[Kalse]

Second point:

That is a really good idea actually, but can you clarify? We can't force anyone in here to reveal anything. So the person on thread would have to reveal before dying, but if they do reveal any info about themselves, it's coming up in the CF anyway. So how can we use this to our advantage? I'm just slightly confused.

[Kalse]

Third point: I think the Esper allows recruitment, which is why it is cult-only. The other Espers do other things, not sure yet. I just removed my vote and put it back on Thyr to try to derail this "dead people should be ignored" tactic, and the more information that we have here, the better off town is. And since we are assuming that the three of us are town, I will say that I have the ability to pass certain information to a living player. If we can discuss and decide what information the town needs on-thread to start finding the cult, I can be that avenue of communication. So me being dead is actually a very interesting position for town because if we play this right, town can know what's happening here AND on the game thread at the same time, something that cult cannot do.

So let's make it count.

Fourth point: I doubt we'll see many more people resurrected, if any. That's just my thoughts. I feel the Spectre Thread is not a pool from which to revive players but a place to share info, vote, and now, with a mage of Life and Death like myself here, a way to pass information back to the game thread.

[Path-Shaper]

Kalse, on 05 July 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

Vote Thyrllan

P-S, if you could make it clear in your update that I removed and then voted again separately, that would great. You were probably going to anyway but I just wanted to make sure all vote changes were displayed on thread.

Ok, done. Normally I wouldn't do that just 'cause it's easier but I can do that anytime if requested.

[Kalse]

D, on 05 July 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 05 July 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

It is Day 2. 6 hours and 27 minutes remaining
12 Players still alive: Anomandaris, Barghast, D'riss, Kaschan, Liosan, Osseric, Rashan, Serc, Sheltatha Lore, Telas, Tellan, Thyrllan

8 votes to lynch.

1 Vote for Kaschan ( Rashan )
1 Vote for Osseric ( Anomandaris )
3 Votes for Thyrllan ( Eloth, Fener, Sheltatha Lore )

Kalse removed his vote. Well their goes the voting block idea out the window.

Good, exactly the message I was trying to send.

[Kalse]

Path-Shaper, on 05 July 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

Kalse, on 05 July 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

Vote Thyrllan

P-S, if you could make it clear in your update that I removed and then voted again separately, that would great. You were probably going to anyway but I just wanted to make sure all vote changes were displayed on thread.

Ok, done. Normally I wouldn't do that just 'cause it's easier but I can do that anytime if requested.

Thank you P-S. In this instance it was for a deliberate purpose so I'll make sure to clarify in the future too.

[Kalse]

Serc, on 05 July 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

Kalse removed his vote from Thryllan. This in itself almost destroys the case against Thyrllan. It implies he is no longer sure. And our speculation was that the dead know something and their unified vote for Thyrllan was possible signalling.

Oooh, there's going to be some interesting cross-posting going around.

[Kalse]

Also, I heavily suspect Rashan as Silanah's recruit. He voted for Kaschan, a revealed roled townie, and still has his vote on him, and has essentially disappeared from the thread. So I suspect Thyr and Rashan as cult right now.

[Fener]

I'm on a mobile. I get the net on Saturday at some point. What if we voted Rashan and then Thurman again?

[Fener]

remove vote

Vote Rashan

Fener, on 05 July 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

I'm on a mobile. I get the net on Saturday at some point. What if we voted Rashan and then Thurman again?

[Fener]

remove vote

Vote thyrllan

Done like kalse' please

[Kalse]

I was having the exact same thoughts. Nice work Fener.

[Eloth]

Remove vote


Vote Rashan

[Eloth]

Remove Vote


Vote Thyrllan


done like Kalse and Fener, please

[Eloth]

Kalse, on 05 July 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

Eloth, on 05 July 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

Kalse, on 05 July 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

When Thyrllan made that comment about not returning to the Spectre Thread if he dies, I wonder if you are unable to stay a Spectre if you are killed twice? Just a random thought. Obviously it's possible to resurrect people but that doesn't mean it's going to keep happening.

I have been having a bit of a think on this.

Firstly, Silanah and their role.
1) To me, it seems obvious Silanah was meant to return to thread at some point. You don't condemn someone to SH for an entire game.
2) Because they gained a different alt, they were offered the possibility of parading as someone else - and spoiler heaven was conveniently filled with several other people already.
3) Who better to make certain decisions on what happens on thread than an (im)partial viewer from the sidelines? It might be that Silanah decided who gained what Apost'ley. So, they may have gotten to determine the first cult leader and came down on thread as that leader's henchman. A short life it would be, but still an important role to play.
4) Silanah was unreasonably tight lipped during his stay here.

