[Telas]

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Telas, on 06 June 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

All I did was badger Eloth for information, then everyone got all pissy because they said we shouldn't out all the CLs, yet. All I did was ask questions. If any information would have been given in answer, that would be on them. Horrible argument. No one has to answer me just because I asked Eloth to turn in the identity of the other CLs.

The very fact that you asked suggests one of two things:

1) You're a silly excited townie not thinking about the repurcussions.

Or

2) You're not town at all.

About the repurcussions of what? If Eloth decides to answer me? If he even decides to tell us the TRUTH? If we even believe him if he tells us the truth? Hardly.

You're either very dense or you're scrambling. 3 CLs known on thread is 3 CLs known to Batman. He (and his successors if need be) can pick them off at leisure, no work required. Why would you do Batman's finding work for him?

[Osseric]

Telas, on 06 June 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Telas, on 06 June 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

All I did was badger Eloth for information, then everyone got all pissy because they said we shouldn't out all the CLs, yet. All I did was ask questions. If any information would have been given in answer, that would be on them. Horrible argument. No one has to answer me just because I asked Eloth to turn in the identity of the other CLs.

The very fact that you asked suggests one of two things:

1) You're a silly excited townie not thinking about the repurcussions.

Or

2) You're not town at all.

About the repurcussions of what? If Eloth decides to answer me? If he even decides to tell us the TRUTH? If we even believe him if he tells us the truth? Hardly.

You're either very dense or you're scrambling. 3 CLs known on thread is 3 CLs known to Batman. He (and his successors if need be) can pick them off at leisure, no work required. Why would you do Batman's finding work for him?

You assume that by doing Batman's finding work that I can force Eloth to tell us whatever I want. Why do you think Eloth would reveal someting ONLY if he is asked? You are being dense, now. Eloth told us what he was going to tell us. My questions served a purpose.

[Telas]

Yes, Eloth could lie, but in all honestly lying is better if it means that Batman then goes after the wrong target. Imagine if we lynch Eloth and Ampelas and they both turn out to be CLs. And Eloth also revealed to us a third CL. One who is subsequently killed by Batman. So in the space of two-three days we're down to ONE CL with Batman STILL at 4 lives. Those are not good odds for a town win.

[Thyrllan]

Telas, on 06 June 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Telas, on 06 June 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

All I did was badger Eloth for information, then everyone got all pissy because they said we shouldn't out all the CLs, yet. All I did was ask questions. If any information would have been given in answer, that would be on them. Horrible argument. No one has to answer me just because I asked Eloth to turn in the identity of the other CLs.

The very fact that you asked suggests one of two things:

1) You're a silly excited townie not thinking about the repurcussions.

Or

2) You're not town at all.

About the repurcussions of what? If Eloth decides to answer me? If he even decides to tell us the TRUTH? If we even believe him if he tells us the truth? Hardly.

You're either very dense or you're scrambling. 3 CLs known on thread is 3 CLs known to Batman. He (and his successors if need be) can pick them off at leisure, no work required. Why would you do Batman's finding work for him?

Or both is an option. The Batman would want that information, after all.

[Osseric]

Telas, on 06 June 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

Yes, Eloth could lie, but in all honestly lying is better if it means that Batman then goes after the wrong target. Imagine if we lynch Eloth and Ampelas and they both turn out to be CLs. And Eloth also revealed to us a third CL. One who is subsequently killed by Batman. So in the space of two-three days we're down to ONE CL with Batman STILL at 4 lives. Those are not good odds for a town win.

Eloth claimed himself as Two-Face. That has nothing to do with me. He then said that Amp was The Joker. Also nothing to do with me. If he was going to reveal a 3rd he either will or won't. It would have nothing to do with being asked. Come on, dude. Think straight.

[Telas]

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

Telas, on 06 June 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Telas, on 06 June 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

All I did was badger Eloth for information, then everyone got all pissy because they said we shouldn't out all the CLs, yet. All I did was ask questions. If any information would have been given in answer, that would be on them. Horrible argument. No one has to answer me just because I asked Eloth to turn in the identity of the other CLs.

