[Ampelas]

Sorry Ano, missed your reply in my last read.

Anomandaris, on 23 May 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 23 May 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on 23 May 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

It is very interesting that SL was knocked off by the killers. Shelly was setting herself up for a lynch, and seeing that she was inno (and the killers know she's inno with no chance of being on their team) I don't understand why they wasted a night kill on her.

MOs include:
-Shelly was onto something and/or someone
-Shelly was way off base, and thus the WIFOM over her speculations would hinder town
-killing Shelly would point us to someone who voiced annonyance with her
-killing Shelly was a reaction to her irritating behavior
-it was meta-kill meant to pick off Khells, not Shelly
-it was a random kill from a provisional list made before any real content was seated in thread

Personally, I'm leaning toward an MO having to do with how annoying Shelly was. Being cagey and being mafia, I am going to actually start looking into people who were not annoyed at Shelly, thinking that the killers would distance themselves from their kill. I believe this is counterintuitive, hence the long winded analysis.

I want to say it's because they found Shelly annoying. I can't count the number of times I've wished I was scum so that I could kill off that annoying player

I'm not exactly sure where you are going with this list. Shelly was really only interested in lynching TS, who then got lynched. There were many people voicing annoyance with her behaviour. In fact, I think I was the only person who found it rather amusing Any other possibility you listed really doesn't tell us much about who had it in for Shelly. Personally I think you are more likely right with your first statement; Shelly was killed off because she was decidedly innocent.

I also am not really sure what you mean by the final bit of your post. if it is counterintuitive why are you doing it?

So, I was really just checking in to see the night result before heading to bed. Guess I'll see the answers to this and so much more in the morning

Have you ever been scum (or are you scum now...)? Killers play a game of waiting. They have to survive a certain number of nights and they win, esp in a game without healers, guards, or finders. Barring any tomfoolery (namely people not getting their act together) there will be one lynch per day, and one kill by night. Simple math for complex numbers. Fourth day is D-day, with 4 town and 2 scum at WCS.

This is a very basic M&P, and I'm not sure how you reason that scum would want to kill off a distraction.

As for TS, I would remind you that I started seriously looking at TS before Shelly. So not everyone was Shelly's sheep on that train, contrary to what you describe.

And the red highlighted phrase is also very careless. To the paired killers, everyone is decidedly innocent. They can talk to each other and they know they don't have a symp. Therefore, there is no "better" kill for them outside of looking for the best manner to screw over towns' ability to function.

Finally, the counterintuitive part of my post is what other people have already pointed out: I am looking at people who looked disinterested in the night kill target. Instead of looking at who nudged in favor of lynching Shelly (like a lot of the current suspects listed), I'm looking for those who knew Shelly would die over night or even those who realized a little too late that Shelly would have been nice to keep around to screw us on day 2. Either way, I don't think our killers were trying to steer a shelly lynch yesterday. Shelly was doing find allllll by herself.

First off, you are right about the sentence that you highlighted. I didn't think that one through. Although it occurs to me now that because Shelly looked so inno and had started to drop the RP she was looking less likely as a lynch target. Perhaps the killers wanted to deprive us of a player who we were sure was innocent.

Secondly, the only time I played scum myself and my partner lost miserably in very short order...

I have no idea where you got that I was suggesting people were being sheep in following Shelly. I personally thought the TS lynch was the best possible lynch for day one, and would have voted for him had I the chance.

I still don't understand fully the logic behind looking for people who were disinterested in Shelly. Scum have to fit in, because doing anything else will be suspicious. As has been shown by the emphasis on those of us who did not find Shelly annoying.

[Thyrllan]

fell asleep last night before postigpng.
Wtf on driss for the last minute actions.

First of driss a no lynch is not always terrible, usually yes, but given how quiet it was yesterday a lynch might not have gained us much. Granted I might have voted rashan had I been awake I was still happier with my galain vote.

until driss posts today. Straight out of the traps the vote on galain based on a oh my death at a mafia game post.
Straight after anos post, this makes driss more scummy than galain now in my eyes, as if he's tryin to rapid start a wagon to get a day done in quickly to make up for yesterday.

