[Rashan]

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

Rashan, on 05 June 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

Korbas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

You voted for D'riss... when Eloth was the only option to actually get a lynch. Fucko.

I'm not going to vote for someone just because everyone else is doing so. That way lies chaos and popularity contests.

You have to agree with Korbas though, a lynch is better than no lynch, isn't it?

A lynch with no information is in no way better than no lynch. We were far more likely to hit one of our own than one of 5 targets, and none of the cases built could be described as strong by any means. So I think this is actually a good result for us.

It could be argued that all lynches provide at least some information. If a lynch goes through, you have the information on those who voted for the person, the one who hammered, and who tried to direct the lynch in the first place. The case may not have been rock solid, but there was enough there, as far as I'm concerned, to give some information to the rest of town. I strongly disagree with your 'no lynch is better' idea.

[Anthras]

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

Anthras, on 05 June 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

I feel that Emur and Amp are basically begging the cults to come and recruit them because they are rolled. I can't see enough pressure on either one of them for their reveals.

Certainly not what I'm going for. I don't think it would work / will happen anyawys - cult leaders aren't going to go for someone so obvious because they first of all risk hitting the same person that another leader tried to recruit, and second of all risk that they get the obvious townie but that townie is taken by another leader tomorrow and outs the first leader.

Then really why else would you with a minor amount of votes feel the need to basically reveal as a town role. You know that those of us who remain as town can not trust any information that you happen to give out in the days to come. If Batman doesn't take you out that is. Plus you will have to reveal all information on the thread for us to not lynch you as being a member of a cult.

[Ampelas]

Omtose, on 05 June 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

So, 9 anonymous users reading the thread when the Joker messages comes, and it's a message that you had to be reading the thread to get right.

IMO, then, Joker is one of the people who was on just now:

rashan
fener
telas
ampelas
eloth
korbas
atrahal
omtose

worth noting, too, that Omtose didn't post since last page -> taking the time to write a PM instead?

This may be an alien concept for you.... but I have a JOB. Now that we have 4 hours of night and another day there's not as much of a rush is there?

I'm referring to the time before night

[Anthras]

Rashan, on 05 June 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

Rashan, on 05 June 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

Korbas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

You voted for D'riss... when Eloth was the only option to actually get a lynch. Fucko.

I'm not going to vote for someone just because everyone else is doing so. That way lies chaos and popularity contests.

You have to agree with Korbas though, a lynch is better than no lynch, isn't it?

A lynch with no information is in no way better than no lynch. We were far more likely to hit one of our own than one of 5 targets, and none of the cases built could be described as strong by any means. So I think this is actually a good result for us.

It could be argued that all lynches provide at least some information. If a lynch goes through, you have the information on those who voted for the person, the one who hammered, and who tried to direct the lynch in the first place. The case may not have been rock solid, but there was enough there, as far as I'm concerned, to give some information to the rest of town. I strongly disagree with your 'no lynch is better' idea.

I concur with this. The information that comes from a lynch is always more and better information then the information that we have from a no lynch.

[Ampelas]

Anthras, on 05 June 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

Anthras, on 05 June 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

I feel that Emur and Amp are basically begging the cults to come and recruit them because they are rolled. I can't see enough pressure on either one of them for their reveals.

Certainly not what I'm going for. I don't think it would work / will happen anyawys - cult leaders aren't going to go for someone so obvious because they first of all risk hitting the same person that another leader tried to recruit, and second of all risk that they get the obvious townie but that townie is taken by another leader tomorrow and outs the first leader.

Then really why else would you with a minor amount of votes feel the need to basically reveal as a town role. You know that those of us who remain as town can not trust any information that you happen to give out in the days to come. If Batman doesn't take you out that is. Plus you will have to reveal all information on the thread for us to not lynch you as being a member of a cult.

