[Eloth]

D, on 20 June 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

Eloth, on 20 June 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on 20 June 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

Liosan, on 20 June 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

Well to be fair, it was day 1 and we needed a lynch. No one wants to go without a lynch and there was pressure from everyone on who to go for. Others have already examined the train and poined out that it was the switch of atrahal and eloth that tipped it in favour of korbas. To be fair to both of them, I was always feeling more inclined to korbas than korvalain, while karosis switched twice, first to push korvalain ahead and then to hammer korbas.

I see your point but I disagree somewhat I just had to go away a little while. I think YOU, Atrahal and Eloth made sure Korbas was put down. I'll have some time to go through it but Eloth certainly didn't want Korvalian lynched with his Omtose vote and then swap to Korbas. You could have split the votes but you went and put Korbas at L1 instead.

Warning this is sarcasm....WARNING THE BELOW IS SARCASM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well done sir. You have caught me out. I did want Korbas to go down. I had completely figured out that he was the finder. I also conspired off line with Liosan and Atrahal. We thought about bringing Karosis into the conversation but held off because he isn't mentally stable. The reason you weren't included (which is why your so pissy now) is because you weren't around and have only now seen your in box. The reason that the three of us decided to conspire off line is because we have decided to sabotage all mafia games for ever more. Muhahahahaha. But now you have found us out.

We would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for those kids and that darn dog.


END OF SARCASM. THE ABOVE WAS SARCASM


Now I am for analyzing trains but come on. Both Korbas and Korv were tied for a while. I thought that based on the korbas case and his style of play that he was scummier.

While I agree that the suggestion that the final three votes on Korbas were all scum is rather unbelievable, I think the sarcasm is a bit unnecessary. I don't think it is a stretch to suggest that you had ulterior motives for your vote on Korbas. It is certainly easy after the fact to say that you were going for the one who looked scummier, but at the end of the day scum is actively avoiding scummy behaviour, so to vote for the scummier player is rather going for the obvious route.

You also haven't really addressed the issue surrounding your vote on Omtose. Why did you initially vote for Omtose after saying that the Korbas lynch did't look like it was going anywhere?

Let me ask my butfhole if it cares if you think that sarcasm is unnecassary. Hey butthole do you care that D'riss feels that sarcasm is unnessasary.....It says fart no.

I was at work and rereading the days postings. Omtose and Korbas stood out but Omtose more. It took me a while to make the omtose case (at work). I felt that Korbas was worth a vote but I thought that Omtose was playing shifty. So I voted for him. Then PS did a vote update and I saw that Korbas was there for a lynch. So I changed my vote. Plus there were only a couple of hours left in the day at that point and I would rather lynch then not. So I switched. Did you not read that page? I will go get quotes for you.

[Eloth]

Anomandaris, on 20 June 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Good summary from you.

From the wording of your post we should keep a look on Liosan in case he pulls that sort of thing again, and Atrahal also looks a little suspect but nothing overtly scummy stands out.

Yet you clear yourself.

Why did you vote Omtose then change almost straight away?

ummmm. It was my fucking summary. Who the fuck should I have clear if not myself. You for building a case on the finder and then getting him lynched. Umm I think not. See my above post for why I built my case on Omtose vote for him then decided to vote for Korbas. Mr. I built a case on the finder that got him lynched.

[Eloth]

D, on 20 June 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

Eloth, on 20 June 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on 20 June 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

Eloth's vote of Omtose seems wrong. There was no way at that time an Omtose lynch would go through. Why the vote at that time?

So your saying that there is a wrong time to build a case on someone. Why? Is Omtose your master? Are you trying to deflect my attention away from him. Well it won't work. I shall go right back after him now.

This is so, so weak. Deflection and OMGUS-ing, and a complete failure to address the question, which was completely reasonable.

Keep reading shit bird. Just because you are posting at the same fucking time doesn't fucking mean that I am not answering fucking questions. I am starting to lose my cool here, so I am going to do some work for a while before I fucking blow up on thread due to answering the same fucking questions over and over again.

[Anomandaris]

Eloth, on 20 June 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on 20 June 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Good summary from you.

From the wording of your post we should keep a look on Liosan in case he pulls that sort of thing again, and Atrahal also looks a little suspect but nothing overtly scummy stands out.

Yet you clear yourself.

Why did you vote Omtose then change almost straight away?

ummmm. It was my fucking summary. Who the fuck should I have clear if not myself. You for building a case on the finder and then getting him lynched. Umm I think not. See my above post for why I built my case on Omtose vote for him then decided to vote for Korbas. Mr. I built a case on the finder that got him lynched.

Your hung up on this. I built a case on the scummiest player in my opinion. 6 people followed because they apparently agreed with my case. The finder should have defended himself better. Now I haven't even voted today yet and your panicking. Why? I only asked a simple god damn question. You've answered but I don't think you need to get pissed off as much as you've done, we are allowed to ask questions you know.