The very fact that you asked suggests one of two things:

1) You're a silly excited townie not thinking about the repurcussions.

Or

2) You're not town at all.

About the repurcussions of what? If Eloth decides to answer me? If he even decides to tell us the TRUTH? If we even believe him if he tells us the truth? Hardly.

You're either very dense or you're scrambling. 3 CLs known on thread is 3 CLs known to Batman. He (and his successors if need be) can pick them off at leisure, no work required. Why would you do Batman's finding work for him?

You assume that by doing Batman's finding work that I can force Eloth to tell us whatever I want. Why do you think Eloth would reveal someting ONLY if he is asked? You are being dense, now. Eloth told us what he was going to tell us. My questions served a purpose.

Wait wait - so your defense is now that your questions were pointless?! And you say I'm being dumb? Here's what you've just suggested:

1) You asked the questions in full expectation that Eloth would lie to you if he answered - so you wanted more WIFOM on thread. I see.

OR

2) You didn't expect Eloth to answer you at all, so you were asking questions only to look like you were doing something. I see.

[Telas]

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

Telas, on 06 June 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

Yes, Eloth could lie, but in all honestly lying is better if it means that Batman then goes after the wrong target. Imagine if we lynch Eloth and Ampelas and they both turn out to be CLs. And Eloth also revealed to us a third CL. One who is subsequently killed by Batman. So in the space of two-three days we're down to ONE CL with Batman STILL at 4 lives. Those are not good odds for a town win.

Eloth claimed himself as Two-Face. That has nothing to do with me. He then said that Amp was The Joker. Also nothing to do with me. If he was going to reveal a 3rd he either will or won't. It would have nothing to do with being asked. Come on, dude. Think straight.

I hope everyone else can see this for the faulty defense that it is.

[Osseric]

Telas, on 06 June 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

Telas, on 06 June 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Telas, on 06 June 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

All I did was badger Eloth for information, then everyone got all pissy because they said we shouldn't out all the CLs, yet. All I did was ask questions. If any information would have been given in answer, that would be on them. Horrible argument. No one has to answer me just because I asked Eloth to turn in the identity of the other CLs.

The very fact that you asked suggests one of two things:

1) You're a silly excited townie not thinking about the repurcussions.

Or

2) You're not town at all.

About the repurcussions of what? If Eloth decides to answer me? If he even decides to tell us the TRUTH? If we even believe him if he tells us the truth? Hardly.

You're either very dense or you're scrambling. 3 CLs known on thread is 3 CLs known to Batman. He (and his successors if need be) can pick them off at leisure, no work required. Why would you do Batman's finding work for him?

You assume that by doing Batman's finding work that I can force Eloth to tell us whatever I want. Why do you think Eloth would reveal someting ONLY if he is asked? You are being dense, now. Eloth told us what he was going to tell us. My questions served a purpose.

Wait wait - so your defense is now that your questions were pointless?! And you say I'm being dumb? Here's what you've just suggested:

1) You asked the questions in full expectation that Eloth would lie to you if he answered - so you wanted more WIFOM on thread. I see.

OR

2) You didn't expect Eloth to answer you at all, so you were asking questions only to look like you were doing something. I see.

He revealed himself and Ampelas. The only reason I asked for the third was because he said he targetted Karosis. He didn't reveal anything about who else targetted Karosis. So this ALL boils down to me asking Eloth who the 3rd CL was. And we have to assume that was information that would only be given if asked nicely? And then you say I asked for no reason, or to have something to do. Those are also sins in your mind? There has to be more to all this.

[Osseric]

Telas, on 06 June 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

Telas, on 06 June 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

Yes, Eloth could lie, but in all honestly lying is better if it means that Batman then goes after the wrong target. Imagine if we lynch Eloth and Ampelas and they both turn out to be CLs. And Eloth also revealed to us a third CL. One who is subsequently killed by Batman. So in the space of two-three days we're down to ONE CL with Batman STILL at 4 lives. Those are not good odds for a town win.

