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Atrahal, on 25 June 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:
Ah a fresh reread after a wasted weekend. ::stretches arms::
To be perfectly honest, considering Karo was the only one around this weekend, I decided to save my breath till I knew there were other people to talk with. I have Karo on a PI after his reveal (got to settle down somewhere on what may be D-day), which leaves me with a lot of other suspects to work through. So the first one I've turned my attentions on is D'riss.
Now you may ask "why D'riss? He's been a real helpful, almost annoyingly so, player. Are you suggesting we lynch such thoughtful player?"
Yes, potentially.
Here's why:
Um, what? Are you talking about the bit where I asked you why you were voting Meanas? Because that would be a pretty poor defence, and I asked the same of Atrahal's vote on Korvalain. Or are you referencing the bit where I said Meanas had nothing to defend against? Because I was not the first to say that. It was pretty weak play, and now you are trying to pin suspicion on me, while still sticking with your Meanas vote, that is based on nothing.
This first quote is D'riss's reaction to being accused of symping. Iirc, D'riss is one of the first to begin case debating, starting off with the case on Meanas. D'riss is also full of questions, with an emphasis on encouraging debate and discussion. Setting the stage for the massive Big Tent argument of Day 1.
So again I ask you all, how would scum play? The killers know who will come up as inno (and they only have a 1 in 10 chance of building a case against their symp if they fail to identify him early on). Having played scum before myself, I know this is a luxury. One can be self-righteous, argue with everyone, and look like the most thoughtful townie in the crowd because there is no need to rely on one's gut.
You know, this is an interesting twist in Big Tent Mafia. What if a scummy tactic is playing from the angle of complete logic and avoiding using words like "gut" and "I get the feeling." I know I've done this as scum.
So with D'riss, I have been blinded by his helpfulness and complementary nature. Quote #2 represents another aspect of D'riss that we see quite frequently: gregariousness (Duh duh duuuuuuh).
I agree that everyone talking and voting gives us good information. It also, ironically, gives scum even more material to manipulate and redirect as they see fit. We all worry about people spamming up day 1 and then signaling to their team under our noses. But we don't worry about serious contemplation because that is helpful, right? There is nothing that says scum can't be good thinkers, esp. when everyone seems scummy at one time or another. Good thinkers are wrong all the time in this game... maybe some are on purpose....
I know I made quote three a little easier to skim with underlinings. The underlinings point out 3 separate people (Omtose, Eloth, Fener) discussed/accused, ironically none of which receive the vote at the end of the post.
It's a very good post, weaving through various cases, giving some compliments and validation and dismissing/redirecting away from a case on Eloth and Fener.
So at this point, I imagine several of you saying, "well sure Atrahal, WIFOM is great and all, but what is your case? That D'riss is a good player and we should lynch him for that? WTF?"
To which I reply preemptively, yes. As I've said before in this post, scum know pretty much everyone's allegiances. There are several ways to approach a game as scum, and one way is to play very well (too well) and dole out compliments and validations to bring down people's guard. And as scum, you can leisurely tear down cases. It's nice to have a lynch, but time is on your side, not town's. So if you look less suspicious by making people think harder, three cheers for you!
This is what I believe D'riss is doing. I wish I had caught on earlier when we had more wiggle room, but there it is.
I do have work, it is Monday after all. I will easily be back before lynching time (provided you all count the hours properly and don't get panicky when there are 4+ hours to go). Due to the delicate nature of this day, I will reserve placing my vote till then.
To be perfectly honest, considering Karo was the only one around this weekend, I decided to save my breath till I knew there were other people to talk with. I have Karo on a PI after his reveal (got to settle down somewhere on what may be D-day), which leaves me with a lot of other suspects to work through. So the first one I've turned my attentions on is D'riss.
Now you may ask "why D'riss? He's been a real helpful, almost annoyingly so, player. Are you suggesting we lynch such thoughtful player?"
Yes, potentially.
Here's why:
D, on 19 June 2012 - 12:23 AM, said:
Karosis, on 19 June 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:
Eh, it was pretty much a joke vote, that's fine. I didn't really expect the Meanas train to go anywhere. But it strikes me as odd that D'Riss jumped to his defense so quickly.
That being said, the last two games I played had a no lynch on Day 1, and I frikkin hate that shit. Sure, we may end up lynching a townie, but a no lynch gives much less information than a townie lynch does. See, now if we lynch Meanas, and he turns up town, it takes some of the suspicion off D'riss. If he turns up killer, then we have a reason to look at D'riss. I don't see it as that bad of a move, specially considering how adamantly D'riss came at me and others for voting Meanas.
Anyway, I'm gonna leave my vote on Meanas. Seems as smart a move as any to me.
That being said, the last two games I played had a no lynch on Day 1, and I frikkin hate that shit. Sure, we may end up lynching a townie, but a no lynch gives much less information than a townie lynch does. See, now if we lynch Meanas, and he turns up town, it takes some of the suspicion off D'riss. If he turns up killer, then we have a reason to look at D'riss. I don't see it as that bad of a move, specially considering how adamantly D'riss came at me and others for voting Meanas.
Anyway, I'm gonna leave my vote on Meanas. Seems as smart a move as any to me.
Um, what? Are you talking about the bit where I asked you why you were voting Meanas? Because that would be a pretty poor defence, and I asked the same of Atrahal's vote on Korvalain. Or are you referencing the bit where I said Meanas had nothing to defend against? Because I was not the first to say that. It was pretty weak play, and now you are trying to pin suspicion on me, while still sticking with your Meanas vote, that is based on nothing.