[Eloth]

Anomandaris, on 20 June 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Eloth, on 20 June 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on 20 June 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Good summary from you.

From the wording of your post we should keep a look on Liosan in case he pulls that sort of thing again, and Atrahal also looks a little suspect but nothing overtly scummy stands out.

Yet you clear yourself.

Why did you vote Omtose then change almost straight away?

ummmm. It was my fucking summary. Who the fuck should I have clear if not myself. You for building a case on the finder and then getting him lynched. Umm I think not. See my above post for why I built my case on Omtose vote for him then decided to vote for Korbas. Mr. I built a case on the finder that got him lynched.

Your hung up on this. I built a case on the scummiest player in my opinion. 6 people followed because they apparently agreed with my case. The finder should have defended himself better. Now I haven't even voted today yet and your panicking. Why? I only asked a simple god damn question. You've answered but I don't think you need to get pissed off as much as you've done, we are allowed to ask questions you know.

I am getting pissy at Driss not at you. Also I am not even close to panicking, lets be clear. I am getting pissy. With me there is a huge difference. When I get go past pissed to irritated also a huge difference. Right now I am more or less sane but slightly pissy. I am not hung up on it. I just brought it up mainly because you were seeming to not realize that while yes the end of the train is important. Their were other people on the train and really the reason that Korbas was lynched is because he didn't defend himself. Even though he had lots of time to do so. Talon is a new player who I don't think will make that mistake again.

[D'riss]

Anomandaris, on 20 June 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Eloth, on 20 June 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on 20 June 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Good summary from you.

From the wording of your post we should keep a look on Liosan in case he pulls that sort of thing again, and Atrahal also looks a little suspect but nothing overtly scummy stands out.

Yet you clear yourself.

Why did you vote Omtose then change almost straight away?

ummmm. It was my fucking summary. Who the fuck should I have clear if not myself. You for building a case on the finder and then getting him lynched. Umm I think not. See my above post for why I built my case on Omtose vote for him then decided to vote for Korbas. Mr. I built a case on the finder that got him lynched.

Your hung up on this. I built a case on the scummiest player in my opinion. 6 people followed because they apparently agreed with my case. The finder should have defended himself better. Now I haven't even voted today yet and your panicking. Why? I only asked a simple god damn question. You've answered but I don't think you need to get pissed off as much as you've done, we are allowed to ask questions you know.

What I find really interesting is that with all this panicking from Eloth, he doesn't even have any votes on him.

[Liosan]

Anomandaris, on 20 June 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Good summary from you.

From the wording of your post we should keep a look on Liosan in case he pulls that sort of thing again, and Atrahal also looks a little suspect but nothing overtly scummy stands out.

Yet you clear yourself.

Why did you vote Omtose then change almost straight away?

Pull what sort of thing? voting? its easy to put the vote count out and assume people are just setting their vote down in some sort of conspiracy or plot but in reality there was a constant back and forward discussion going on about who the best vote would be for. I posted issues i had with both players, and while korv tried to answer, korbas didnt. even after i put my vote on him, his only response was that "i am not going to come back guilty" which isnt the sort of defense you expect a finder to make.

This is getting us nowhere. we have thirteen hours which means day finsihes in the middle of my sleep. No one has commented on my case, and the other cases are also being ignored. Can we get back on track?

[D'riss]

Eloth, on 20 June 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on 20 June 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Eloth, on 20 June 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on 20 June 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Good summary from you.

From the wording of your post we should keep a look on Liosan in case he pulls that sort of thing again, and Atrahal also looks a little suspect but nothing overtly scummy stands out.

Yet you clear yourself.

Why did you vote Omtose then change almost straight away?

ummmm. It was my fucking summary. Who the fuck should I have clear if not myself. You for building a case on the finder and then getting him lynched. Umm I think not. See my above post for why I built my case on Omtose vote for him then decided to vote for Korbas. Mr. I built a case on the finder that got him lynched.

Your hung up on this. I built a case on the scummiest player in my opinion. 6 people followed because they apparently agreed with my case. The finder should have defended himself better. Now I haven't even voted today yet and your panicking. Why? I only asked a simple god damn question. You've answered but I don't think you need to get pissed off as much as you've done, we are allowed to ask questions you know.

I am getting pissy at Driss not at you. Also I am not even close to panicking, lets be clear. I am getting pissy. With me there is a huge difference. When I get go past pissed to irritated also a huge difference. Right now I am more or less sane but slightly pissy. I am not hung up on it. I just brought it up mainly because you were seeming to not realize that while yes the end of the train is important. Their were other people on the train and really the reason that Korbas was lynched is because he didn't defend himself. Even though he had lots of time to do so. Talon is a new player who I don't think will make that mistake again.

Sure. Whatever. People have been asking you pretty much since you made that case for the reasoning behind it, so I'm not quite sure why you have fixated on me. In addition, your response to Ano made it rather obvious that you didn't want to answer the question. Why so defensive?