Votuong either driss or korbas today.

[D'riss]

D, on 24 May 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

4 anons on.

Galain has my vote tomorrow for popping on late and not bothering to help town get a lynch. If I'm still alive that is.

This why I'm voting Galain.

[D'riss]

Galain, on 24 May 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Whelp.

I do not know what to say.

Except fuck, another townie down. Although i guess it was weird i hoped the scum would nightkill scum. That made little sense.

And this is why I asked what he was talking about. I mean, how in the world would a scum kill their partner?

[Galain]

D, on 24 May 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

Galain, on 24 May 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Whelp.

I do not know what to say.

Except fuck, another townie down. Although i guess it was weird i hoped the scum would nightkill scum. That made little sense.

And this is why I asked what he was talking about. I mean, how in the world would a scum kill their partner?

I don't know, i wanted to know what night would bring, until i realized it would just be another dead teammate. I think that's hardly a reason to vote for me.

[Galain]

Oh, also, i'm not going to help us get a kill for the sake of not wasting a lynch. I'm not convinced that Rashan is Scum, so i won't vote for him. We're down quite a few towns already, if yesterday's lynch had passed we might have been down four townies and zero scums. Is that so hard to understand?

Also, geez, since when is coming on late a valid voting excuse? I was busy today, and you're probably in another timezone than i am.

[Ampelas]

Rashan, on 24 May 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

The theory here is that just about EVERYONE wanted to get rid of Shelly. I myself and anyone else that subscribes to this theory is doing so based on the fact that by saying you didn't see anything suspicious you can then turn around and say that you were right and the rest of us were wrong. We are working under the assumption that a killer MAY have beeen one of the people that said to ignore him. Korbas fit into this as well.


You're right, Khell DID mention several people but YOU were the one he had a vote on. I suspect that the roleplaying would tone down by day 2. He was already starting to be more helpful by the end of the day. The killers most likely took him out to eliminate what they considered to be the largest threat. If he could run the thread AND give a logical case on day 2 they would be fucked.


Why not be potentially scoping out or setting yourself up for potential targets all along? By end of day you would want to have options. I fail to see how these two statements contradict eachother. Early in the day I'm sure you would have a provisional list and then rearrange and confirm by night.



Looks like YOU are casting aspersions. I'm just saying that the middle of the road poster theory sucks. Either someone is going to be a high, middle or low poster. Period. It usually depends on the time on their hands. We DO most often find scum in the low poster category ONLY BECAUSE they often are afraid to say something that could be built into a case later.


Where have I NOT answered D'riss? The questions and accusations against me have been based on:

1) My vote on Shelly

2) My switch to the Tulas train.

I have REPEATEDLY said that MY vote was based on the theory that a killer might try to hide as an annoying high poster for a change. I have also said that I thought Tulas's drive by agreement with Shelly looked suspicious like EVERYONE ELSE DID and changed when after a few beers I logged in, didn't see a time but saw lots of votes going and thought fuck Shelly isn't happening better get a Tulas lynch. As it turns out BOTH were wrong. I'm NOT THE ONLY ONE GUILTY OF MAKING THIS MISTAKE.


Actuallly I started to suspect Telas because he threw down the vote on me when more eyes started looking at you. I think he got scared.


I believe this whole case is a flailing attempt to not lose a killer. I'm certain that we are looking at Ampelas and Telas. A lot of the same logic could be applied to a Korbas and Telas pair though as well, but I'm feeling Ampelas more. At this point in the game the killers cannot afford to lose each other.

I'm not going to post the whole argument again because it is getting too long.

My feelings on the Shelly train: I advocated giving Shelly another night to see if she would drop the RP, thinking that it was just day one shenanigans. And sure, a killer MAY have been ignoring Shelly's posts as I was, but you are barking up the wrong tree with me, I am innocent. And I dare you to find a single post of mine stating that I was right and all of you were wrong. What would that prove?

