[Eloth]

Atrahal, on 20 June 2012 - 02:19 AM, said:

Omtose, on 19 June 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

To recap, Karosis voted and put Korv at 5 votes, while Korbas was at 3.

Eloth votes for me, and then "because he wants a lynch" switches to Korbas making it 5 to 4.

Atrahal is the swing vote, and he references me as perhaps protecting Korbas. Korbas himself then comes on and does the sensible thing of voting Korv, making it 5 to 5 since Atrahal was voting for Korv initially.

Then Liosan votes Korbas, putting Korbas ahead.

Karosis hammers.


Looking at this, Eloth does two things -

He is the one who starts the swing from Korv to Korbas. In doing so, he attacks me (an early Korv voter) and essentially sets me up as his Day 2 lynch choice, which he has followed up on with his vote today. Also notice, that Eloth disappears after the vote swings and doesn't comment again until the next day begins. He never really offered an opinion on Korv, except to say "he'd be willing to switch for a lynch" which tells us nothing.

Atrahal was the real swing vote by removing from Korv to vote for Korbas, so that bears keeping in mind as well.

k, one more thing before bed. Just wanted to try to answer my own questions. Strictly by vote movement, I would say Karosis, myself, and Eloth are the suspect ones.

Karosis drives the vote any way you slice it, creating enough of a gap between Korbas and Korv initially to push the Korv train into L-2. However, Karosis also just hammers Korb in the end. Makes me think neither of them would be a partner to Karo should he be scum.

Eloth's vote switch is suspicious, I agree. Also, giving the Korb train another push to try and out run the Korv train is very suspect.

And finally, I do reverse the momentum with my move from Korv to Korb, esp. with additional quotes to nail down my reasoning.

So far just repeating what you've said, but here is where the analysis comes in. Let's say that one of our suspects is scum (symp or killer) and Korv is one of the killers.

Karo's behavior makes no sense in that context, seeing that he nearly drives Korv into the grave.

Eloth could be suspicious in redirection, and the random vote on Omtose could be a ploy to create a little more distance. Definitely keeping Eloth on the table.

Likewise, I switch votes after a long absence, which could be construed at initially voting Korv as distancing followed by realization I put him in hot water and trying to scramble (however, this also is a stretch considering that I made a case on Korv, which would be stupid for scum).


So Eloth is very suspect based on voting patterns. I would ask Eloth why Korb and not Korv considering both cases had their weak points. Moreover, you acknowledged this Eloth when you said you would switch your vote as needed between the two.

After looking at korv and korbs posts. Korbs felt to forced. Then there was all of the I am town posts, I don't trust people who say that they are town. It screams don't look at me. Leave me alone. Hey guys don't worry I am one of you. Not something you want to drop when your under a little bit of pressure, and he dropped it a few times. Thus in my book he was more suspicious then Korv.

You left Liosan out of your analysis why?

[Anomandaris]

My post was a cross post with yours. Maybe I didn't read through the cases properly yesterday but it does look like something is there. Especially with how Eloth is reacting to prodding.

[Eloth]

You guys are bring up some good points about Fener, Amp and Korv but I think that you are overlooking something.

Hath-Daper, on 19 June 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

After the swift and gruesome death in town Jose Blanco, ex police officer, goes around to see weather he can find something useful, alas the townspeople see him looking around and feel that maybe he is the murderer.

Korbas is dead. He was Retired Talon and finder(town)


It is Day 1. 1 hour and 13 minutes remaining

13 Players still alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Anthras, Atrahal, Driss, Eloth, Fener, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose

7 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Ampelas ( Fener )
1 Vote for Anomandaris ( Ampelas )
4 Votes for Korvalain ( Omtose, Driss, Korbas, Anthras )
7 Votes for Korbas ( Anomandaris, Korvalain, Meanas, Eloth, Atrahal, Liosan, Karosis )

It is now night

-Liz

If Korv is scum which he could be then why didn't either Fener or Amp switch their votes to Korbas? If they were symp and the other killer partner I would have expected at least one of them to have been on the Korbas train. I think that the most likely senario for yesterday was that two town's had trains on them, and that each train had a killer on it. The symp is going to want to not make himself a nk target and want to make sure that there was a lynch.

[D'riss]

Eloth, on 20 June 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

You guys are bring up some good points about Fener, Amp and Korv but I think that you are overlooking something.

Hath-Daper, on 19 June 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

After the swift and gruesome death in town Jose Blanco, ex police officer, goes around to see weather he can find something useful, alas the townspeople see him looking around and feel that maybe he is the murderer.

