would be aware enough not to post something that sounds so dodgy.

"No way to get their attention...No one listens to you" does seem a bit like a symp who's worried his masters don't know he's a symp.

"Let me tell you" again can be read in a way that suggests he's a symp.

It's not like that's the only way of reading it, but you'd think an inno would avoid that being a possible interpretation. I mean, it's not like it would be hard writing it in a way that is obviously addressed to Anthras throughout (indeed, I'd expect most people just to normally write it like that), rather than talking from the POV of the role itself, and it's not like he's making an important point where he might use clever rhetorical tricks to further his point.

It's easy as:

"It's really tough being a symp, isn't it Anthras?"

rather than

"You know, it's really tough being a symp."

Certainly strange.

Silanah, on 19 July 2012 - 02:16 AM, said:

Fener, I don't really get much of a scum vibe from. He has been trying to be helpful, has built some pretty decent cases (I didn't hate his case against Atrahal yesterday), and though he moved his vote to Anthras too late, he had said that Anthras was pretty much his second favourite person for a lynch.

Korbas, hard to get anything resembling a good read on him. He basically spent Day 1 spamming up the thread, his one vote was a joke vote (to Ampelas, who's the one I currently think is most scummy) which could have been signalling. Day 2, he votes for me, but never really explains himself. In the post where he voted for me, he quoted a bunch of stuff that makes Anthras look scummy, then says he agrees with the case on me and votes me. It's a little weird. Otherwise he just pipes in here and there with mostly useless posts. Then he makes that silly post about being a symp, which could be further signalling. I am thinking Korbas is Ampelas' symp.

Sorrit, has basically had a hard on for me the whole game. One of the ones who started the Atrahal/Anthras/Silanah trio thing. He was always a believer that I was the scummiest of the three. Other than that, he pretty much just throws comments on other people's cases, which isn't bad. I don't think he's scum, though, I think he's just misguided.

Well, pickings are mighty sparse, but this is some of what I was looking for. I was mainly curious who would take my relatively obvious declaration of sympish-ness and run with it, trying to pin down my master. Silanah and Korv threw out victims, and Fener spent a post pontificating.

The main ones who have seemed outraged have been Kasch, Sil, and, iirc, Amp. Others either ignore me or shrug their shoulders.

The thing I think these days we rarely see in mafia are watershed moments when all the shit hits the fan and people start acting differently. Khells was good at eliciting that sort of behavior and that, imao, is what is missing from this game. Everyone seems dulled, glazed-over, opaque, murky, etc. Nothing really stands out nice and sharp.

Day 1 was a waste, Day 2 was like a typical Day 1, and Day 3, finally things are getting a little more defined.

I still don't like Sil, and I'm inclined to trust Amp. I was hoping people would put pressure on Amp and Karosis when they saw me acting scummy, but not much luck there.

Vote Karosis

[Korbas]

Silanah, on 19 July 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

Sorrit, on 19 July 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

Ok, back and starting to get caught back up. Anthras seemed scummy, but I never got the scum master vibe off him, HENCE the reason why I didn't vote his way. I would have if you needed me to get a lynch, but enough others seemed to be happy to oblige. On Day 1, Anthras behavior looked like possible sympage or signalling to Silanah, but his strange vote switch from Silanah who at the time had THE MOST VOTES to Kaschan who had ONLY ONE VOTE after ranting about how we NEEDED to get a lynch this time is looking pretty weird.



Day 1 - Possible signalling to Silanah. She gets 2 votes on her and then a strange case builds up on Kaschan - first three voters are: Anthras, Atrahal, Silanah

Day 2 - Anthras throws a vote on Silanah, she gets to 3 votes and is the most likely lynch with 4 hours to go, and then Anthras rants about the possibility of a second no lynch then PULLS his vote off her.

To be fair, by the time he moved his vote it seemed pretty obvious that there weren't enough people who thought I was scummy to get an actual lynch.

You're basically rehashing the exact same bullshit argument people have been using against me since the end of Day 1. I just don't get how you could have so much certainty from a misconstrued joke vote. I am by no means certain of anyone in this game, even Ampelas. Your hardon for me may get me a little hot and bothered, but it's still based off of a lot of assumptions and very little actual fact.

Anthras was a volatile, inconsistent player throughout. Heck, he spent the majority of his posts spamming the thread, and causing confusion all around. If he actually was a symp, he's done a pretty good job at fooling you into believing he's MY symp. I mean come on, this is Malazan Mafia, is anyone so bad a symp that they would so blatantly symp the way you think Anthras did? Do you really consider Tattersail to be that bad of a player? I don't think so.