I'm not sure of your meaning when you say "I suspect the role playing would tone down by day two". Are you saying that you thought at the time that the role playing would be restricted to day one? Because if so, why were you pushing so hard for Shelly's lynch? Or are you saying that now you think Shelly's RP would have been toned down on day two? Because that had already begun to occur on day one.

You haven't commented at all on my defence, despite me mentioning it several times, and I find this strangest of all. If you disagree with it, say so and I will answer any questions you have. But ignoring it is making me think you only see and comment on what will fit into your case, and that is super scummy. Also, your "no, you!" comment...

Sure, the middle of the road poster theory sucks. I maintain that people will continue to post in their own style whether they are scum or not. I tend to make a few long posts rather than lots of smaller posts, and that doesn't change no matter my role. However, the theory that the people making sense are scum also sucks. Have you seen the vote Khell put down on me? That was basically his reasoning:

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:

Remove Vote

Vote Ampelas


Anomandaris is clearly the most intelligent best poster here, but Ampelas has been speaking the most sense. Ampelas is a killer of course. This mafia thing is quite easy when you know how to play it.

It's bullshit.

You still haven't answered my question, either. Why is it that I am suspicious because Khell mentions me, but when he mentions you he is just stirring up dust? You also haven't said a thing about my comment that you are attacking people who disagree with you. Contrary to what you seem to think, not everyone who questions you is scum.

To answer your comment about Telas, he had said several times that he found you suspicious, long before your case gained any traction. With that in mind, I don't find it at all strange that he put down a vote for you. You said that when you voted for Shelly you wanted to give her some time to see what else she would come up with. Why could that not also apply to Telas? I think you are reaching again, and you are starting to sound like you are contradicting yourself.

[Ampelas]

Galain, on 24 May 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

Oh, also, i'm not going to help us get a kill for the sake of not wasting a lynch. I'm not convinced that Rashan is Scum, so i won't vote for him. We're down quite a few towns already, if yesterday's lynch had passed we might have been down four townies and zero scums. Is that so hard to understand?

Also, geez, since when is coming on late a valid voting excuse? I was busy today, and you're probably in another timezone than i am.

A lynch would have given us valuable information. Information is what town is rather short of at the moment. As it is, we lost a chance to hit scum, while they gained another night to kill another of us off.

[Galain]

Ampelas, on 25 May 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

Galain, on 24 May 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

Oh, also, i'm not going to help us get a kill for the sake of not wasting a lynch. I'm not convinced that Rashan is Scum, so i won't vote for him. We're down quite a few towns already, if yesterday's lynch had passed we might have been down four townies and zero scums. Is that so hard to understand?

Also, geez, since when is coming on late a valid voting excuse? I was busy today, and you're probably in another timezone than i am.

A lynch would have given us valuable information. Information is what town is rather short of at the moment. As it is, we lost a chance to hit scum, while they gained another night to kill another of us off.

What information would it have given us? If Rashan is a Townie or a Scum? There are several better cases that weren't based on a drunk hammervote. But, that's my opinion.

[Telas]

I am going to look over some stuff later, but for now, my mind still hasn't changed.

vote Rashan

[Telas]

Galain, on 25 May 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 25 May 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

Galain, on 24 May 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

Oh, also, i'm not going to help us get a kill for the sake of not wasting a lynch. I'm not convinced that Rashan is Scum, so i won't vote for him. We're down quite a few towns already, if yesterday's lynch had passed we might have been down four townies and zero scums. Is that so hard to understand?

Also, geez, since when is coming on late a valid voting excuse? I was busy today, and you're probably in another timezone than i am.

A lynch would have given us valuable information. Information is what town is rather short of at the moment. As it is, we lost a chance to hit scum, while they gained another night to kill another of us off.