Because telas had already straight up said it on thread (but in his idiocy was thinking of imaginary independent roles because he's an idiot). CLs/BM aren't stupid, they're reading the thread closely and would have caught it, but might have thought there was a chance they were the only ones to catch it. I might as well explode on the issue and put it so out there with so much WIFOM that they now won't dare try and recruit me for fear of stepping on each others' toes. I don't have a good counter for BM, but if I'm this out there I can hope for a heal or that the WIFOM or his VC will make him look elsewhere.

This way I am likely to stay town for a while and can divulge my find results openly, which will benefit town more than me failing at trying to hide.

[Korbas]

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

Korbas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

You voted for D'riss... when Eloth was the only option to actually get a lynch. Fucko.

I'm not going to vote for someone just because everyone else is doing so. That way lies chaos and popularity contests.

THATS NOT THE POINT.

WE.LYNCH.EVERY.DAY.

It sucks that you didn't agree with the case, but a no-lynch is FAR more harmful to town than a lynch of someone with a case you don't particularly agree on. If you can't get that through your head, I will find a vig, and I will murder you with it. EVERY FUCKING GAME YOU PLAY. I WILL FIND YOU, AND VIG YOUR FACE.

[Korbas]

Yeah, xpost, what the other people said. Calmer is bette,r they say.

[Rashan]

Korbas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

EVERY FUCKING GAME YOU PLAY. I WILL FIND YOU, AND VIG YOUR FACE.

This MUSTS become your sig post game!

[Omtose]

Korbas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

Korbas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

You voted for D'riss... when Eloth was the only option to actually get a lynch. Fucko.

I'm not going to vote for someone just because everyone else is doing so. That way lies chaos and popularity contests.

THATS NOT THE POINT.

WE.LYNCH.EVERY.DAY.

It sucks that you didn't agree with the case, but a no-lynch is FAR more harmful to town than a lynch of someone with a case you don't particularly agree on. If you can't get that through your head, I will find a vig, and I will murder you with it. EVERY FUCKING GAME YOU PLAY. I WILL FIND YOU, AND VIG YOUR FACE.

You two make such a beautiful couple.

[Eloth]

Now that my adrenaline rush has somewhat subsided, here's my Telas = The Joker case.
It's based on language, mostly. If we examine the past hour or so, Telas has been fairly active. And of all online, he was the most relaxed and least snarky. As if nothing was at stake here for him and his faction, whereas every single other person was feeling tension. The case itself isn't very strong, merely based on the love for unnecessary and playful adjectives both Telas and the Joker express in their recent (or most recent) posts:

Telas, on 05 June 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Telas, on 05 June 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Ampelas - because he clearly DOES have a name and ergo, a role. So he could well be a CL or Batman.

Arguing that my comment on the possibility of RI names in CFs means that I "clearly DO" have one, is like saying that since you commented on the possibility of independent roles existing means that "clearly YOU ARE" one... which if true means we should lynch you but in reality is just absurd reasoning.

And now I'm done arguing this silly line of logic. Time to get back on track for a real lynch.

You're absolutely right, let's not be silly. So let's take a look at what you said again shall we?

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

I dunno about that. There are easily enough batman villains for all 21 non-BM-players to be one, even if RI.

Your first response was NOT to say that it could be that RIs get a name after their death, it was to say that everyone could have a designated name ALREADY. Only after I called you on this did you post the rather lame defense - "well, we could all get names after our deaths". This to me suggests you have a name, and so assumed everyone did.

However, it also suggests to me that you have a name that is NOT in the OP, which thus would mean you are not the Bat or a CL. Or, on the other hand, you are, but did a really really silly thing, rather than just a silly thing

Telas, on 05 June 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

Telas, on 05 June 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Telas, on 05 June 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Ampelas - because he clearly DOES have a name and ergo, a role. So he could well be a CL or Batman.

Arguing that my comment on the possibility of RI names in CFs means that I "clearly DO" have one, is like saying that since you commented on the possibility of independent roles existing means that "clearly YOU ARE" one... which if true means we should lynch you but in reality is just absurd reasoning.

And now I'm done arguing this silly line of logic. Time to get back on track for a real lynch.

You're absolutely right, let's not be silly. So let's take a look at what you said again shall we?

