[Emurlahn]

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

Hmm, I read it that BM nominates a successor, who's only informed of their change in role if BM kicks the bucket.

Well either way it won't be the same player playing BM the second time round. This makes the game a lot harder for us. We have to kill BM 4 times. 4 different alts and people. We then have to kill 4 recruiters and hopefully not be recruited ourselves if we stand any chance of winning. I hope those extra roles Ment said maybe in play are in our favour. I'm going to assume they are and they give us a better chance.

@Telas

Above my response to Ano's post was that in every scenario he gave we'd have to lynch Osseric. He didn't give another side to the argument. I wasn't agreeing with him there I was just pointing it out.

[Galain]

Eloth, on 05 June 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

Omtose, on 05 June 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

Galain, on 05 June 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

Righteo then. Glad that's sorted.


Though the fact that you're discussing it means he's town. XD

Yep.
I thought I might have had something with the way he was acting, and no one else said "mayor" not even PS.
REMOVE VOTE

Actually, Galain brought up the idea of a town-sided (de-)recruiter, Meanas put a label to it.

I...did?


Or are you messing up names again?

Meanas, on 05 June 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

Ok, so here's the scoop: Apparently I misunderstood game mechanics. As per usual, I thought that town, having no chance of winning in my perspective, was more of a starting block for the rest of the soon to grow factions. I decided that the best strategy for myself and soon to be team was to go after batman, end up recruited (or not sense obviously I was being an idiot), and then play the dynamics of a continually changing faction game where only the recruiters were certainly on one team.

My mistake.


So if I'm around, I'll keep playing by Ment's ruling, but more than likely, I'm the first lynch. I apologize to waste your time townies. If somehow our faction wins, and I stand corrected, profuse apologies will abound. But as I so candidly said, the strategy seems in favor of cults and batman with town as an afterthought.

If I'm not lynched, you can be assured I'll play as if my misunderstanding is water under the bridge, and I'll do a 180. Your choice.

Now you're issuing ultimatum's to town? Not fucking good enough. Your postings earlier practically BROKE the game, because by rights now you should be modkilled. Why? Because if you're town, you were actively stating that you are playing against your own team's interests (read it again, Atrahal, btw...he was very specific), to start. Secondly, because you were NOT modkilled, we are forced to lynch you as you are clearly not town - except that the mods are out on the verdict yet, which means you are actually probably town but Ment just doesn't want to swing the hammer. The problem here is that this is practically FORCING us to lynch a townie, or let you go despite the fact that your allegience has been as good as revealed which fucks up our interpretations of you for the rest of the game. And in the face of all this, you're DANGLING the fact that we've got this stupid fucking dilemma in our faces, AND the tone of your post suggests to me that you're not sincere in ANY of it - hell, "If somehow our faction wins" is enough to prove that you haven't really changed your mind at all.



This situation is messed up. Ment, we NEED a straightforward call on this, one way or the other, so that we can at least operate on certain ground here; not having to guess whether you guys are going to carry through on the modkill or not.



And I know you hate modkills, but seriously, how the hell are we supposed to proceed in this game with a guy whose posts obviously warrant a modkill unless he is scum? That, to me, as a player and as a mod, makes the choice black and white. He lives, he's scum. He dies, he's town. It's not complicated. :S

[Galain]

Emurlahn, on 05 June 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

Hmm, I read it that BM nominates a successor, who's only informed of their change in role if BM kicks the bucket.

Well either way it won't be the same player playing BM the second time round. This makes the game a lot harder for us. We have to kill BM 4 times. 4 different alts and people. We then have to kill 4 recruiters and hopefully not be recruited ourselves if we stand any chance of winning. I hope those extra roles Ment said maybe in play are in our favour. I'm going to assume they are and they give us a better chance.

@Telas

Above my response to Ano's post was that in every scenario he gave we'd have to lynch Osseric. He didn't give another side to the argument. I wasn't agreeing with him there I was just pointing it out.