[Karosis]

Eloth, on 20 June 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

All of that on a train that YOU started on player who turned out to be a finder. Now what have we learned. Well the main thing to me is that you shouldn't be allowed to build cases as somehow you have a nose for lynching the finder. Really the only thing that we have learned is that Liosan put Korbas over Korv. But even then the vote was close enough that if Korbas had offered a reason not to lynch him it would have flipped over to korv. There really isn't anything more in the train then that.

Did Anomandaris really START the train? Who were the other few first ones on the train? I'm still a little iffy about Atrahal, but his input over the last day has been quite extensive and well thought out, and so my suspicions have lessened. However, after reading Anomandaris' posts, I'm getting a little less sure about him, and your statement that HE started the Korbas train stood out to me. Who were the next two on the train? I could definitely see Anomandaris trying to make it look like others on the train were the scum. Gonna take some time to reread some Anomandaris posting, and probably some Atrahal posting too, see if I can dig up anything interesting.

[Liosan]

Eloth, on 19 June 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

Karosis, on 19 June 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Another thing that I noticed that rang some bells is that both Atrahal and Eloth made a case against Omtose then jumped on one of the lynch trains almost immediately after that. I'm still digging to get something more substantial... Of the two, I like Atrahal's posts the least - he didn't seem to create much accusations himself, but used other people's accusations to put fire under the lynch Korbas train (i.e. Korbas stated he was town, which Liosan first pointed out, then basically agreeing with D'riss' accusation that Korbas was suspicious). Just seems a little scummy to me, so right now, I'm looking at either Ampelas or Atrahal. Will lay a vote down when I get some more information!

I still like Omtose for scum. I felt that I made my case to late in the day to actually get a lynch, and it is better to lynch then not to. Even in this case. Someone stating that they are town in mafia is worth a less then nothing. So I am not going to hold that against Liosan. To go back to the Omtose case. I feel that yesterday he was interacting with players but not putting his neck out. Of course the same thing can be said of Ampelas. But my attention was grabbed by Omtose. See my previous case for the quotes.

Vote Omtose

Eloths case on omtose, what i find most strange in today is the voting pattern.

Omtose, on 19 June 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

Way to go dipshits.

Vote Korvalain

That was a lovely derail, and I'd put money on Eloth being a symp.


@Eloth, your "case" is based on me not putting my neck out.

1) I voted for Korv early, and I stuck with my vote.
2) I stated outright that I didn't think Korbas was as scummy as Korvalain. I could have been wishy washy and said "oh, I think he's scummy too and I'll switch at will". But instead, I gave a clear opinion.
3) I was also being a dick at the beginning of the game.

I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to do to "stick my neck out" on day 1. I mean, you didnt even stick your neck IN to the game until it came time to derail and lynch the finder....

omtose case on korvalain. so eloth votes omtose, then omtose votes korvalain.

Korvalain, on 19 June 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

The Omtose case isn't bad.

But re-reading, I didn't like Fener's vote hopping, and this sort of thing always bugs me:

Fener, on 19 June 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

D, on 19 June 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

Fener, on 19 June 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Right, I've just realised I'm not going to be around at all for the next 22 hours or so, so I'm placing my vote now.

Vote Anomandaris

Because he's the killer. Duh.

First,
remove vote

Next: Y'know, I find this from Ampelas slightly weird. Why? Because we are told in the OP that there are paired killers and a symp, and specifically that PS was killed by two men. Yet Ampelas claims he's voted Anomandaris "Because he's the killer". Singular. Why would he refer to a singular killer and not (as I would find more natural) one of a pair. Unless he's the other killer!

I knonw it's tentative, but I've just woken up, and it seems to me that this is the kind of minor slip most likely to occur on Day 1. Thus:

Vote Ampelas

I think this is probably a townie who hasn't been reading properly. Surely scum would be more likely to remember that there are two killers? It's something to keep in mind, but I don't think it is worth voting someone over.

Catching up, and I find this response to my (admittedly weak) proto-case against Ampelas being jumped all over by D'riss. Plausible defence, but isn't this the kind of thing we should be alert for on Day 1? I say again, I find Ampelas's original post (quoted above) suspicious -- perhaps moreso because in the last game, Starling almost gave herself away on Day 1 by a similar category error.
And now D'riss is looking like a symp, because surely the posting style of a symp is going to be just what D'riss does above: invoke Day 1 'ill-preparedness' not much else.

I'm sure I read a response from Ampelas to the above, but I can't find it on-thread now
In any case, it doesn't appear that there'll be much movement voting-wise from the above, but I think it bears repeating. And I reserve the right to shout "I Told You So" loudly and obnoxiously should I be proved right.

But, in the interests of getting a Day 1 lynch:

Remove vote

Vote Korbas

Fener, on 19 June 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

Bah, I was too late.