This first quote is D'riss's reaction to being accused of symping. Iirc, D'riss is one of the first to begin case debating, starting off with the case on Meanas. D'riss is also full of questions, with an emphasis on encouraging debate and discussion. Setting the stage for the massive Big Tent argument of Day 1.
So again I ask you all, how would scum play? The killers know who will come up as inno (and they only have a 1 in 10 chance of building a case against their symp if they fail to identify him early on). Having played scum before myself, I know this is a luxury. One can be self-righteous, argue with everyone, and look like the most thoughtful townie in the crowd because there is no need to rely on one's gut.
You know, this is an interesting twist in Big Tent Mafia. What if a scummy tactic is playing from the angle of complete logic and avoiding using words like "gut" and "I get the feeling." I know I've done this as scum.
So with D'riss, I have been blinded by his helpfulness and complementary nature. Quote #2 represents another aspect of D'riss that we see quite frequently: gregariousness (Duh duh duuuuuuh).
D, on 19 June 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:
Good spotting, Ano. But according to my records you yourself did not remove your vote from Omtose before voting for Korbas...
I'm heading to bed and won't be back before the end of day. At this stage it's not clear where the lynch is going to end up, but we have had a great day one, so I would urge everyone to vote, it will get us sone good info.
Night all.
I'm heading to bed and won't be back before the end of day. At this stage it's not clear where the lynch is going to end up, but we have had a great day one, so I would urge everyone to vote, it will get us sone good info.
Night all.
I agree that everyone talking and voting gives us good information. It also, ironically, gives scum even more material to manipulate and redirect as they see fit. We all worry about people spamming up day 1 and then signaling to their team under our noses. But we don't worry about serious contemplation because that is helpful, right? There is nothing that says scum can't be good thinkers, esp. when everyone seems scummy at one time or another. Good thinkers are wrong all the time in this game... maybe some are on purpose....
D, on 20 June 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:
Omtose, I think the main issue against you is your vote on Korvalain. You basically said 'why not?', without going back and doing your own reading elaborating further or commenting in any other way, and then stuck rather strictly to your vote. The other thing I found somewhat suspicious was your mention of looking at people who hadn't voted yet, despite the fact that the majority of votes in the game had been joke votes up to that point. However, the way you joined in the joke voting and advocated pressuring people who were online rather than those who had disappeared, as well as your response to the case on Korbas has me thinking you're probably town.
I'm actually leaning much more towards your case on Eloth. His case on Omtose, after saying specifically that he didn't think there were enough votes for a Korbas lynch, looks a little like scrambling. He discounts the case on Korvalain in a simple sentence based on a vague mention of the way he responded to the case against him, which I personally thought was rather weak (the response, not the case). He also based his case on Omtose on 'not making waves', but Korvalain is a much better candidate for that charge. The quotes that he used were cherry-picked out of context, and he only actually used two quotes out of all the posts Omtose had made, which suggests a case made to distract, rather than a serious case, especially given the timing of the case.
In addition, the way Korvalain has been acting since the end of day sounds to me like someone very relieved to still be alive. He is suddenly acting very helpful, making cases and throwing suspicions around. The case on Fener in particular looks pretty weak, and there is very little analysis, minus some surface comments stuck in with big quotes.
Vote Korvalain.
I'm actually leaning much more towards your case on Eloth. His case on Omtose, after saying specifically that he didn't think there were enough votes for a Korbas lynch, looks a little like scrambling. He discounts the case on Korvalain in a simple sentence based on a vague mention of the way he responded to the case against him, which I personally thought was rather weak (the response, not the case). He also based his case on Omtose on 'not making waves', but Korvalain is a much better candidate for that charge. The quotes that he used were cherry-picked out of context, and he only actually used two quotes out of all the posts Omtose had made, which suggests a case made to distract, rather than a serious case, especially given the timing of the case.
In addition, the way Korvalain has been acting since the end of day sounds to me like someone very relieved to still be alive. He is suddenly acting very helpful, making cases and throwing suspicions around. The case on Fener in particular looks pretty weak, and there is very little analysis, minus some surface comments stuck in with big quotes.
Vote Korvalain.
I know I made quote three a little easier to skim with underlinings. The underlinings point out 3 separate people (Omtose, Eloth, Fener) discussed/accused, ironically none of which receive the vote at the end of the post.
It's a very good post, weaving through various cases, giving some compliments and validation and dismissing/redirecting away from a case on Eloth and Fener.
So at this point, I imagine several of you saying, "well sure Atrahal, WIFOM is great and all, but what is your case? That D'riss is a good player and we should lynch him for that? WTF?"
To which I reply preemptively, yes. As I've said before in this post, scum know pretty much everyone's allegiances. There are several ways to approach a game as scum, and one way is to play very well (too well) and dole out compliments and validations to bring down people's guard. And as scum, you can leisurely tear down cases. It's nice to have a lynch, but time is on your side, not town's. So if you look less suspicious by making people think harder, three cheers for you!
This is what I believe D'riss is doing. I wish I had caught on earlier when we had more wiggle room, but there it is.
I do have work, it is Monday after all. I will easily be back before lynching time (provided you all count the hours properly and don't get panicky when there are 4+ hours to go). Due to the delicate nature of this day, I will reserve placing my vote till then.
This is an excellent breakdown of why I suspect D'riss - he's just been too much of a smooth operator, never ruffled any feathers, never caused any ripples in the water. I will be pleasantly surprised if he doesn't CF scum at end of game.