Korbas is dead. He was Retired Talon and finder(town)


It is Day 1. 1 hour and 13 minutes remaining

13 Players still alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Anthras, Atrahal, Driss, Eloth, Fener, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose

7 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Ampelas ( Fener )
1 Vote for Anomandaris ( Ampelas )
4 Votes for Korvalain ( Omtose, Driss, Korbas, Anthras )
7 Votes for Korbas ( Anomandaris, Korvalain, Meanas, Eloth, Atrahal, Liosan, Karosis )

It is now night

-Liz

If Korv is scum which he could be then why didn't either Fener or Amp switch their votes to Korbas? If they were symp and the other killer partner I would have expected at least one of them to have been on the Korbas train. I think that the most likely senario for yesterday was that two town's had trains on them, and that each train had a killer on it. The symp is going to want to not make himself a nk target and want to make sure that there was a lynch.

I'm not sure how you have linked Korvalain, Fener and Amp. Fener and Amp weren't around until after the lynch, so didn't have time to switch votes.

[Anthras]

Eloth that was a good point,Although i don't think those three are scum i will point out that if they had all jumped on the train against Korv,Right know we would probably be lynching them.

Edit:by train against korv i mean korb train.

This post has been edited by Anthras: 20 June 2012 - 03:32 PM

[Anthras]

Fener, on 19 June 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

D, on 19 June 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

Fener, on 19 June 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Right, I've just realised I'm not going to be around at all for the next 22 hours or so, so I'm placing my vote now.

Vote Anomandaris

Because he's the killer. Duh.

First,
remove vote

Next: Y'know, I find this from Ampelas slightly weird. Why? Because we are told in the OP that there are paired killers and a symp, and specifically that PS was killed by two men. Yet Ampelas claims he's voted Anomandaris "Because he's the killer". Singular. Why would he refer to a singular killer and not (as I would find more natural) one of a pair. Unless he's the other killer!

I knonw it's tentative, but I've just woken up, and it seems to me that this is the kind of minor slip most likely to occur on Day 1. Thus:

Vote Ampelas

I think this is probably a townie who hasn't been reading properly. Surely scum would be more likely to remember that there are two killers? It's something to keep in mind, but I don't think it is worth voting someone over.

Catching up, and I find this response to my (admittedly weak) proto-case against Ampelas being jumped all over by D'riss. Plausible defence, but isn't this the kind of thing we should be alert for on Day 1? I say again, I find Ampelas's original post (quoted above) suspicious -- perhaps moreso because in the last game, Starling almost gave herself away on Day 1 by a similar category error.
And now D'riss is looking like a symp, because surely the posting style of a symp is going to be just what D'riss does above: invoke Day 1 'ill-preparedness' not much else.

I'm sure I read a response from Ampelas to the above, but I can't find it on-thread now
In any case, it doesn't appear that there'll be much movement voting-wise from the above, but I think it bears repeating. And I reserve the right to shout "I Told You So" loudly and obnoxiously should I be proved right.

But, in the interests of getting a Day 1 lynch:

Remove vote

Vote Korbas

And Fener tried to change vote.

[Eloth]

D, on 20 June 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

Eloth, on 20 June 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

You guys are bring up some good points about Fener, Amp and Korv but I think that you are overlooking something.

Hath-Daper, on 19 June 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

After the swift and gruesome death in town Jose Blanco, ex police officer, goes around to see weather he can find something useful, alas the townspeople see him looking around and feel that maybe he is the murderer.

Korbas is dead. He was Retired Talon and finder(town)


It is Day 1. 1 hour and 13 minutes remaining

13 Players still alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Anthras, Atrahal, Driss, Eloth, Fener, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose

7 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Ampelas ( Fener )
1 Vote for Anomandaris ( Ampelas )
4 Votes for Korvalain ( Omtose, Driss, Korbas, Anthras )
7 Votes for Korbas ( Anomandaris, Korvalain, Meanas, Eloth, Atrahal, Liosan, Karosis )

It is now night

-Liz

If Korv is scum which he could be then why didn't either Fener or Amp switch their votes to Korbas? If they were symp and the other killer partner I would have expected at least one of them to have been on the Korbas train. I think that the most likely senario for yesterday was that two town's had trains on them, and that each train had a killer on it. The symp is going to want to not make himself a nk target and want to make sure that there was a lynch.