I feel like that kind of last minute hammer looks a lot like trying to blend in with the town.

Fener, on 19 June 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

Well, at least we now know that there are townies with roles -- maybe a doc among us? Definitely be worth being substantive with cases from now on. I realise my vote for Korb above, though late, would have ticked us over to night and mea proxima culpa, but hey -- wasn'me!

And Eloth or Karosis pointed out that this looks a lot like fishing for other roled players. FFS if you are roled please don't reveal! You may as well be painting a target on yourself.

vote Fener

then korvalain votes for fener, with a very long case.

D, on 20 June 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

Omtose, I think the main issue against you is your vote on Korvalain. You basically said 'why not?', without going back and doing your own reading elaborating further or commenting in any other way, and then stuck rather strictly to your vote. The other thing I found somewhat suspicious was your mention of looking at people who hadn't voted yet, despite the fact that the majority of votes in the game had been joke votes up to that point. However, the way you joined in the joke voting and advocated pressuring people who were online rather than those who had disappeared, as well as your response to the case on Korbas has me thinking you're probably town.

I'm actually leaning much more towards your case on Eloth. His case on Omtose, after saying specifically that he didn't think there were enough votes for a Korbas lynch, looks a little like scrambling. He discounts the case on Korvalain in a simple sentence based on a vague mention of the way he responded to the case against him, which I personally thought was rather weak (the response, not the case). He also based his case on Omtose on 'not making waves', but Korvalain is a much better candidate for that charge. The quotes that he used were cherry-picked out of context, and he only actually used two quotes out of all the posts Omtose had made, which suggests a case made to distract, rather than a serious case, especially given the timing of the case.

In addition, the way Korvalain has been acting since the end of day sounds to me like someone very relieved to still be alive. He is suddenly acting very helpful, making cases and throwing suspicions around. The case on Fener in particular looks pretty weak, and there is very little analysis, minus some surface comments stuck in with big quotes.

Vote Korvalain.

Then driss votes for korvalain as well, with a much more info than omtose who basically kept his grudge from the day before.

Liosan, on 20 June 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Korvalain, on 19 June 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

Karosis, on 19 June 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

Anyone else find this a little weird?

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Right, I've just realised I'm not going to be around at all for the next 22 hours or so, so I'm placing my vote now.

Vote Anomandaris

Because he's the killer. Duh.

Ampelas posted very little in terms of content, then said he was going to bed, and threw a completely useless vote at Anomandaris without any explanation whatsoever for why. I think of everyone who was posting yesterday, Anomandaris seemed pretty level headed, didn't make any blatantly obvious scum moves, etc. Thought that COULD be an indication of why Amp voted for him, I'd like to hear Amp's reasoning for an Anomandaris vote.

xpost with Karosis. I agree, that was totally out in left field.

A few people brought this up yesterday and we didnt really get a response about it, i included it in my ampelas case and vote as well case for ameplas link.

Ampelas, on 19 June 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

At the time the numbers of votes on individuals were low and it was still early in the day, so it wouldn't have been a useless vote if people had decided to follow it. Certainly, it would have been a better choice than Korbas?

I chose Anomandaris because I chose between him and Liosan. At the time they were both in the middle posters, and Anomandaris appeared the more....what did you call it, level-headed? That's it exactly. Non-commital is another way of putting it.


Having said that, out of everything that came up after I left, I liked Eloth's case on Omtose the best. It always raises my suspicions when someone on day 1 talks about not believing another player's CF will come up scum. How would you know on day 1? What exactly are you basing this almost-certainty on, unless you have some prior knowledge? And who has prior knowledge in an M&P game? Only one answer to that (well, fine, two if you count symp ).

If ampelas had of posted it with some reasoning like above we might have taken a different view, the fact that he comes up with a good reasoning a day late when the number of people questioning it has gone from two to four is more than a little odd and makes the complete lack of content on day 1 all the more striking.

vote ampelas

You know i didnt like the way you were playing on day 1, and this response proves to my mind that it was a deliberate attempt at not posting rather than having nothing to say.

And finally i vote for ampelas.

eloth is voting for omtose because he feels like omtose posts but doesnt stick his neck out.
omtose votes for korvalain because he voted for him yesterday
korvalain votes for fener for vote hoping and what reads like a role reveal request.
driss votes for korvalain with some strong reasoning regarding his use of quotes out of context, a very weak fener case and a sudden change in playstyle.
I voted for ampelas as i feel their contribution has been very lacking, and only when really pushed by more players today did they give reasoning which would have been welcome yesterday when voting for ano.

In fact given that we have lost the finder it looks like both ampelas and korvalain have changed their playstyle slightly (though given ampelas barely posted yesterday it wouldnt take much. I definitely think ampelas is a low posting scum, but i can see where driss is coming from with the korvalain case too, and we also might get more info from a korvalain lynch as they were central to the behaviour of a few players yesterday, and have garnered enough attention today to give us a lot of links to other players through voting and thread activity if we get a scum result off their lynch.

