[Telas]

Galain, on 10 June 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

Telas, on 10 June 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

@ Galain

I checked this with Ment ages ago - using up the BP does NOT interfere with your other actions. Therefore, if for example I had a knife and a BP, and someone attacks me, my BP would be used up but my knife action would still go through. So no, it does not technically guard you and Spite is wrong.

Your example of yourself is silly by the way. Of course you would not be able to use your knife action, but NOT because you would have lost your BP, but because at least one of us was targetting you with a guard


Also, from what I know, every item in the cache is unusable until the next night phase, EXCEPT for the gun, which can be used in the in the immediate day phase. Which is why I don't get why Emur (and now you Galain) are saying that guns had to wait a day phase and a night phase before being usable the following day phase after that.

Kind of beside the point at this stage, seeing as the flaw in Spite's logic is the order of operations - you both would still have hit me with bats, which is a kill. Then later, Spite would have been hit with a kill order, and his BP would have been used up - this should not have interfered with his *GUARD* action, as it resolves first, even if it DID result in him being guarded.


And I disagree over the case of my self-example, at least in terms of certainty - two bats is a kill, not a guard, aren't they? Then why does my double-BP getting used up (which means it HAS to be both of you) result in me being guarded AS WELL. The way it read to me when I queried PS was that my BP getting used up would prevent me from using my knife (lending credence to Spite's claim, no? EXCEPT the order of actions thing).

PS specifically told me that the gun, if picked at the end of Night Two, would not be usable straight away, and that I would have to wait until day 3 to use it.



...I'm sensing some mod problems here, honestly.

Ok, we're confusing ourselves here.

RE the gun: Yeah, that's what I meant, the gun is not usable immediately, but is usable the very first day you have it, rather than having to wait for the next night as with all the other items - BUT Emur said he could not use his gun the very first day he had it, so I'm asking why?

What do you mean by 'double-BP'? And anyway, using up your BP does NOT prevent you from using your other actions. This is what I was told. Spite and I did NOT both guard you, because Spite is Batman. But I did, and THAT guard on its own DOES guard you, so that would have prevented you from using your knife. That's what I meant.

[Telas]

Galain, on 10 June 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

Or possibly just us reading slightly different bits of info.



I also confirmed with Ment that the BP was passive and did not require activation. I've ALSO confirmed with Ment that two bats are a KILL and NOT both a guard AND a kill. I've CONFIRMED that. BUT I also confirmed that if my body armour breaks I can't use other actions. The point you've heard is that the BP is passive and therefore does not count towards your choice-of-action-limit.


Just for clarity.

Nope, I specifically asked if using up the Body Armour prevents you using other actions. I was told no, it does not.

[Galain]

Telas, on 10 June 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

Galain, on 10 June 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

Or possibly just us reading slightly different bits of info.



I also confirmed with Ment that the BP was passive and did not require activation. I've ALSO confirmed with Ment that two bats are a KILL and NOT both a guard AND a kill. I've CONFIRMED that. BUT I also confirmed that if my body armour breaks I can't use other actions. The point you've heard is that the BP is passive and therefore does not count towards your choice-of-action-limit.


Just for clarity.

Nope, I specifically asked if using up the Body Armour prevents you using other actions. I was told no, it does not.

Which leads us back around to mod confusion. Obviously we cannot quote our respective PMs on the subject on thread, so we'll have to wait for Ment to sort this out, but he definitely told me that if my BP got smashed then I couldnt' reasonably expect to be using my knives on the same night. So we're hearing different things, for sure.

Quote

Ok, we're confusing ourselves here.

RE the gun: Yeah, that's what I meant, the gun is not usable immediately, but is usable the very first day you have it, rather than having to wait for the next night as with all the other items - BUT Emur said he could not use his gun the very first day he had it, so I'm asking why?

What do you mean by 'double-BP'? And anyway, using up your BP does NOT prevent you from using your other actions. This is what I was told. Spite and I did NOT both guard you, because Spite is Batman. But I did, and THAT guard on its own DOES guard you, so that would have prevented you from using your knife. That's what I meant.

Again, I've been told different regarding the gun; you'll forgive me if I misspoke earlier when I was describing the night-two-day-three thing, I meant night one. Ment said that if I had technically picked the gun during day two (which was confusing at the time, seeing as the equipment was a hand-out during night one), that the gun would not be usable until the NEXT DAY, which again confused me as the gun usable in any phase (from the description) and therefore should have been at least usable night two - I made a comment implying I'd have liked to use it on day two if I was going to pick it, before getting told this, for context.
So, again, we have conflicting information.

And I was thinking 'double-bat' when I wrote double-BP, I guess? O.o I honestly don't know where that one came from. >.< That looks terrible. But I'm pretty tired at the moment, so who knows...

As for the rest of it- that is what theoretically DID happen, yes. But I *didn't* choose to use my knife. I asked if I could use my knife AND take a hit on my BP, and was told no. So I didn't bother submitting a knife action. And it was pretty expressly stated that this was NOT due to the guard-effect of bats, as two bats equals a kill not a guard. WEIRD.


EDIT: To remove weird duplicate quotes-of-myself in the first paragraph. O.o

This post has been edited by Galain: 10 June 2012 - 10:11 AM

[Telas]

Hmm, I guess we do require further mod clarification.

That 'double-BP' thing is gonna come back to haunt you. Karosis especially loves his 'slips'

[Galain]

Telas, on 10 June 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

Hmm, I guess we do require further mod clarification.