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

I dunno about that. There are easily enough batman villains for all 21 non-BM-players to be one, even if RI.

Your first response was NOT to say that it could be that RIs get a name after their death, it was to say that everyone could have a designated name ALREADY. Only after I called you on this did you post the rather lame defense - "well, we could all get names after our deaths". This to me suggests you have a name, and so assumed everyone did.

However, it also suggests to me that you have a name that is NOT in the OP, which thus would mean you are not the Bat or a CL. Or, on the other hand, you are, but did a really really silly thing, rather than just a silly thing

FINE KEEP PUSHING JUST FUCKING TELL EVERYONE THAT I'M ROLED TOWN YOU DIPSHIT COULD YOU NOT UNDERSTAND MY HINTS TO SHUT THE FUCK UP???!!!

You're the one who slipped up, and now you're blaming me? Pffft Should have been more careful. Anyways, I even removed my vote from you and voted elsewhere, so once again you're digging your own hole without my help. There was no need for you to post this.

Telas, on 05 June 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Sematnics. Whether a serial killer is an "independent" or a "faction leader of his own 1-man faction" doesn't really change anything. But that you actually believe such things exist with no indication of it from the OP... that's just sad... how do you think town will ever win if we use fearmongering, assume-anything-is-possible-despite-the-OP logic like that?

Semantics? Are you joking? An independent is much more likely to be in here than another faction leader (which I agree is extremely unlikely). We've already found out from Shelly's death and your silliness that there are roled innos, which the OP did NOT make us aware of.

Now also see this please:

Path-Shaper, on 04 June 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

There have been 4 confirmed major villains in Arkham City: The Joker, Two-Face, the Penguin and Poison Ivy.

I've underlined, bolded, and italicised the key word for you there

emphasis mine. We're in the last few minutes of the day, and Telas is just fooling around - nothing at stake at all.

Telas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

Remove Vote

Vote Eloth

Telas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

Just because

Very, very relaxed, in the final minute. He doesn't give a toss.

Telas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Since apparently PINNING THE THREAD TO THE FUCKING MAFIA FORUM isn't enough for Telas, here's a goddamn link:http://forum.malazan...showtopic=20858

You're an idiot, and don't comprehend anything in your blind anger at yourself for being so silly

More goading and teasing.

Path-Shaper, on 05 June 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

We got an after lynch broadcast message from the Joker:

Quote

Wahahahahahahahahaha~ More recruits for me!

Two-face, I like your idea! You can have Emur and SL's swampy, immortal corpse. I will take Korbas, Karosis and that feisty Eloth who so lovingly evaded the lynch.






And Osseric is batman, you idiots!

-Liz

Telas' posts are characterised by plenty of smilies, a distinct lack of feeling pressure, and plenty of adjectives when talking to someone, which is invariably in a teasing manner, even against an ever more angry Ampelas. Then a last minute pen ultimate vote, just because he can, not because it is good for town or the game. Then a gloating message with adjectives that, especially swampy, feisty and lovingly, can be lined up with really silly.
Out of the people who posted during the past hour, there is the most consistency between his posts and that one message of The Joker. Neither Anthras nor Atrahal have adopted such a style throughout day 1.

[Anthras]

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

Anthras, on 05 June 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

Anthras, on 05 June 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

I feel that Emur and Amp are basically begging the cults to come and recruit them because they are rolled. I can't see enough pressure on either one of them for their reveals.

Certainly not what I'm going for. I don't think it would work / will happen anyawys - cult leaders aren't going to go for someone so obvious because they first of all risk hitting the same person that another leader tried to recruit, and second of all risk that they get the obvious townie but that townie is taken by another leader tomorrow and outs the first leader.

Then really why else would you with a minor amount of votes feel the need to basically reveal as a town role. You know that those of us who remain as town can not trust any information that you happen to give out in the days to come. If Batman doesn't take you out that is. Plus you will have to reveal all information on the thread for us to not lynch you as being a member of a cult.