Thoughts?

[Liosan]

Hath-Daper, on 20 June 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

Whoops:

It is Day 2. 11 hours and 42 minutes remaining

11 Players still alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Anthras, Atrahal, Driss, Eloth, Fener, Karosis, Korvalain, Liosan, Omtose

6 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Ampelas ( Liosan )
1 Vote for Fener ( Korvalain )
2 Votes for Korvalain ( Omtose, Driss )
2 Votes for Omtose ( Eloth, Atrahal )

Players not voted: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Anthras, Fener, Karosis

double whoops - atrahal removed their vote

[Karosis]

Ampelas, on 19 June 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

At the time the numbers of votes on individuals were low and it was still early in the day, so it wouldn't have been a useless vote if people had decided to follow it. Certainly, it would have been a better choice than Korbas?

I chose Anomandaris because I chose between him and Liosan. At the time they were both in the middle posters, and Anomandaris appeared the more....what did you call it, level-headed? That's it exactly. Non-commital is another way of putting it.


Having said that, out of everything that came up after I left, I liked Eloth's case on Omtose the best. It always raises my suspicions when someone on day 1 talks about not believing another player's CF will come up scum. How would you know on day 1? What exactly are you basing this almost-certainty on, unless you have some prior knowledge? And who has prior knowledge in an M&P game? Only one answer to that (well, fine, two if you count symp ).

I can't help but coming back to Ampelas. He only gave us a reason for his Anomandaris vote today after we had asked. He told us it was just as good a vote as any at the time. Let's have a look at where the votes were (this is the first Path Shaper message after his vote)

Hath-Daper, on 19 June 2012 - 04:42 AM, said:

It is Day 1. 13 hours and 42 minutes remaining
13 Players still alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Anthras, Atrahal, Driss, Eloth, Fener, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose

7 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

2 Votes for Korvalain ( Atrahal, Omtose )
3 Votes for Meanas ( Eloth, Karosis, Korbas )
2 Votes for Ampelas ( Meanas, Fener )
1 Vote for Omtose ( Anomandaris )
1 Vote for Anomandaris ( Ampelas )

Players not voted: Anthras, Driss, Korvalain, Liosan

-Liz

So there are a a couple of better places he could have put his vote. The case on Korv was STARTING to pick up steam by that point, and Meanas had a vote on Amp, but rather than either of those, he plops a vote on Anomandaris. I guess my biggest problem with all of this is the following line:

Ampelas, on 19 June 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

At the time the numbers of votes on individuals were low and it was still early in the day, so it wouldn't have been a useless vote if people had decided to follow it. Certainly, it would have been a better choice than Korbas?

Why would ANYONE have followed his vote on Anomandaris? His reasoning for his vote was as follows:

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Right, I've just realised I'm not going to be around at all for the next 22 hours or so, so I'm placing my vote now.

Vote Anomandaris

Because he's the killer. Duh.

That's not a case. That's a lazy "I'm not going to be around" vote.

Aside from his less than stellar defense, however, Ampelas has pretty much contributed nothing to the thread besides OMGUSing about the Korbas lynch, blah blah blah. So, for now, I will...

vote Ampelas


Editted: added Amp's name to the part about Meanas' vote to make clear what I was saying

This post has been edited by Karosis: 20 June 2012 - 02:35 PM

[Fener]

Liosan, on 20 June 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

eloth is voting for omtose because he feels like omtose posts but doesnt stick his neck out.
omtose votes for korvalain because he voted for him yesterday
korvalain votes for fener for vote hoping and what reads like a role reveal request.
driss votes for korvalain with some strong reasoning regarding his use of quotes out of context, a very weak fener case and a sudden change in playstyle.
I voted for ampelas as i feel their contribution has been very lacking, and only when really pushed by more players today did they give reasoning which would have been welcome yesterday when voting for ano.

In fact given that we have lost the finder it looks like both ampelas and korvalain have changed their playstyle slightly (though given ampelas barely posted yesterday it wouldnt take much. I definitely think ampelas is a low posting scum, but i can see where driss is coming from with the korvalain case too, and we also might get more info from a korvalain lynch as they were central to the behaviour of a few players yesterday, and have garnered enough attention today to give us a lot of links to other players through voting and thread activity if we get a scum result off their lynch.

Thoughts?

This summary tallies pretty closely with my reading of what happened just prior to the lynch and subsequent posting activity. I'm still suspicious of Ampelas, and if others have noticed his playstyle changing, that's independent justification for that suspicion. Korv, I'm not so sure of. Triangulating post activity makes my head hurt. I'm still gonna hold off on a vote until something more substantial comes up. I feel like the train on Korbas was subtly influenced, and I was certainly influenced. Gonna read back my post just after night fell to see if I can recapture what it was that prompted me to swing that way.