I'm not sure how you have linked Korvalain, Fener and Amp. Fener and Amp weren't around until after the lynch, so didn't have time to switch votes.

I didn't link them. You and Anomandaris were linking them. I was pointing out that your linking had holes. What makes you say that they weren't around their lack of posting? Ummm lurkers. Isn't that what scum usually do?

[D'riss]

Eloth, on 20 June 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

D, on 20 June 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

Eloth, on 20 June 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

You guys are bring up some good points about Fener, Amp and Korv but I think that you are overlooking something.

Hath-Daper, on 19 June 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

After the swift and gruesome death in town Jose Blanco, ex police officer, goes around to see weather he can find something useful, alas the townspeople see him looking around and feel that maybe he is the murderer.

Korbas is dead. He was Retired Talon and finder(town)


It is Day 1. 1 hour and 13 minutes remaining

13 Players still alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Anthras, Atrahal, Driss, Eloth, Fener, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose

7 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Ampelas ( Fener )
1 Vote for Anomandaris ( Ampelas )
4 Votes for Korvalain ( Omtose, Driss, Korbas, Anthras )
7 Votes for Korbas ( Anomandaris, Korvalain, Meanas, Eloth, Atrahal, Liosan, Karosis )

It is now night

-Liz

If Korv is scum which he could be then why didn't either Fener or Amp switch their votes to Korbas? If they were symp and the other killer partner I would have expected at least one of them to have been on the Korbas train. I think that the most likely senario for yesterday was that two town's had trains on them, and that each train had a killer on it. The symp is going to want to not make himself a nk target and want to make sure that there was a lynch.

I'm not sure how you have linked Korvalain, Fener and Amp. Fener and Amp weren't around until after the lynch, so didn't have time to switch votes.

I didn't link them. You and Anomandaris were linking them. I was pointing out that your linking had holes. What makes you say that they weren't around their lack of posting? Ummm lurkers. Isn't that what scum usually do?

I haven't linked them at all. I have agreed that Korvalain and Ampelas look like likely scum, but I'm not naive enough to believe that both of them are, scum are seldom that easy to catch.

All I can go off is the info on the thread. You're getting into WIFOM territory, and tossing around lurking accusations is not going to help anyone when we have no proof and mo way to prove it.

[Fener]

Right, I have Stuff To Do, and won't be back online for a good few hours. In which case, I need to vote.

Korv and Ampelas are looking like good bets for a lynch tonight. I'm going to

Vote Korvalain

and hope I've got enough time when I get back to catch up and possibly amend based on any arguments. Catch you all later!

[Karosis]

Anthras, on 19 June 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

There is 6 hours left in the day and we have not reached an
agreement,So now if i want to lynch someone i can do 2 things:
1.Vote Korvalain
2. Vote Meanas
because the only reason that 3 votes are on Meanas is jokes(2 votes where on him from joke period and the rest just voted cause of them),i will vote for Korvalain for now AND wait to see what will happen.


Vote Korvalain

Edit:spelling

Something else I noticed while reading some past stuff - Anthras said he would be around to see what would happen. In the end his vote never moved off Korv, even though it was obvious that the Korv train wasn't going to be going anywhere before he stopped posting prior to night. But he wasn't happy to just vote, he was pushing for us to speed lynch Korv -

Anthras, on 19 June 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Guys,i don't think we are going to achieve anything by delaying the lynch longer,so if those 6 anons online can vote someone and finish day1 it would be nice.

And then when Korv called him out on the vote...

Anthras, on 19 June 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 19 June 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

You blatantly disregard the Korbas case or the fact that Ampelas has 2 votes on him.

When i posted,there were 3 votes on you and 3 on Meanas and i want a lynch so i wanted to vote the guys with most votes already.

He blames it on a 'I want a lynch', which is fine, that was his MO pretty much from the point of voting Korb. I guess what's bugging me in all of this is that he was so adamant about getting a lynch, but didn't move his vote to Korbas when it was obvious Korbas was going to be the one getting lynched. Specially after he said he would be around to change if necessary. Why be so adamant about something, then not actually do what you're advocating?

Anthras, on 19 June 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

We are losing a lynch guys, pls vote Somebody so we will get the lynch at least.

After that he disappears until about an hour after the lynch... When he comes back, he makes a comment about a possible vig then disappears again until today. All he has really done today is agree or disagree with people, no real content. I'm not too sure what I'm trying to say with all of this... I feel like if he's anything, he's a symp... but I can't see who he might be symping, unless he was really sneakily symping Korv. I dunno, it seems like he didn't move his vote to Korbas because he didn't want to be looked at the way that we're all looking at the swing votes on the Korbas train (i.e. Eloth, Ampelas, me, Atrahal if I'm not mistaken).