Because telas had already straight up said it on thread (but in his idiocy was thinking of imaginary independent roles because he's an idiot). CLs/BM aren't stupid, they're reading the thread closely and would have caught it, but might have thought there was a chance they were the only ones to catch it. I might as well explode on the issue and put it so out there with so much WIFOM that they now won't dare try and recruit me for fear of stepping on each others' toes. I don't have a good counter for BM, but if I'm this out there I can hope for a heal or that the WIFOM or his VC will make him look elsewhere.

This way I am likely to stay town for a while and can divulge my find results openly, which will benefit town more than me failing at trying to hide.

So basically you felt that it was a good idea to follow a idiot. Well I guess that explains that.

[Karosis]

OK, seriously, no lynch? Did we not just have a big long discussion about how there are various things we need to improve upon as a community, and was this not something that came up? The only way town can get solid information is by lynching. The only way town can win is lynching. It is our primary weapon in pretty much every game. If there is a CF, you NEED to lynch. Certainty is a precious, precious resource in this game and by not lynching we just let some slip through our fingers. And it's especially bad because we are on a tight timescale here. Up to 4 town get converted every night! We do not have much time before the cults get too big, so we MUST make that time count to at least get somewhere. As town, you make progress by gaining certainty through the elimination of suspects. There is no other way. No-one is going to shine a spotlight on Batman and serve him up gift wrapped with an unassailable case, you have to lynch a few people and see what happens! You miss 100% of the shots you don't take, so said Michael Jordan. Well that's especially true here.

I'm very disappointed, I thought this was going to be the game where people stepped up and actually played like they knew what they were doing. 

[Ampelas]

@Eloth: that first "silly" you highlighted is me...

[Ampelas]

Karosis, on 05 June 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

OK, seriously, no lynch? Did we not just have a big long discussion about how there are various things we need to improve upon as a community, and was this not something that came up? The only way town can get solid information is by lynching. The only way town can win is lynching. It is our primary weapon in pretty much every game. If there is a CF, you NEED to lynch. Certainty is a precious, precious resource in this game and by not lynching we just let some slip through our fingers. And it's especially bad because we are on a tight timescale here. Up to 4 town get converted every night! We do not have much time before the cults get too big, so we MUST make that time count to at least get somewhere. As town, you make progress by gaining certainty through the elimination of suspects. There is no other way. No-one is going to shine a spotlight on Batman and serve him up gift wrapped with an unassailable case, you have to lynch a few people and see what happens! You miss 100% of the shots you don't take, so said Michael Jordan. Well that's especially true here.

I'm very disappointed, I thought this was going to be the game where people stepped up and actually played like they knew what they were doing.

With that kind of attitude, you couldn't show up 20 minutes earlier?

[Atrahal]

Korbas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

Korbas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

You voted for D'riss... when Eloth was the only option to actually get a lynch. Fucko.

I'm not going to vote for someone just because everyone else is doing so. That way lies chaos and popularity contests.

THATS NOT THE POINT.

WE.LYNCH.EVERY.DAY.

It sucks that you didn't agree with the case, but a no-lynch is FAR more harmful to town than a lynch of someone with a case you don't particularly agree on. If you can't get that through your head, I will find a vig, and I will murder you with it. EVERY FUCKING GAME YOU PLAY. I WILL FIND YOU, AND VIG YOUR FACE.

Well, that may be your opinion. I happen to disagree. Is information worth losing a faction member? Not even slightly, IMO. At this early stage, the info we get from lynching a fellow townie is of negligible use compared to the value of retaining numbers, especially in a game where we've all agreed retention is going to be crucial in achieving victory. The calculus of whether to go in with a mass move to lynch will change as we lose numbers to the cults, but for now, I am entirely happy with not having been the single vote that lost us a townie.

[Eloth]

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

@Eloth: that first "silly" you highlighted is me...

My bad, they replied using the same word, though.