What information would it have given us? If Rashan is a Townie or a Scum? There are several better cases that weren't based on a drunk hammervote. But, that's my opinion.

My vote wasn't based on a hammer vote, for the record. It was based on some shifty actions and reactions from Rashan's part.

[Rashan]

Ampelas, on 25 May 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

Rashan, on 24 May 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

The theory here is that just about EVERYONE wanted to get rid of Shelly. I myself and anyone else that subscribes to this theory is doing so based on the fact that by saying you didn't see anything suspicious you can then turn around and say that you were right and the rest of us were wrong. We are working under the assumption that a killer MAY have beeen one of the people that said to ignore him. Korbas fit into this as well.


You're right, Khell DID mention several people but YOU were the one he had a vote on. I suspect that the roleplaying would tone down by day 2. He was already starting to be more helpful by the end of the day. The killers most likely took him out to eliminate what they considered to be the largest threat. If he could run the thread AND give a logical case on day 2 they would be fucked.


Why not be potentially scoping out or setting yourself up for potential targets all along? By end of day you would want to have options. I fail to see how these two statements contradict eachother. Early in the day I'm sure you would have a provisional list and then rearrange and confirm by night.



Looks like YOU are casting aspersions. I'm just saying that the middle of the road poster theory sucks. Either someone is going to be a high, middle or low poster. Period. It usually depends on the time on their hands. We DO most often find scum in the low poster category ONLY BECAUSE they often are afraid to say something that could be built into a case later.


Where have I NOT answered D'riss? The questions and accusations against me have been based on:

1) My vote on Shelly

2) My switch to the Tulas train.

I have REPEATEDLY said that MY vote was based on the theory that a killer might try to hide as an annoying high poster for a change. I have also said that I thought Tulas's drive by agreement with Shelly looked suspicious like EVERYONE ELSE DID and changed when after a few beers I logged in, didn't see a time but saw lots of votes going and thought fuck Shelly isn't happening better get a Tulas lynch. As it turns out BOTH were wrong. I'm NOT THE ONLY ONE GUILTY OF MAKING THIS MISTAKE.


Actuallly I started to suspect Telas because he threw down the vote on me when more eyes started looking at you. I think he got scared.


I believe this whole case is a flailing attempt to not lose a killer. I'm certain that we are looking at Ampelas and Telas. A lot of the same logic could be applied to a Korbas and Telas pair though as well, but I'm feeling Ampelas more. At this point in the game the killers cannot afford to lose each other.

I'm not going to post the whole argument again because it is getting too long.

My feelings on the Shelly train: I advocated giving Shelly another night to see if she would drop the RP, thinking that it was just day one shenanigans. And sure, a killer MAY have been ignoring Shelly's posts as I was, but you are barking up the wrong tree with me, I am innocent. And I dare you to find a single post of mine stating that I was right and all of you were wrong. What would that prove?

I'm not sure of your meaning when you say "I suspect the role playing would tone down by day two". Are you saying that you thought at the time that the role playing would be restricted to day one? Because if so, why were you pushing so hard for Shelly's lynch? Or are you saying that now you think Shelly's RP would have been toned down on day two? Because that had already begun to occur on day one.

You haven't commented at all on my defence, despite me mentioning it several times, and I find this strangest of all. If you disagree with it, say so and I will answer any questions you have. But ignoring it is making me think you only see and comment on what will fit into your case, and that is super scummy. Also, your "no, you!" comment...

Sure, the middle of the road poster theory sucks. I maintain that people will continue to post in their own style whether they are scum or not. I tend to make a few long posts rather than lots of smaller posts, and that doesn't change no matter my role. However, the theory that the people making sense are scum also sucks. Have you seen the vote Khell put down on me? That was basically his reasoning:

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:

Remove Vote

Vote Ampelas


Anomandaris is clearly the most intelligent best poster here, but Ampelas has been speaking the most sense. Ampelas is a killer of course. This mafia thing is quite easy when you know how to play it.