[D'riss]

Liosan, on 20 June 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

eloth is voting for omtose because he feels like omtose posts but doesnt stick his neck out.
omtose votes for korvalain because he voted for him yesterday
korvalain votes for fener for vote hoping and what reads like a role reveal request.
driss votes for korvalain with some strong reasoning regarding his use of quotes out of context, a very weak fener case and a sudden change in playstyle.
I voted for ampelas as i feel their contribution has been very lacking, and only when really pushed by more players today did they give reasoning which would have been welcome yesterday when voting for ano.

In fact given that we have lost the finder it looks like both ampelas and korvalain have changed their playstyle slightly (though given ampelas barely posted yesterday it wouldnt take much. I definitely think ampelas is a low posting scum, but i can see where driss is coming from with the korvalain case too, and we also might get more info from a korvalain lynch as they were central to the behaviour of a few players yesterday, and have garnered enough attention today to give us a lot of links to other players through voting and thread activity if we get a scum result off their lynch.

Thoughts?

This is a good summary, and it really puts things in perspective. We have practically no cohesion in this game, and it is starting to worry me.

I've looked back at your case on Amp, and trawled the thread for his posts. There aren't many of them. I do see your point, some things Amp has said have really stuck out to me, in particular that vote and the reasoning behind it. He is saying basically that he hat-picked two middle-range posters and decided which was scummier. His small spate of posts has shown that he can contribute when pressed, and I really do not believe anyone who says there is nothing to comment on, even on day one.

The thing that has me most stuck on Korvalain at the moment is the response by Eloth. It is out of proportion to the pressure being put on him, which was basically around the question of his vote. This suggests to me that there is something else on the thread stressing him out, and he has already been connected to Korvalain. I think it is likely he is Korvalain's symp, which is why my vote is currently staying on Korvalain. I also agree with your assessment of the info we can garner from the lynch. Ampelas' lynch will not give us much info, he has had very few interactions so far.

[Anomandaris]

Both Korv and Amp's name keeps cropping up. Amp for his weird play yesterday. What was the original lynch train on Korv for?

I do agree Eloth's behaviour seems a little frantic today and that Korv should be looked at.

Vote Korvalian

[Eloth]

Omtose, on 19 June 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

To recap, Karosis voted and put Korv at 5 votes, while Korbas was at 3.

Eloth votes for me, and then "because he wants a lynch" switches to Korbas making it 5 to 4.

Atrahal is the swing vote, and he references me as perhaps protecting Korbas. Korbas himself then comes on and does the sensible thing of voting Korv, making it 5 to 5 since Atrahal was voting for Korv initially.

Then Liosan votes Korbas, putting Korbas ahead.

Karosis hammers.


Looking at this, Eloth does two things -

He is the one who starts the swing from Korv to Korbas. In doing so, he attacks me (an early Korv voter) and essentially sets me up as his Day 2 lynch choice, which he has followed up on with his vote today. Also notice, that Eloth disappears after the vote swings and doesn't comment again until the next day begins. He never really offered an opinion on Korv, except to say "he'd be willing to switch for a lynch" which tells us nothing.

Atrahal was the real swing vote by removing from Korv to vote for Korbas, so that bears keeping in mind as well.

Well first off I wasn't originally voting for Korv I had a very early joke vote on Meanas. Then I came back to the game and reread the day and build a case on you. While commenting that Korbas was suspicious. So your incorrect when you say that I started the vote swing. As for setting you up as a day 2 lynch. There seems to be more interest in a Korv lynch. Your analysis is poor and your conclusions are a stretch. Basically you are saying that the two people who made cases on you are both suspicious. OMGUS really.

[Eloth]

D, on 20 June 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

Liosan, on 20 June 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

eloth is voting for omtose because he feels like omtose posts but doesnt stick his neck out.
omtose votes for korvalain because he voted for him yesterday
korvalain votes for fener for vote hoping and what reads like a role reveal request.
driss votes for korvalain with some strong reasoning regarding his use of quotes out of context, a very weak fener case and a sudden change in playstyle.
I voted for ampelas as i feel their contribution has been very lacking, and only when really pushed by more players today did they give reasoning which would have been welcome yesterday when voting for ano.

In fact given that we have lost the finder it looks like both ampelas and korvalain have changed their playstyle slightly (though given ampelas barely posted yesterday it wouldnt take much. I definitely think ampelas is a low posting scum, but i can see where driss is coming from with the korvalain case too, and we also might get more info from a korvalain lynch as they were central to the behaviour of a few players yesterday, and have garnered enough attention today to give us a lot of links to other players through voting and thread activity if we get a scum result off their lynch.

Thoughts?

This is a good summary, and it really puts things in perspective. We have practically no cohesion in this game, and it is starting to worry me.

I've looked back at your case on Amp, and trawled the thread for his posts. There aren't many of them. I do see your point, some things Amp has said have really stuck out to me, in particular that vote and the reasoning behind it. He is saying basically that he hat-picked two middle-range posters and decided which was scummier. His small spate of posts has shown that he can contribute when pressed, and I really do not believe anyone who says there is nothing to comment on, even on day one.