Eloth claimed himself as Two-Face. That has nothing to do with me. He then said that Amp was The Joker. Also nothing to do with me. If he was going to reveal a 3rd he either will or won't. It would have nothing to do with being asked. Come on, dude. Think straight.

I hope everyone else can see this for the faulty defense that it is.

And I hope everyone can see this for what it is. Me being targetted for asking Eloth who the 3rd CL was. I'd still like an answer.

Eloth will please, pretty please, with a cherry on top tell us who you targetted Karosis with?

[Telas]

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

He revealed himself and Ampelas. The only reason I asked for the third was because he said he targetted Karosis. He didn't reveal anything about who else targetted Karosis. So this ALL boils down to me asking Eloth who the 3rd CL was. And we have to assume that was information that would only be given if asked nicely? And then you say I asked for no reason, or to have something to do. Those are also sins in your mind? There has to be more to all this.

No mate, the point is that town wouldn't want that information on thread for all to see at all. Whether you think Eloth would lie, tell the truth, or not say anything at all, it doesn't matter because you shouldn't be asking for it in the first place. It both creates more paranoid speculation (did he lie?! did he tell the truth?!) and potentially gives Batman an easy ride.

And yes, asking pointless questions is a sin in mafia

[Eloth]

Telas, on 06 June 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

@ Eloth

A non-reveal others question: Do you have any killing powers available to you? I.e. do you have to manipulate town into lynching the right choice (i.e. Batman) or can you take him out yourself?

I can vig a limited number of times. However, I know my own protective measures and they're quite rough to deal with. In all honesty, I doubt town can kill me without a very concerted effortn or other CLs lending a hand. The same is probably true for Amp - otherwise, why would he risk being counter-outed by revealing me?
I expect Batman to be able to, though - if he has to weigh up against 4 of us, then he's a walking arsenal.
I also expect BM to be better protected than I am, especially against kills. You're going to need 3-5 of those is my expectation, spread over several adjacent phases.

[Korvalain]

Yeap. Osseric is scrambling. His posts are getting increasingly more panicked, and he is starting to contradict himself.

If what Eloth had to say "had nothing to do with being asked", why were you asking? If you expected him to lie, why were you asking?

At this stage in the game, it may make sense to lynch one Cult Leader, especially if we aren't 100% sure about who Batman is. If we can reduce the drain on town, that can only be a good thing. HOWEVER, there is no need to know who all the CL's are at this point, because Batman can read the thread just as well as the rest of us, and he will use that info to win. The only person who needs that info right now is Batman.

[Telas]

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

And I hope everyone can see this for what it is. Me being targetted for asking Eloth who the 3rd CL was. I'd still like an answer.

Eloth will please, pretty please, with a cherry on top tell us who you targetted Karosis with?

I'm really beginning to wonder if you either don't understand the VCs at all, or there's something darker afoot here. Town does not want CLs to win, true, but if they die too soon it's not town who wins, it's Batman. We have to be more strategic then this.

As it is, if we get rid of Eloth and Ampelas at this stage, and they're both CLs, I'd be ecstatic with that as it gives town a major advantage with only two recruiters left. However, I certainly wouldn't want those two recruiters to be the next ones to go.

[Eloth]

 Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

 Telas, on 06 June 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

 Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

 Telas, on 06 June 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

Yes, Eloth could lie, but in all honestly lying is better if it means that Batman then goes after the wrong target. Imagine if we lynch Eloth and Ampelas and they both turn out to be CLs. And Eloth also revealed to us a third CL. One who is subsequently killed by Batman. So in the space of two-three days we're down to ONE CL with Batman STILL at 4 lives. Those are not good odds for a town win.

Eloth claimed himself as Two-Face. That has nothing to do with me. He then said that Amp was The Joker. Also nothing to do with me. If he was going to reveal a 3rd he either will or won't. It would have nothing to do with being asked. Come on, dude. Think straight.

I hope everyone else can see this for the faulty defense that it is.

And I hope everyone can see this for what it is. Me being targetted for asking Eloth who the 3rd CL was. I'd still like an answer.

Eloth will please, pretty please, with a cherry on top tell us who you targetted Karosis with?