It's bullshit.

You still haven't answered my question, either. Why is it that I am suspicious because Khell mentions me, but when he mentions you he is just stirring up dust? You also haven't said a thing about my comment that you are attacking people who disagree with you. Contrary to what you seem to think, not everyone who questions you is scum.

To answer your comment about Telas, he had said several times that he found you suspicious, long before your case gained any traction. With that in mind, I don't find it at all strange that he put down a vote for you. You said that when you voted for Shelly you wanted to give her some time to see what else she would come up with. Why could that not also apply to Telas? I think you are reaching again, and you are starting to sound like you are contradicting yourself.

First question: "Why is it that I am suspicious because Khell mentions me, but when he mentions you he is just stirring up dust?" The middle posters were just a list. I wasn't meaning me so much as all of us in THAT list. It was just like "look who's in the mid range". I thought it was odd that he fixated on YOU in particular. And in a couple of posts I might add. But aside from that it was the fact that i was looking for distancing from Shelly and the low content in your posts up untill you OMGUSd a vote on me.

Regarding your statement that I am attacking people who disagree with me : actually I'm not. While I didn't agree with D'riss, I don't see anything but townie there. I reviewed him and yes he's been wrong, but none of us are right 100%. Same thing with Korbas. I reread him and the vibe I'm getting is someone that just doesn't know what to make of this situation. I don't feel like that's a good vote. Actually, DESPITE the fact that you still seem to be after ME, I haven't decided that you are where my vote should be yet. Recent actions are making me rethink things a bit. I haven't decided yet whether we have BOTH been manipulated into our votes.

"I think you are reaching again, and you are starting to sound like you are contradicting yourself." I really don't think I've been contradicting myself. I feel like I was pretty solid on the Shelly case and then the case against you. MY Shelly case was STILL that someone could act annoying and be a high poster and potentially avoid getting lynched. Historically role playing ends after day 1, but acting annoying? I've seen a few folks maintain that through entire games!

And if I change my mind about any of my previous stances then I'm NOT contradicting myself. I assure you I will let you know WHY IF I decide to.

I have a few theories going through my head at the moment and I will consider them before my vote goes down.

[Fener]

Sorry for not being around much today, reread enough to see that we managed to miss a lynch - which sucks - but not enough to have a solid opinion or argument on any of the cases. Don't have time to be around this evening, but should be able to make up for it over the weekend.

[Rashan]

Telas, on 25 May 2012 - 12:21 AM, said:

Galain, on 25 May 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 25 May 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

Galain, on 24 May 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

Oh, also, i'm not going to help us get a kill for the sake of not wasting a lynch. I'm not convinced that Rashan is Scum, so i won't vote for him. We're down quite a few towns already, if yesterday's lynch had passed we might have been down four townies and zero scums. Is that so hard to understand?

Also, geez, since when is coming on late a valid voting excuse? I was busy today, and you're probably in another timezone than i am.

A lynch would have given us valuable information. Information is what town is rather short of at the moment. As it is, we lost a chance to hit scum, while they gained another night to kill another of us off.

What information would it have given us? If Rashan is a Townie or a Scum? There are several better cases that weren't based on a drunk hammervote. But, that's my opinion.

My vote wasn't based on a hammer vote, for the record. It was based on some shifty actions and reactions from Rashan's part.

DAMN this hard-on you have for me turns me on.

[D'riss]

Remove Vote



You're right Galain, it isn't much of a reason to vote you. I was pretty pissed off when I came on to see the Day 2 stalemate (and how little had actually happened since my last previous post).


For reals today, I'm read to test the Amp - Telas connection, for no other reason that it probably affords us the most information at this ponit. Except for one fact niggling the back of my brain. Why was Rashan hard to lynch? Thing is, scum actually want lynches of townies to happen too, because it allows them to whittle down the field and potentially win faster. Only THREE people were willing to actually lay a vote down on Rashan. If he was innocent, I can't help but feel that scum would have been more than happy to lay their votes down on him to deadify him.