This. A nice subtle way of saying, I wasn't suspicious enough to most people, why should I be suspicious at all?

And the concept of "Malazan Mafia" is laughable, I must agree there. Tattersail has been playing long enough to know that sympage is a touchy subject. People usually argue it as chumminess = symp behavior towards a master. I think this is rarely the case.

OTOH, sympage provides a great means of several strategies:
1 ) symping to get someone killed (cause everyone knows killing the symp is a waste of time, go for his master!)
2 ) symping to get a reaction ("get off me!!! get off me!!! you're attracting attention to me!!! STOP!!!!")
3 ) symp distraction techniques (spamming when your master is in danger, throwing out random cases, tearing down good ones such as those against your master)

So, with Sil, I think it's entirely possible that Tats was cozying up to her for a little reverse psychology. To be frank, I was hoping to symp Tats fast enough to pull attention off of him (unfortunately no one noted my scumminess and the kid got lynched), which is why I was erratic and creepy at the end of day 2. Tat's was way too erratic to be scum killer. Symp, that is possible, killer and therefore lynch-worthy, nope...


Remove Vote
Vote Silanah

[Korvalain]

Boohoo let's complain more about how much we miss the old hands.

Stuck in a rut. And I hate this mentality that the present players suck. It really kills my will to play, but I actually see what you're saying.

No one reacts to things, and when they do, its considered suspicious. But you still ignore the fact that there are ALWAYS several people who react to EVERYTHING.

Wtf am I saying. I need to stop drinking.

[Korvalain]

We don't have that long, do we? I like both Karosis and Amp as lynches. Someone update my goddammit

[Silanah]

If I'm not mistaken, we're just under 5 hours away from lynch, there are currently 2 votes on me, 2 on Karosis, 1 on Amp... I think.

[Fener]

The "I was acting weird to try and oversymp and save an inno" line seems to have come out of nowhere.

Just, what?

I mean, for one, if you were doing that, you really didn't do a very good job.

You almost seem to be trying to defend yourself, even though you're not really getting much heat (as you say, most people seem to have shrugged and moved on. Myself included for the most part. Perhaps if you had a stronger connection with anyone the reaction would've been different).

Kind of odd how quickly you vote and remove. Doesn't bother me much since both strike me as OK candidates. Amp's case doesn't seem too bad, and Sil has seemed a bit less measured since he started going so aggressively for Amp (which seems a bit dubious to me. Amp has been fairly dodgy himself, but Sil's strawmanning (there's one post that struck me as particularly bad, and a couple others to a lesser extent) and the way he's pushed the case has actually undermined the case in my eyes a bit. Let shady behaviour speak for itself, rather than exaggerating and misrepresenting the facts). Can't say I think the reverse psychology thing is particularly strong reasoning though.

[Karosis]

Not sure bout the time, but I think Silanah's vote count is correct.

[Sorrit]

Korvalain said:

1342743061[/url]' post='980039']
Wtf am I saying. I need to stop drinking.

Keep drinking. Say questionable things. Call someone a fucktard. Spam a little.

It will make you feel better.
I promise.

[Karosis]

I don't like what Korbas is saying about intentionally trying to be a symp. It didn't work, why talk about it unless you are trying to head off cases for the future. When playing the long game, don't explain yourself - gamble & run with it. Now we will have to view everything with increased scepticism that you say, imo.

[Ampelas]

I'm back, caught up and don't really have much to say.

Korbas, there just aren't enough facepalms in the world. Look, I'm no stranger to weird and/or risky behaviour in mafia, but generally you're supposed to do it when there's actually a reason to do so...? It seems like you went to very extreme measures for a minor gain when just acting like a townie and speaking your mind coherently would've been more effective than this grandiose "scheme" of yours...

[Karosis]

I also don't like the complaining about the state of mafia, it cheapens the fun. If everybody is being dumb, stir them up. Make sterling cases or something. Half the people in here are old half are new, we have some games that seem slow in places, some are nonstop. That's the way most things are. Everybody is not a natural Mafia Master of Doom and Precision, people flail around, that's how we learn.

Jeez

[Fener]

What do people think of Atrahal?

He's my preferred lynch for today, and I want to get a grasp of how viable he is, cause I'll most likely not be here for the end of the day. I suppose the people who like Karosis as an option are gonna be loathe since in there scenario he's a symp most likely, but I think he's a strong candidate for a master in his own right.