Secondly, VCs.
Scum victory condition happens at a time when normally, they'd control vote majority on thread for a day.
In this game, they may remain a numerical minority regardless of their majority on thread. Hence, SH is likely to be very important to keep cult numbers down through guidance in the lynch.
We have the benefit of the doubt in that we know each other's role name and description. I think a lot, an awful lot even, is to be gained by revealing, if only so that when a player shows himself differently on thread than he did in SH, we can axe him from here on up.

Thirdly, Apost'leys.
These apparently are tied to factions - 1 for the cult (and we know from the OP that this one has the main recruitment ability), 1 town orientated (my guess is finder, personally), and 1 that is neutral in ability but can only be controlled by a town alignment player.
Hence, it is my reasoning that f that player becomes recruited, the Apost'ley moves.
They're not thinking that way on thread, and in fact, they're already on their way to confusing Spectres and Espers and losing track of finding cult by voting Thyr because he's a Spectre, not because they distrust him, like we do.

Fourthly, chances of us returning to thread.
I'd say they''re present, yet remote. We saw 3 deaths day 1 and 1 return. It may be that on days where a townie dies, someone returns. It may be that on days where there is a no-lynch, someone returns, in a quid pro-quo format. I have no clue if you are cleansed of alignment and returned to townie status when returning, but I assume we don't.

Now, since I expect all three of us to be town, I'd be interested in a debate on this.

Point by point:

1) I agree entirely. I believe the game was setup for Silanah to be here at the very beginning and return to life as either the cult master or first cult recruit at the end of the first successfully cult recruitment. She also displayed knowledge in this thread that she should probably not have had and didn't share anything. That all points to scum/cult in my mind.
2) I don't think that Silanah was offered an option. Thyrllan was not a player in the game at all until Silanah was resurrected into Thyr. There's no choice there; she didn't replace anyone, very much UNLIKE how Serc was booted out of Fener and someone else took control of Fener. THAT seems targeted.
3) Definitely possible. My guess is the cult Esper is what allows recruitment. So either she used it to recruit someone (and therefore revived), or it revived her in the process of performing the recruitment. As the person with the cult Esper dies, it will pass to another cult member and so recruitment continues normally. The Silanah-being-dead-as-game-begins was a one-time mechanic that probably will not happen again.
4) Agreed; addressed this above.

What I meant was: Silanah was identified as a player in the Silanah alt in SH. By the time he was resurrected, there were you, Fener, me and them in here. Thyrllan could have been you, me, Fener or Silanah - or pretend to be you, me, Fener or Silanah - who in the game thread could say they're not? When Thyr says he's not Silanah, but Fener, and Fener posts in here, well, say there was an alt-swap, or something? Element of surprise would have been with Thyr, to begin with
The only way they'd be revealed as not being and they could spin any story they like about alt-swapping. It wouldn't be strong, but it might work, for a short while.

[Eloth]

Kalse, on 05 July 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

Second point:

That is a really good idea actually, but can you clarify? We can't force anyone in here to reveal anything. So the person on thread would have to reveal before dying, but if they do reveal any info about themselves, it's coming up in the CF anyway. So how can we use this to our advantage? I'm just slightly confused.

We can't force, nor can we check if the reveal is true. However, if we all reveal, we can match SH to thread when someone reveals. Even if the reveal here is a lie, if they choose to reveal in the game thread (and frankly, the players there have been supremely naive in NOT pressing Thyr for a full reveal), they'll have to tell the same lie on thread or we vote them by mutual agreement due to inconsistency. If someone doesn't reveal here, well, we can vote-block them the second they return to thread.
In other words: the only way to help the town case and not be vote smacked from SH is by being open here and then consistent on thread. Naturally, there's the risk that someone will go back to the game thread and plays them AND us. Or that the knowledge will be taken back to thread by scum to profit from it. I don't know if we can do anything about that, BUT, we can't remove one another from here, anyhow, unless I am really, really mistaken. Which I might be.
So we're all stuck with one another here, for the foreseeable future (although our composition may change, slowly - I expect it overall to get more crowded).
Being extremely tight lipped here does, imho, not serve a purpose - if we can bring as much knowledge back/ to the other side as we can from here, with extremely limited means, well... town stands to profit.

Frankly, there could even be an attempt when one of us goes back to communicate with SH: "I think this and this, now you guys in SH, if you collectively agree, please add 3 votes to me, then remove them." Et cetera. We don't even need to go back, we just need someone on thread to think of this.

[Kalse]

Ok, I see what you're saying. I actually have information to solve that problem though. A player isn't alive and in the game unless they are listed in the vote updates from P-S.

However, I have the ability to see everyone who is dead, all the time, at the instant of their death. Meaning right now, the three people on my list are you, me, and Fener. That accounts for all players in the game. Thyrllan never was a player in the game at all until Silanah left Spectre and joined the game thread as Thyr. At that exact moment, Silanah disappeared from my list of dead people and from the list of active players; the Silanah alt is gone right now, no one can possibly be using it.