I am going to leave my vote on Ampelas, as I feel my case against him is stronger, less vague. But I wanted to put these thoughts on-thread, see if anyone agrees with and/or can elaborate on them.

[Korvalain]

OK, just got back from spending the morning at the dentist and tbh I'm not in the mood to argue. Can we get a current vote count?

[Karosis]

Korvalain, on 20 June 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

OK, just got back from spending the morning at the dentist and tbh I'm not in the mood to argue. Can we get a current vote count?

I believe it's 2 votes on Amp, 1 vote on Fener, 4 votes on Korvalain, 2 votes on Omtose.

[D'riss]

Guys, it is really not that hard to figure out the vote count. Fener has one, Amp and Omtose have two each and Korv has four.

[D'riss]

Interesting thoughts about Ampelas. Apart from advocating for a fast lynch (always rather dodgy) and being generally agreeable there hasn't been much play from him. It's definitely something to keep an eye on.

Edit: Ampelas should be Anthras. Stupid A-names...

This post has been edited by D'riss: 20 June 2012 - 05:11 PM

[Korvalain]

D, on 20 June 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Guys, it is really not that hard to figure out the vote count. Fener has one, Amp and Omtose have two each and Korv has four.

It is with the pain killers I'm on.

remove vote

[Anthras]

Karosis, on 20 June 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Anthras, on 19 June 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

There is 6 hours left in the day and we have not reached an
agreement,So now if i want to lynch someone i can do 2 things:
1.Vote Korvalain
2. Vote Meanas
because the only reason that 3 votes are on Meanas is jokes(2 votes where on him from joke period and the rest just voted cause of them),i will vote for Korvalain for now AND wait to see what will happen.


Vote Korvalain

Edit:spelling

Something else I noticed while reading some past stuff - Anthras said he would be around to see what would happen. In the end his vote never moved off Korv, even though it was obvious that the Korv train wasn't going to be going anywhere before he stopped posting prior to night. But he wasn't happy to just vote, he was pushing for us to speed lynch Korv -

Anthras, on 19 June 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Guys,i don't think we are going to achieve anything by delaying the lynch longer,so if those 6 anons online can vote someone and finish day1 it would be nice.

And then when Korv called him out on the vote...

Anthras, on 19 June 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 19 June 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

You blatantly disregard the Korbas case or the fact that Ampelas has 2 votes on him.

When i posted,there were 3 votes on you and 3 on Meanas and i want a lynch so i wanted to vote the guys with most votes already.

He blames it on a 'I want a lynch', which is fine, that was his MO pretty much from the point of voting Korb. I guess what's bugging me in all of this is that he was so adamant about getting a lynch, but didn't move his vote to Korbas when it was obvious Korbas was going to be the one getting lynched. Specially after he said he would be around to change if necessary. Why be so adamant about something, then not actually do what you're advocating?

Anthras, on 19 June 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

We are losing a lynch guys, pls vote Somebody so we will get the lynch at least.

After that he disappears until about an hour after the lynch... When he comes back, he makes a comment about a possible vig then disappears again until today. All he has really done today is agree or disagree with people, no real content. I'm not too sure what I'm trying to say with all of this... I feel like if he's anything, he's a symp... but I can't see who he might be symping, unless he was really sneakily symping Korv. I dunno, it seems like he didn't move his vote to Korbas because he didn't want to be looked at the way that we're all looking at the swing votes on the Korbas train (i.e. Eloth, Ampelas, me, Atrahal if I'm not mistaken).

I am going to leave my vote on Ampelas, as I feel my case against him is stronger, less vague. But I wanted to put these thoughts on-thread, see if anyone agrees with and/or can elaborate on them.

i pushed to lynch cause i had something to do and wouldn't be around until end of day so wanted conclusion of day quick .also i didn't agree or disagree with anybody i just said that the hole he found in an Argument was not so valid.
And about not making any cases,well we have quiet a number of cases already and Basically none of them have anything interesting in them.the only thing another case like that would do right now is complicating things .Also i don't have anything solid so if i post a case it will only be WIFOM and/or be seen as pointing fingers.
And the part about disappearance is quiet simple:I gotta sleep sometimes!

[Korvalain]

OK, I honestly don't feel good, so I'm going to just type out my thoughts then go lie down.