The thing that has me most stuck on Korvalain at the moment is the response by Eloth. It is out of proportion to the pressure being put on him, which was basically around the question of his vote. This suggests to me that there is something else on the thread stressing him out, and he has already been connected to Korvalain. I think it is likely he is Korvalain's symp, which is why my vote is currently staying on Korvalain. I also agree with your assessment of the info we can garner from the lynch. Ampelas' lynch will not give us much info, he has had very few interactions so far.

Ahhhhh you caught me there is so much pressure. It is hurting the inside of my brain. OH no it is starting to get to me. Ahhhhh nooooooooooooooo..................




You caught me out I was Korv's symp.... God Korv it was fun while it lasted. But can you guess who the other player who I am symping is...... IT IS OMTOSE.... MUhahahaha.....


Do I really need to post that the above is sarcasm... I think so. Wouldn't want it misinterpreted as anything but.

[Anomandaris]

Anyone else notice these exchanges between Amp and Korvalian? Korvalian votes for him and then drops it from the little response that Amp gave.

Korvalain, on 18 June 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Yeah, Meanas is pretty random.

remove Vote

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Here.

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

Here again.

Scum or lazy townie, you've got to do better than that. ^^

vote Ampelas

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

Fener, on 18 June 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 18 June 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Yeah, Meanas is pretty random.

remove Vote

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Here.

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

Here again.

Scum or lazy townie, you've got to do better than that. ^^

vote Ampelas

While low-posting is not necessarily scummy, it's also not good town play. But pressures of RL do intrude, so are we not going to cut people any slack?
No? OK then.


Vote Ampelas

What would you like me to comment on?

If it's who I find the most scummy right now, it's you Fener, for so quickly following

If it's on what I make of the game so far - I have no comment for the moment.

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 18 June 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Yeah, Meanas is pretty random.

remove Vote

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Here.

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

Here again.

Scum or lazy townie, you've got to do better than that. ^^

vote Ampelas

Point me towards your contribution if you may be so kind. I keep looking, but I can't seem to find it.

Korvalain, on 18 June 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 18 June 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Yeah, Meanas is pretty random.

remove Vote

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Here.

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

Here again.

Scum or lazy townie, you've got to do better than that. ^^

vote Ampelas

Point me towards your contribution if you may be so kind. I keep looking, but I can't seem to find it.

IT SPEAKS MORE THAN 3 WORDS! I'm satisfied, now we're tied.

remove Vote

I agree Fener is a bit overzealous in his following.

Then Korv accuses Fener of following and is agreeable with Amp??

[D'riss]

This is the original case, and Korvalain's reply:

Korvalain, on 19 June 2012 - 02:15 AM, said:

Atrahal, on 19 June 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

D, on 18 June 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 18 June 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

Hey now, everyone is allowed an entrance.

sure, but why have you left your vote on Korvalain?

You know, originally it was because that was the order of the vote count in PS's most recent post. Actually, now I think I'm leaving it there. I was glancing over Korv's stuff and he's playing agreeable, light and fluffy. I'm trying to get in the scummy mindset to think how one would play on day 1. Best bet is to play it cool, not stand out. As I believe ansible has said (hopefully not crediting the wrong person), scum almost always play as middle posters if one leafs back through the previous games. Very cool observation.

So with Korv, he votes for Meanas, and then retracts and moves to Amp as a low poster. He teases Liz, points out D'riss' absence, and most recently agrees with the Big Tent following. All together, this is a pretty benign, even seemingly helpful (not really that helpful though) playstyle. I think we may have our first of the pair.

Because responses are expected, let's break it down:

Watch out kids I'm going to make a list!!!

1) "he votes for Meanas, and then retracts" - This is what we call the 'gag' vote. Meanas says that I don't exist, and I come back with a quote from Descartes as to why I must exist, and make a counteraccusation based on that argument. IT'S ALL RIGHT THOUGH. I wasn't REALLY going to vote Meanas based on a philosophical argument. I REMOVED THE VOTE. Particularly when I saw other people voting on him for no other reason than he already had a few.

2) "moves to Amp as a low poster" - This is a textbook response to someone posting.... WAIT FOR IT... 3 WORDS. Amp came back on to play, and the vote was removed.

3) "He teases Liz" - Guilty as charged! Hi Lizzy!

4) "agrees with the Big Tent following" - Wow, I agreed with the part in Big Tent about how people that agree with or defend OTHER PLAYERS should not be considered guilty, and I'm automatically guilty. Priceless.

Soooo in summary I think I'm guilty of teasing Liz and being a list maker. As far as crappy day one cases go, I guess you could go ahead and lynch me. I'm even getting ready to go to bed soon, so you have the perfect opportunity.