Wrong. If we kill the Batman four times, it is GAME OVER. We either win or lose at that point, we don't have to kill the four recruiters afterwards (I'm assuming it's nigh impossible for two factions to have plurality by that stage, if not...sudden death? Or something...). Once the Batman is dead, we've either won or lost at that point. The trick is to do it fast enough that the Cults cannot gain more members than town beforehand. We need only be the largest single faction at the end of the game.


Additionally, Batman is trying to kill the Cult Leaders too. So hopefully his action reduces the rate of recruitment on town.

[Emurlahn]

The people I mentioned earlier on are still down there. How are people following Spite on a lynch train. The guy has 9 posts and one of them is the suspect post that I mentioned earlier.

[Emurlahn]

Galain, on 05 June 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 05 June 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

Hmm, I read it that BM nominates a successor, who's only informed of their change in role if BM kicks the bucket.

snip

Wrong. If we kill the Batman four times, it is GAME OVER. We either win or lose at that point, we don't have to kill the four recruiters afterwards (I'm assuming it's nigh impossible for two factions to have plurality by that stage, if not...sudden death? Or something...). Once the Batman is dead, we've either won or lost at that point. The trick is to do it fast enough that the Cults cannot gain more members than town beforehand. We need only be the largest single faction at the end of the game.


Additionally, Batman is trying to kill the Cult Leaders too. So hopefully his action reduces the rate of recruitment on town.

Aah i'm not the smartest cookie in the box although I knew this but forgotten it.

[Karosis]

Galain, on 05 June 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

This situation is messed up. Ment, we NEED a straightforward call on this, one way or the other, so that we can at least operate on certain ground here; not having to guess whether you guys are going to carry through on the modkill or not.



And I know you hate modkills, but seriously, how the hell are we supposed to proceed in this game with a guy whose posts obviously warrant a modkill unless he is scum? That, to me, as a player and as a mod, makes the choice black and white. He lives, he's scum. He dies, he's town. It's not complicated. :S

Ment has given a ruling on this though. He has said that he would be lenient on modkill decisions. That does not mean that Meanas is town, but rather that IF Meanas were town, THEN he would not be modkilled. Or at least, that was my reading, which coincidentally solves the problem you are pushing so hard for a resolution to.

[Korbas]

Telas, on 05 June 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

Anomandaris, on 05 June 2012 - 01:16 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 05 June 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

You all stand around staring daggers at each other. or at least wishing you had daggers. or at least shanks.

then the Radio picks up the Bowery PA system again, and you hear Penguin's cockney voice again:

Quote

Touring the riot scene. Gravely assessing the devastation. Upstanding mayor stuff. FFS HAS NO ONE CONSIDERED THAT OSSERIC IS THE JOKER?"

DAMNIT! I was trying to read this but my main thought was that Osseric was the joker and put his own name in his announcement as a...well...joke. Too much stuffs to read through.

First person outside of the Penguin to suggest Osseric might be the Joker.

Anomandaris, on 05 June 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

Karosis, on 05 June 2012 - 01:33 AM, said:

Anomandaris, on 05 June 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

Ok, so I finally actually caught up.

Here are my thoughts.

If town needs to have more than any of the cults for a victory at bowel movement's time of death, then taking out one of the leaders wouldn't be a bad idea.

So we have joker pointing at Osseric as bowel movement. I don't see how Joker could have any idea who bowel movement is, so possibly A) Joker really does think that Oss is bowel movement and would like to see him taken down a life. B--) (Sorry for dashes, trying to avoid a smiley appearing instead) The Joker thinks that Oss is one of the other cult leaders and wants to toss some heat on him. C) The joker is actually Oss, and put his own name in there to throw townsfolk off (or just as a joke). And finally D) Oss is just a random-ass name that the joker threw in.

Thoughts anyone? I'm physically exhausted after reading/posting this. Ill check back later.

I don't think I've ever seen a WIFOM statement as blatant as the Joker's "Osseric is the Batman" statement. As you say, there's no way the Joker can have any legitimate knowledge of who the Batman is at this point, so I don't see why there's any reason to treat his pronouncements with more strength than if a random player tossed out the opinion "I think Osseric is the Batman" without any evidence to back it up - eg. none.