And in my very first dead person list update, Silanah was listed. This was at the beginning of the game. So using this info, we can entirely deduce who is an active, living player and who is "dead", i.e., a Spectre.

[Kalse]

Eloth, on 05 July 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

Kalse, on 05 July 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

Second point:

That is a really good idea actually, but can you clarify? We can't force anyone in here to reveal anything. So the person on thread would have to reveal before dying, but if they do reveal any info about themselves, it's coming up in the CF anyway. So how can we use this to our advantage? I'm just slightly confused.

We can't force, nor can we check if the reveal is true. However, if we all reveal, we can match SH to thread when someone reveals. Even if the reveal here is a lie, if they choose to reveal in the game thread (and frankly, the players there have been supremely naive in NOT pressing Thyr for a full reveal), they'll have to tell the same lie on thread or we vote them by mutual agreement due to inconsistency. If someone doesn't reveal here, well, we can vote-block them the second they return to thread.
In other words: the only way to help the town case and not be vote smacked from SH is by being open here and then consistent on thread. Naturally, there's the risk that someone will go back to the game thread and plays them AND us. Or that the knowledge will be taken back to thread by scum to profit from it. I don't know if we can do anything about that, BUT, we can't remove one another from here, anyhow, unless I am really, really mistaken. Which I might be.
So we're all stuck with one another here, for the foreseeable future (although our composition may change, slowly - I expect it overall to get more crowded).
Being extremely tight lipped here does, imho, not serve a purpose - if we can bring as much knowledge back/ to the other side as we can from here, with extremely limited means, well... town stands to profit.

Frankly, there could even be an attempt when one of us goes back to communicate with SH: "I think this and this, now you guys in SH, if you collectively agree, please add 3 votes to me, then remove them." Et cetera. We don't even need to go back, we just need someone on thread to think of this.

Ok, very true. I agree with this logic. Being open hurts cult more than it can hurt town, and town can use it to our advantage when info is passed back to a living player. Very good thinking.

[Kalse]

Also, when I make contact with a player, it's possible they could be a cult recruit. Any ideas on how to get them to prove they are town before I start trying to pass along information? My first question is going to be what their player name is so that we have it here permanently and possibly to reveal some information, like how Serc is actually the original Fener.

[Eloth]

Kalse, on 05 July 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

Third point: I think the Esper allows recruitment, which is why it is cult-only. The other Espers do other things, not sure yet. I just removed my vote and put it back on Thyr to try to derail this "dead people should be ignored" tactic, and the more information that we have here, the better off town is. And since we are assuming that the three of us are town, I will say that I have the ability to pass certain information to a living player. If we can discuss and decide what information the town needs on-thread to start finding the cult, I can be that avenue of communication. So me being dead is actually a very interesting position for town because if we play this right, town can know what's happening here AND on the game thread at the same time, something that cult cannot do.

So let's make it count.

Fourth point: I doubt we'll see many more people resurrected, if any. That's just my thoughts. I feel the Spectre Thread is not a pool from which to revive players but a place to share info, vote, and now, with a mage of Life and Death like myself here, a way to pass information back to the game thread.

I like your reveal.
I am supremely unsure about the fourth point, because this place is extremely strong for town. In fact, the more townies who die early on, the bigger our vote strength and the smaller the pool of suspects, and the more the cult is grasping at straws, most likely.
Like Fener, I was also told that my abilities are disabled while here. The wording suggested to me that there might be a (remote?) chance of going back, but I certainly can't do that by myself. Maybe someone on thread can pull people back, who knows?

As for what to tell the thread, I think the question is more: whom? And the problem I see there is the following: I think right now, Serc is town's most forceful, leading player. However, he is also the likely one to switch into Serc from Fener as per faceless man technique - if we choose to believe Fener, and frankly, based on posting style, I can, so far. So I really don't trust him.

[Eloth]

Kalse, on 05 July 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Also, when I make contact with a player, it's possible they could be a cult recruit. Any ideas on how to get them to prove they are town before I start trying to pass along information? My first question is going to be what their player name is so that we have it here permanently and possibly to reveal some information, like how Serc is actually the original Fener.

I don't know the nature of your ability, so I leave it to you In case of a one-time ability: definately someone with survival chances. If you can pick a different player each night or so, that doesn't really matter and we'd best go for someone who is out there on thread and is being believed.
The likely problem, regardless of who you pick: once your target show they know more than the remainder of the thread, they're turning themselves into a plump and nice cult victim.

Íf it is a one-use ability, or a permanent one, you might want to wait before activating it, but that's just my opinion.