[Eloth]

Karosis, on 05 June 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

OK, seriously, no lynch? Did we not just have a big long discussion about how there are various things we need to improve upon as a community, and was this not something that came up? The only way town can get solid information is by lynching. The only way town can win is lynching. It is our primary weapon in pretty much every game. If there is a CF, you NEED to lynch. Certainty is a precious, precious resource in this game and by not lynching we just let some slip through our fingers. And it's especially bad because we are on a tight timescale here. Up to 4 town get converted every night! We do not have much time before the cults get too big, so we MUST make that time count to at least get somewhere. As town, you make progress by gaining certainty through the elimination of suspects. There is no other way. No-one is going to shine a spotlight on Batman and serve him up gift wrapped with an unassailable case, you have to lynch a few people and see what happens! You miss 100% of the shots you don't take, so said Michael Jordan. Well that's especially true here.

I'm very disappointed, I thought this was going to be the game where people stepped up and actually played like they knew what they were doing.

Except that if lynching is set in stone, you allow the entire second half of the train a freeby because they can call on the necessity of a lynch to just pile on a vote without any motivation, as well as spelling doom over whoever the unlucky lynchee is, no matter how bad the accusation against them. On day 1, this is carte blanche for a bogus lynch and an uninformative train, and thus, a repeat of day 1 on day 2. This has been a good day 1 for perhaps any other game: lots of tension, argument, arguing and people taking stances. And while BCS would see me both dead and being CL or BM, since I'm none of those 3, we're a townie ahead. Which makes today's result better than WCS. In my book, at the very least - which means I did my job as townie under fire well: preventing the lynch of an inno.

[Korbas]

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

Well, that may be your opinion. I happen to disagree. Is information worth losing a faction member? Not even slightly, IMO. At this early stage, the info we get from lynching a fellow townie is of negligible use compared to the value of retaining numbers, especially in a game where we've all agreed retention is going to be crucial in achieving victory. The calculus of whether to go in with a mass move to lynch will change as we lose numbers to the cults, but for now, I am entirely happy with not having been the single vote that lost us a townie.

This is not opinion. This is fact.

The information of lynch train positioning, posts during the discussion, and CF, is ALWAYS worth losing a member of town. And there's no guarantee he would CF town. The only time it's beneficial to not lynch is endgame in certain positions where it gives town an extra day to find the last killer (because if they lynched wrong it would be gameover, but a no lynch gives an extra day).

This isn't something I -think- this is one of the unwritten rules of mafia.

[Fener]

Omtose, on 05 June 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

Korbas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

Korbas, on 05 June 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

You voted for D'riss... when Eloth was the only option to actually get a lynch. Fucko.

I'm not going to vote for someone just because everyone else is doing so. That way lies chaos and popularity contests.

THATS NOT THE POINT.

WE.LYNCH.EVERY.DAY.

It sucks that you didn't agree with the case, but a no-lynch is FAR more harmful to town than a lynch of someone with a case you don't particularly agree on. If you can't get that through your head, I will find a vig, and I will murder you with it. EVERY FUCKING GAME YOU PLAY. I WILL FIND YOU, AND VIG YOUR FACE.

You two make such a beautiful couple.

Atrahal, what the fuck, did you seriously rep this post? I think this is a modkillable offense, unfortunately.

[Telas]

@ Eloth:

In order to not clog up the page, I won't quote your post, but I'll reply in brief.

Your case seems to be built on two things. A link you think is there between the language I use and the message in the Joker's, and my not seeming to 'care' or feel pressure.

Ok, with the first, I can't really say anything. You either think it's there or you don't. I can only tell you you're barking up the wrong tree. However, I agree with Ampelas' earlier list that the Joker is somewhere in those 8/9 names he listed.

The second point: I've acted like there's no pressure because, before your case, there was absolutely zero pressure on me, so why shouldn't I have done so? As for not caring, I kind of feel a little insulted by that. If I didn't care, I would have let town argue themselves to a standstill without my help But as it is, I put the effort in of taking a look at a few people.

My vote at the end was only there for a laugh, true. Because I didn't think that you should be lynched, and I very much doubted a final vote would pop on in the ten seconds left.

As I had stated earlier, we already had one town death with Shelly, and I felt your lynch would lead to another town death.