So basically your logic (which I think is totally sound) destroys my option B and A. So now I'm down to Osseric is a random name thrown, likely, or Joker is osseric. I may thrown a vote on him if I'm not wholly convinced he isnt joker further into day 1.

Ano backs away from two of his stated options at the first sign of pressure against them, but doesn't back away from a preference for an Osseric vote, continuing to insist that he could well be the Joker (by the way, I really don't think any of the cult recruiters would throw their own name in that way, just invites too much attention).


So as we saw from the Penguin's message, at least one of the cult recruiters is very interested to know who Osseric is. The Joker, too, presumably would like us to keep all of our attention on Osseric, which is what the likes of Emurlahn have been doing. I am willing to bet that in the likely circumstance that Osseric is not Batman, then that Batman too would very much like to see if Osseric is actually one of the cult recruiters.

So for now

Vote Emurlahn

I don't neccesarily disagree with anything in your analysis, but I also don't believe voting based on the WIFOM created by Joker is a good idea. I'll reread this once I get out of bed.

[Path-Shaper]

Once BM dies his designated successor get notified that he is now the Batman.

Regarding the Meanas issue: He will not be modkilled.

-Liz

[Atrahal]

I disagree. I think Meanas's strategy originally wasn't to play against town, but to hedge his bets, playing in a way that would both help town and any potential recruiter. Targetting BM early on clearly plays both ways, and doesn't disadvantage town at all. My own opinion is that targetting a CL is the best way to go at first. But gunning for BM is equally valid. Without having any NAs to base a strategy on, we are building houses of cards at the moment. I see no advantage to coming down hard on people who the balance of posts suggests in on our team merely for a misreading of the game setup? If we take Meanas's posts and contrition as true, we have at least removed one player from the probability of being BM/CL. If we continue to do that, we improve our odds of winning dramatically.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Anomandaris, on 05 June 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

Hmm, I read it that BM nominates a successor, who's only informed of their change in role if BM kicks the bucket.

I'd like some clarification on the successor bit, if possible PS.

If it is like Big Ben (as the OP says), that means when Batman is lynched, he nominates (or has already nominated) a successor. That person will get a PM that says "You are now batman" or whatever, and they take over the role. Obviously, they'll still know the identity of anyone who has recruited them up to that point, which is a huge bonus for batman(s).

Anyways, I don't see Meanas as anything but town behaving badly. And Ment has come down on the side of no-modkill, so I'm more interested in looking at other targets. The case on Emur intrigues me.

[Galain]

Path-Shaper, on 05 June 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

Once BM dies his designated successor get notified that he is now the Batman.

Regarding the Meanas issue: He will not be modkilled.

-Liz

So he's scum, then. Well, I know where my vote is staying.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

I disagree. I think Meanas's strategy originally wasn't to play against town, but to hedge his bets, playing in a way that would both help town and any potential recruiter. Targetting BM early on clearly plays both ways, and doesn't disadvantage town at all. My own opinion is that targetting a CL is the best way to go at first. But gunning for BM is equally valid. Without having any NAs to base a strategy on, we are building houses of cards at the moment. I see no advantage to coming down hard on people who the balance of posts suggests in on our team merely for a misreading of the game setup? If we take Meanas's posts and contrition as true, we have at least removed one player from the probability of being BM/CL. If we continue to do that, we improve our odds of winning dramatically.

I don't know about "dramatically", but I agree with this.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Telas, on 05 June 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

So as we saw from the Penguin's message, at least one of the cult recruiters is very interested to know who Osseric is. The Joker, too, presumably would like us to keep all of our attention on Osseric, which is what the likes of Emurlahn have been doing. I am willing to bet that in the likely circumstance that Osseric is not Batman, then that Batman too would very much like to see if Osseric is actually one of the cult recruiters.

So for now

Vote Emurlahn

I'll lay my vote here.

Vote Emurlahn

[Korbas]

Goddamn. Atrahal, you truly want to baby people.

[Galain]

Meanas, on 05 June 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

I would point to the fact that lynching me does little for anyone. If I am a cult leader, I have to be the stupidest one in the game. Personally, it's fun baiting hot heads and dragging out dragonsecks, esp on day one. But if you want serious, here is some more (glasses pushed back up the nose, pipe adjusted, hearth still burning, check).