First of all, the fact that Omtose openly admits that he pushed on a case that he thought was shaky to gauge reactions bothers me. Day 1 cases suck, but the whole scenario was just too contrived, and I think that the reason why the lynch train stalled was just because Korbas was acting scummy. It sucks that we lynched a finder, but his openness to throw his vote on whichever train just didn't look good.

Second. While I don't disagree with Eloth WTF with the emotional outbursts?

Third. I never liked Amps "Here" and "Here again" posts, and whoever mentioned that he had changed behaviors seems believable.

[Karosis]

Anthras, on 20 June 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

i pushed to lynch cause i had something to do and wouldn't be around until end of day so wanted conclusion of day quick .also i didn't agree or disagree with anybody i just said that the hole he found in an Argument was not so valid.
And about not making any cases,well we have quiet a number of cases already and Basically none of them have anything interesting in them.the only thing another case like that would do right now is complicating things .Also i don't have anything solid so if i post a case it will only be WIFOM and/or be seen as pointing fingers.
And the part about disappearance is quiet simple:I gotta sleep sometimes!

SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK!!! Hehehe

Anyway, it's curious how you popped back up as soon as someone said something about you, though, isn't it? Plus, there were all of 3 hours between your last post pre-lynch, and your first post post-lynch. Are you trying to tell me that you only sleep 2-3 hours?

[Atrahal]

Fener, on 20 June 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

Liosan, on 20 June 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

eloth is voting for omtose because he feels like omtose posts but doesnt stick his neck out.
omtose votes for korvalain because he voted for him yesterday
korvalain votes for fener for vote hoping and what reads like a role reveal request.
driss votes for korvalain with some strong reasoning regarding his use of quotes out of context, a very weak fener case and a sudden change in playstyle.
I voted for ampelas as i feel their contribution has been very lacking, and only when really pushed by more players today did they give reasoning which would have been welcome yesterday when voting for ano.

In fact given that we have lost the finder it looks like both ampelas and korvalain have changed their playstyle slightly (though given ampelas barely posted yesterday it wouldnt take much. I definitely think ampelas is a low posting scum, but i can see where driss is coming from with the korvalain case too, and we also might get more info from a korvalain lynch as they were central to the behaviour of a few players yesterday, and have garnered enough attention today to give us a lot of links to other players through voting and thread activity if we get a scum result off their lynch.

Thoughts?

This summary tallies pretty closely with my reading of what happened just prior to the lynch and subsequent posting activity. I'm still suspicious of Ampelas, and if others have noticed his playstyle changing, that's independent justification for that suspicion. Korv, I'm not so sure of. Triangulating post activity makes my head hurt. I'm still gonna hold off on a vote until something more substantial comes up. I feel like the train on Korbas was subtly influenced, and I was certainly influenced. Gonna read back my post just after night fell to see if I can recapture what it was that prompted me to swing that way.

Fener, on 20 June 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Right, I have Stuff To Do, and won't be back online for a good few hours. In which case, I need to vote.

Korv and Ampelas are looking like good bets for a lynch tonight. I'm going to

Vote Korvalain

and hope I've got enough time when I get back to catch up and possibly amend based on any arguments. Catch you all later!

Unacceptable on Day 2. This is exactly the kind of thing that breaks town and builds scum. Claiming to be looking through the posts and then just dropping a vote with a promise to discuss more is no good. Discuss now!

Sorry if Fener is town this is bad play, esp with all the spam he lays down. If he is scum, this is a style that works, but is still helluva annoying.

[Anthras]

Karosis, on 20 June 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

Anthras, on 20 June 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

i pushed to lynch cause i had something to do and wouldn't be around until end of day so wanted conclusion of day quick .also i didn't agree or disagree with anybody i just said that the hole he found in an Argument was not so valid.
And about not making any cases,well we have quiet a number of cases already and Basically none of them have anything interesting in them.the only thing another case like that would do right now is complicating things .Also i don't have anything solid so if i post a case it will only be WIFOM and/or be seen as pointing fingers.
And the part about disappearance is quiet simple:I gotta sleep sometimes!

SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK!!! Hehehe

Anyway, it's curious how you popped back up as soon as someone said something about you, though, isn't it? Plus, there were all of 3 hours between your last post pre-lynch, and your first post post-lynch. Are you trying to tell me that you only sleep 2-3 hours?

By disappearance i mean between my post last night and today read the underlined part.
and i have been here since i posted about Fener and Amp and Korv.