What I've been doing though is watching the interactions and making my opinions, so far (oh yeah baby another list! I'm playing with fire!!!):

1) Fener changes his vote whenever the winds change to follow someone (anyone) else.

2) Korbas is just happy to throw his vote down on anyone with a majority.

3) Karosis will continue arguing, even though he said he isn't going to, because he wants to prove something to us.

Anyway, I'm going to bed. I'll vote when I wake up tomorrow. Right now I'm leaning towards Korbas and Fener.

This is my addition to the case:

D, on 19 June 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

Having gone back to take another look at day one, I'm inclined to agree with the suspicions against Korvalain. He is one of the highest posters, but there is surprisingly little content in his posts. Apart from joke votes, needling PS and that terrifying 'skullet' pic he has made one case and defended himself against another. He has made no effort to comment on any of the other cases apart from a non-committal agreement that people disagreeing with cases are not necessarily symping.

The response to the case against him looks substantial, but doesn't really address the main issue, which is that he has remained pretty much non-committal has been trying to blend in and not make any waves, acting in general agreeably. He merely responds to the examples, not to the underlying issue. He ends by casting suspicion on other players in order to look like he is contributing, but the examples he points out are overly simplistic. they don't constitute a case on anyone, they are simply surface observations that anyone could have made.

Korvalain, on 19 June 2012 - 02:15 AM, said:

Atrahal, on 19 June 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

[Snip]

You know, originally it was because that was the order of the vote count in PS's most recent post. Actually, now I think I'm leaving it there. I was glancing over Korv's stuff and he's playing agreeable, light and fluffy. I'm trying to get in the scummy mindset to think how one would play on day 1. Best bet is to play it cool, not stand out. As I believe ansible has said (hopefully not crediting the wrong person), scum almost always play as middle posters if one leafs back through the previous games. Very cool observation.

So with Korv, he votes for Meanas, and then retracts and moves to Amp as a low poster. He teases Liz, points out D'riss' absence, and most recently agrees with the Big Tent following. All together, this is a pretty benign, even seemingly helpful (not really that helpful though) playstyle. I think we may have our first of the pair.

Because responses are expected, let's break it down:

Watch out kids I'm going to make a list!!!

1) "he votes for Meanas, and then retracts" - This is what we call the 'gag' vote. Meanas says that I don't exist, and I come back with a quote from Descartes as to why I must exist, and make a counteraccusation based on that argument. IT'S ALL RIGHT THOUGH. I wasn't REALLY going to vote Meanas based on a philosophical argument. I REMOVED THE VOTE. Particularly when I saw other people voting on him for no other reason than he already had a few.

2) "moves to Amp as a low poster" - This is a textbook response to someone posting.... WAIT FOR IT... 3 WORDS. Amp came back on to play, and the vote was removed.

3) "He teases Liz" - Guilty as charged! Hi Lizzy!

4) "agrees with the Big Tent following" - Wow, I agreed with the part in Big Tent about how people that agree with or defend OTHER PLAYERS should not be considered guilty, and I'm automatically guilty. Priceless.

Soooo in summary I think I'm guilty of teasing Liz and being a list maker. As far as crappy day one cases go, I guess you could go ahead and lynch me. I'm even getting ready to go to bed soon, so you have the perfect opportunity.

What I've been doing though is watching the interactions and making my opinions, so far (oh yeah baby another list! I'm playing with fire!!!):

1) Fener changes his vote whenever the winds change to follow someone (anyone) else.

2) Korbas is just happy to throw his vote down on anyone with a majority.

3) Karosis will continue arguing, even though he said he isn't going to, because he wants to prove something to us.

Anyway, I'm going to bed. I'll vote when I wake up tomorrow. Right now I'm leaning towards Korbas and Fener.

The 'case' he does make is little more than pressuring a low-poster to contribute. That player returns and says NOTHING of value, and suddenly this satisfies Korvalain. Again, he attempts to distract the thread with the comment on Fener, another surface observation that had already been made.

Korvalain, on 18 June 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 18 June 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Yeah, Meanas is pretty random.

remove Vote

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Here.

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

Here again.

Scum or lazy townie, you've got to do better than that. ^^

vote Ampelas

Point me towards your contribution if you may be so kind. I keep looking, but I can't seem to find it.

IT SPEAKS MORE THAN 3 WORDS! I'm satisfied, now we're tied.

remove Vote

I agree Fener is a bit overzealous in his following.

There has been plenty of other action going on, but Korvalain is focussed on himself and his own case. This suggests to me that he does not want to get involved in the main discussions, for fear of slipping and giving something away. dealing only with the case he has made and the case against him gives him better control over the situation.

Vote Korvalain.

Pretty much everyone else on the train had made generally agreeing statements.

[Anomandaris]

Or Korvalian's heart stopped because he was caught out in not contributing as well? He accuses Amp, Amp accuses him and then they both play nicely afterwards. Two killers voting for each other to distance?