The three main candidates seem to be Karosis, Silanah, and Amp.

All of them seem alright choices to me, but none stand out as excellent.

Like I said a minute ago, Silanah has put me off Amp a bit. Also hasn't seemed as scummy today as earlier, he's seemed more involved.
Amp's case on Karosis isn't bad. Train analysis is a good form of evidence, and it is interesting that the day one pileup onto the most viable candidate didn't happen on either of the people leading, but shortly after a rather weak vote equalised things (and Atrahal is involved again, and he gives me very strong scum vibes. I could easily see him de-railing in this scenario).
I wouldn't mind a Silanah vote, for reasons mainly relating to Anthras, but it's not a lynch I'm greatly sold on (would definitely prefer Atrahal), and with him being possibly involved as symp in the Karosis theory, I don't think it's the best lynch today.

Of these three, Karosis is my preferred choice. So:

Vote Karosis

Because I don't think I'll be around much longer, and I don't want to put vote on Atrahal at the moment in case it's a waste, considering the time. I would definitely switch to Atrahal if people think it's viable though, and would vote either of the others if needed.

Edit: Fixed my bold.

This post has been edited by Fener: 20 July 2012 - 12:47 AM

[Karosis]

I'm not gonna be around much longer tonight.

The case against me is fabricated well, but wrong for pointing to me as a killer. It's based on not what I did or said, but on the actions of others. If there's nothing better, than I guess you guys will climb on the train and ride, and we continue to be ineffective at finding scum.


@Korbas - why did you change your vote?

[Korbas]

Ampelas, on 20 July 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

I'm back, caught up and don't really have much to say.

Korbas, there just aren't enough facepalms in the world. Look, I'm no stranger to weird and/or risky behaviour in mafia, but generally you're supposed to do it when there's actually a reason to do so...? It seems like you went to very extreme measures for a minor gain when just acting like a townie and speaking your mind coherently would've been more effective than this grandiose "scheme" of yours...

oooo, you thought it was grandiose? I'm flattered.

Post too little, get smacked, post too much, get smacked.

Sigh.... how's a girl supposed to win?

[Korbas]

Karosis, on 20 July 2012 - 12:47 AM, said:

I'm not gonna be around much longer tonight.

The case against me is fabricated well, but wrong for pointing to me as a killer. It's based on not what I did or said, but on the actions of others. If there's nothing better, than I guess you guys will climb on the train and ride, and we continue to be ineffective at finding scum.


@Korbas - why did you change your vote?

Cause I voted before finishing a read-through silly goose

[Fener]

On a side note, is it just me, or has this game been more verbose than usual?

[Korbas]

Fener, on 20 July 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

The "I was acting weird to try and oversymp and save an inno" line seems to have come out of nowhere.

Just, what?

I mean, for one, if you were doing that, you really didn't do a very good job.

You almost seem to be trying to defend yourself, even though you're not really getting much heat (as you say, most people seem to have shrugged and moved on. Myself included for the most part. Perhaps if you had a stronger connection with anyone the reaction would've been different).

Kind of odd how quickly you vote and remove. Doesn't bother me much since both strike me as OK candidates. Amp's case doesn't seem too bad, and Sil has seemed a bit less measured since he started going so aggressively for Amp (which seems a bit dubious to me. Amp has been fairly dodgy himself, but Sil's strawmanning (there's one post that struck me as particularly bad, and a couple others to a lesser extent) and the way he's pushed the case has actually undermined the case in my eyes a bit. Let shady behaviour speak for itself, rather than exaggerating and misrepresenting the facts). Can't say I think the reverse psychology thing is particularly strong reasoning though.

That's hurtful

Well, not really actually... I wasn't really trying. I just wanted to prod and see if I evoked a potential, you know? I like the response from Sil. Makes me feel good about voting for her.

[Kaschan]

I'm getting the impression that Korbas is basically throwing around a bunch of bullshit in an attempt to distract from the pressure that's built up on karosis. The reverse psychology symp thing sounds like a last-ditch effort to distract from everyone. He even votes Karosis without really explaining why to distance himself before changing his vote to Silanah 15 minutes later.
This is how I view the situation, at least.

I might not be around long (debating whether I should go out later, in which case I'm napping and then leaving). I think Karosis is our best bet at the moment, especially with the clock winding down as he is the biggest train. I think he is more likely scum than Silanah based on how Korbas has reacted.

Vote Karosis