Is it the kind of cherry that goes *pop*?

The answer is 'no', though.

[Eloth]

 Korvalain, on 06 June 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Yeap. Osseric is scrambling. His posts are getting increasingly more panicked, and he is starting to contradict himself.

If what Eloth had to say "had nothing to do with being asked", why were you asking? If you expected him to lie, why were you asking?

At this stage in the game, it may make sense to lynch one Cult Leader, especially if we aren't 100% sure about who Batman is. If we can reduce the drain on town, that can only be a good thing. HOWEVER, there is no need to know who all the CL's are at this point, because Batman can read the thread just as well as the rest of us, and he will use that info to win. The only person who needs that info right now is Batman.

Exactly. Which is why osseric is Batman.

[Osseric]

 Korvalain, on 06 June 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Yeap. Osseric is scrambling. His posts are getting increasingly more panicked, and he is starting to contradict himself.

If what Eloth had to say "had nothing to do with being asked", why were you asking? If you expected him to lie, why were you asking?

At this stage in the game, it may make sense to lynch one Cult Leader, especially if we aren't 100% sure about who Batman is. If we can reduce the drain on town, that can only be a good thing. HOWEVER, there is no need to know who all the CL's are at this point, because Batman can read the thread just as well as the rest of us, and he will use that info to win. The only person who needs that info right now is Batman.

I've yet to contradict myself. Find it. You guys sure are getting highly upset about me asking Eloth questions. As for starting to panick? Panick over what? Over asking Eloth who the 3rd CL was?

ELOTH, WILL YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHO THE 3RD CL IS? Just do it, man. Let it out. I know you want to. It has to be such a heavy burden to carry. I promise you will feel better.

[Eloth]

 Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

 Korvalain, on 06 June 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Yeap. Osseric is scrambling. His posts are getting increasingly more panicked, and he is starting to contradict himself.

If what Eloth had to say "had nothing to do with being asked", why were you asking? If you expected him to lie, why were you asking?

At this stage in the game, it may make sense to lynch one Cult Leader, especially if we aren't 100% sure about who Batman is. If we can reduce the drain on town, that can only be a good thing. HOWEVER, there is no need to know who all the CL's are at this point, because Batman can read the thread just as well as the rest of us, and he will use that info to win. The only person who needs that info right now is Batman.

I've yet to contradict myself. Find it. You guys sure are getting highly upset about me asking Eloth questions. As for starting to panick? Panick over what? Over asking Eloth who the 3rd CL was?

ELOTH, WILL YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHO THE 3RD CL IS? Just do it, man. Let it out. I know you want to. It has to be such a heavy burden to carry. I promise you will feel better.

So you're now giving up every single pretense of being town, not even arguiing anymore why town needs to know this?
You disappoint me, Bruce, you really do.

[Thyrllan]

Scramble scramble scramble....

Let's see if this provokes more scrambling:

Vote Osseric

[Thyrllan]

 Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

 Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

 Korvalain, on 06 June 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Yeap. Osseric is scrambling. His posts are getting increasingly more panicked, and he is starting to contradict himself.

If what Eloth had to say "had nothing to do with being asked", why were you asking? If you expected him to lie, why were you asking?

At this stage in the game, it may make sense to lynch one Cult Leader, especially if we aren't 100% sure about who Batman is. If we can reduce the drain on town, that can only be a good thing. HOWEVER, there is no need to know who all the CL's are at this point, because Batman can read the thread just as well as the rest of us, and he will use that info to win. The only person who needs that info right now is Batman.

I've yet to contradict myself. Find it. You guys sure are getting highly upset about me asking Eloth questions. As for starting to panick? Panick over what? Over asking Eloth who the 3rd CL was?

ELOTH, WILL YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHO THE 3RD CL IS? Just do it, man. Let it out. I know you want to. It has to be such a heavy burden to carry. I promise you will feel better.

So you're now giving up every single pretense of being town, not even arguiing anymore why town needs to know this?
You disappoint me, Bruce, you really do.

Oh wow...

[Korvalain]

I'm starting to wonder if Osseric WANTS to get lynched.