Cult has plurality in three days (WCS or BCS, pick your poison). So I ask, what the fuck can town do about it? Do we have a mayor who can convince the convicts to return to their normal thug status minus the Criminal Mastermind leader? once recurited, town is dead and the cultist arises.

My perspective, as a townie along for the ride, is embrace it. you will most likely be cult, or lose cruelly as one of the few townie specimens. thus, I'm not laying down an attack plan for any cult leader whatsoever until I actually have a team of sorts (not that an aptly placed recruitment wouldn't switch my allegences). This is a fluid game peeps!!! a game of chance and whim. BM is the only constant, and therefor must die. if you think you can find BM 4 times before cult has plurality, you are crazier than I seem to sound (that works right?)

argue that motherfuckers

For those of you who think he's not playing against his team, explain to me how "embrace it. you will most likely be cult or lose" and "until I actually have a team of sorts" does not sound like he is NOT going to be playing in favour of town?

[Atrahal]

Korbas, on 05 June 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

Goddamn. Atrahal, you truly want to baby people.

What can I say, I'm made of heart!

[Liosan]

I'm here, i'm queer and i'm catching up.

[Korbas]

That's fine my friend, it's just quite opposite of my viewpoint. Expect to be on the opposite side of the majority of lynches.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 1. 6 hours and 38 minutes left

22 people are still alive : Ampelas, Anomandaris, Anthras, Atrahal, D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Sheptatha Lore, Spite, Telas, Thyrllan, Tulas Shorn

takes 12 votes to lynch or 11 to go to night.

1 votes for Omtose (Karosis)
1 vote for Fener (Rashan)
1 vote for Eloth (Galain)
1 vote for Spite (Emurlahn)
1 vote for Rashan (Meanas)
4 votes for Meanas (Spite, Galain, Eloth,D'riss)
1 vote for D'riss (Atrahal)
2 vote for Emurlahn (Telas, Sheltata Lore)

-Liz

[Karosis]

Eloth, on 05 June 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

And as someone else said on this page, the Joker also mentioned a mayor. Now, there can be an interesting correlation there... did Meanas named the de-recruiter a mayor by accident or random choice, did he name a mayor because he read in the Penguin message and it stuck (by accident or deliberately), or did he post the Penguin message and then later capitulated on it? Am I correct in assuming that the Penguin post was before Meanas mentioned a mayor? Because that would eliminate the chance that the Penguin is digging Meanas an extra comfy snug deep grave through his message.

Despite my own fixation on the whole Meanas thing (he just rubs me the wrong way, seems extremely scummy and in addition to that there are plenty of quotes that support that feelingno matter whether or not there will be a modkill), I am quite satisfied so far with day 1.
The Osseric = BM/Joker thing can be wifom, but I bet it will be tested at some point, probably if we fail to lynch a CL/BM in the first 2-3 days, which is going to make Osseric a quite valuable asset for further analysis - if he's a dead man walking, cult may not want to touch him, BM won't jump into him and we will know who or what he was and how to read his statements.
That aside, we have several other statements, a good few quote posts, some active posting, little spam, and generally decent activity.

And now I'm out for a while.

This post stood out to me quite strongly, specifically the underlined section. Eloth is trying to get us to lynch Osseric at some point without explicitly stating that he finds Osseric scummy himself. If someone smart was trying to push an Osseric lynch, this is how they'd go about it - realising the lack of evidence to work with at the moment, they create an expectation and inevitability about his lynch in the future, all the while making it seem like they didn't have much to do with it. Knowing how to read Osseric's statements serves us no better than knowing how to read the statements of anyone else at this point.


I could see Eloth as a cult leader based on this post - trying to set up recruitments down the line while providing something his future followers could look over and interpret as orders. Key in the cults' thinking will be how to avoid recruiting the same player as someone else, and lo and behold Eloth is also trying to imply that the cult leaders should avoid picking Osseric.

I don't have much time, but I'm going to have a quick spin through the rest of Eloth's posts to see if there's anything there.