That 'double-BP' thing is gonna come back to haunt you. Karosis especially loves his 'slips'

Tell me about it. *sigh*
One would hope that it's fairly obvious how I made that mistake and that it honestly doesn't change anything about the situation, but I can feel that it's not going to be a positive experience for me in the future, lol.

[Emurlahn]

I got the cache day two. That gave me a list of options for me to take. Bat, Knife, Body Armour, Shield and Gun. The knife was a Night action and the Gun was an anytime action. I was so pissed off with Atrahal for not hammering Eloth when the lynch was about to time out I picked up the gun and said I was thinking about shooting Korv but i'll read up. He said I cannot use the gun until day 3 onwards. That was when we had had two failed lynch attempts on a confirmed CL. Why Eloth? I was sure he was a CL and not certain about anybody else.

Telas, on 09 June 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

This was it - why couldn't you use your gun on day 2 Emur? Or night 2? And why did you decide to shoot Eloth? You never explained that.

Emurlahn, on 09 June 2012 - 12:45 AM, said:

I'm around, saw this whilst catching up. It was Atrahal because of letting day one go without a lynch. I got my gun but couldn't use it day two, I had to wait until day three. IF Eloth had perished by then I would've vigged Atrahal. I hate it when a day goes without a lynch especially in cult games. It seems we were of the same mind back then. I'm going to have a good read through the game to catch up whilst the other half is in the bath

And then there's this post which also feels a little fishy - in the sense that Emur's almost fishing for CL names. I know I'm sounding paranoid, but if the Bat can recruit a follower (I'm not saying he can, or that it's even likely), then Emur's almost giving me that vibe.

Emurlahn, on 09 June 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

Korbas, on 08 June 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

The ability to hide. Each time we catch him, it's a COMPLETE restart the next day. We have to look at every single person again, it doesn't matter if they've been cleared or not. Now the only persons we can check off are known cult leaders, of which there are none, and Liosan. But next life for batman, even Liosan has to be put back on the list. Its the perfect defense. No need for a BP.

What did I miss? Why is Liosan PI'd? Also do we not know of another CL? I'm not going to shout it out but wasn't there enough information earlier to reason it out?

Nothing to act on now - but something else I thought I'd point out in case it's needed in the future. I would like Emur to answer the questions at the top though.

No one answered me about Liosan and why he is PI'd. Other than that I have a good indication of some players and I was wondering why Korbas was playing dumb in the above post. To throw the Bat off scent? What if Korbas is the Bat? If I had to choose a successor then I'd pick someone who can lead the thread, give good arguments, defend themselves well etc etc. Are we looking at Spite because of the double guards?

[Emurlahn]

Caught up so ignore my Spite question

[Omtose]

Emurlahn, on 10 June 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

<snip>

No one answered me about Liosan and why he is PI'd. Other than that I have a good indication of some players and I was wondering why Korbas was playing dumb in the above post. To throw the Bat off scent? What if Korbas is the Bat? If I had to choose a successor then I'd pick someone who can lead the thread, give good arguments, defend themselves well etc etc. Are we looking at Spite because of the double guards?

He shot Thyr after Batman was recruited.

[Anomandaris]

Checking in again. Does the modkill for not posting timer run during weekend freeze?

[Korbas]

I was playing dumb? Where?

[Omtose]

Korbas, on 10 June 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

I was playing dumb? Where?

Why? When?

[Omtose]

Anomandaris, on 10 June 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

Checking in again. Does the modkill for not posting timer run during weekend freeze?

No.

[Galain]

Indeed, we PI'd Lio because he shot Thyr - Batman doesn't use guns, so therefore Lio was definitely not Batman. But that doesn't stand between Batman Big Ben jumps, for obvious reasons.



Alright, I *was* going to put Spite on L-1 before going to bed, but as the weekend freeze is both in effect and we have plenty of time, I would rather we wait to see if any mod clarification is coming through on the issues raised by Telas and myself first. I think we can all agree there is no rush and we'd rather be MORE confident of a Batman lynch than not, correct? At this stage my internal logic says that we're pretty damn certain, but the conflicting information provided makes me want to check first, lynch later. But by all reasoning I *should* have lost my BP if Spite did what he was supposed to do (and Telas has been theoretically cleared by a CL) based on the action resolution order unless weird exceptions/interpretations/other factors came into play on the modding side because - for fucks sake - if another player intervened they should have well come forward by now. So it's just pending mod clarification for near-certainty of who the Batman is, then we can lynch happy.


And start over again tomorrow. >.<

[Anomandaris]

Omtose, on 10 June 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on 10 June 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

Checking in again. Does the modkill for not posting timer run during weekend freeze?

No.

Many thanks

[D'riss]

Back and better than ever.

I'll be around if we want to lynch Spite.

[Telas]

D, on 10 June 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Back and better than ever.

I'll be around if we want to lynch Spite.

Nah, let's give him more time to decide on the most suitable candidate for a successor


Also, Karosis, I've been reading over your posts - trying too hard, dude. It's quite funny to see how much you try and read the game and pick up on different things to everyone else. I mean, it's good that you're contributing different things to others...but try and get one right next time

[Korbas]

So much useful information we've gained, by not lynching.

Note sarcasm.

[D'riss]

What information could we have gained by lynching before now that we couldn't gain if we lynch after the clock restarts?

[Korbas]

Spite's CF? We could use the time to start the new hunt, or continue the old

[D'riss]

Spite's CF would be gained anyways, but I see your point.

Is Spite at L-2?