[Ampelas]

Rashan, on 25 May 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 25 May 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

Rashan, on 24 May 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

The theory here is that just about EVERYONE wanted to get rid of Shelly. I myself and anyone else that subscribes to this theory is doing so based on the fact that by saying you didn't see anything suspicious you can then turn around and say that you were right and the rest of us were wrong. We are working under the assumption that a killer MAY have beeen one of the people that said to ignore him. Korbas fit into this as well.


You're right, Khell DID mention several people but YOU were the one he had a vote on. I suspect that the roleplaying would tone down by day 2. He was already starting to be more helpful by the end of the day. The killers most likely took him out to eliminate what they considered to be the largest threat. If he could run the thread AND give a logical case on day 2 they would be fucked.


Why not be potentially scoping out or setting yourself up for potential targets all along? By end of day you would want to have options. I fail to see how these two statements contradict eachother. Early in the day I'm sure you would have a provisional list and then rearrange and confirm by night.



Looks like YOU are casting aspersions. I'm just saying that the middle of the road poster theory sucks. Either someone is going to be a high, middle or low poster. Period. It usually depends on the time on their hands. We DO most often find scum in the low poster category ONLY BECAUSE they often are afraid to say something that could be built into a case later.


Where have I NOT answered D'riss? The questions and accusations against me have been based on:

1) My vote on Shelly

2) My switch to the Tulas train.

I have REPEATEDLY said that MY vote was based on the theory that a killer might try to hide as an annoying high poster for a change. I have also said that I thought Tulas's drive by agreement with Shelly looked suspicious like EVERYONE ELSE DID and changed when after a few beers I logged in, didn't see a time but saw lots of votes going and thought fuck Shelly isn't happening better get a Tulas lynch. As it turns out BOTH were wrong. I'm NOT THE ONLY ONE GUILTY OF MAKING THIS MISTAKE.


Actuallly I started to suspect Telas because he threw down the vote on me when more eyes started looking at you. I think he got scared.


I believe this whole case is a flailing attempt to not lose a killer. I'm certain that we are looking at Ampelas and Telas. A lot of the same logic could be applied to a Korbas and Telas pair though as well, but I'm feeling Ampelas more. At this point in the game the killers cannot afford to lose each other.

I'm not going to post the whole argument again because it is getting too long.

My feelings on the Shelly train: I advocated giving Shelly another night to see if she would drop the RP, thinking that it was just day one shenanigans. And sure, a killer MAY have been ignoring Shelly's posts as I was, but you are barking up the wrong tree with me, I am innocent. And I dare you to find a single post of mine stating that I was right and all of you were wrong. What would that prove?

I'm not sure of your meaning when you say "I suspect the role playing would tone down by day two". Are you saying that you thought at the time that the role playing would be restricted to day one? Because if so, why were you pushing so hard for Shelly's lynch? Or are you saying that now you think Shelly's RP would have been toned down on day two? Because that had already begun to occur on day one.

You haven't commented at all on my defence, despite me mentioning it several times, and I find this strangest of all. If you disagree with it, say so and I will answer any questions you have. But ignoring it is making me think you only see and comment on what will fit into your case, and that is super scummy. Also, your "no, you!" comment...

Sure, the middle of the road poster theory sucks. I maintain that people will continue to post in their own style whether they are scum or not. I tend to make a few long posts rather than lots of smaller posts, and that doesn't change no matter my role. However, the theory that the people making sense are scum also sucks. Have you seen the vote Khell put down on me? That was basically his reasoning:

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:

Remove Vote

Vote Ampelas


Anomandaris is clearly the most intelligent best poster here, but Ampelas has been speaking the most sense. Ampelas is a killer of course. This mafia thing is quite easy when you know how to play it.

It's bullshit.

You still haven't answered my question, either. Why is it that I am suspicious because Khell mentions me, but when he mentions you he is just stirring up dust? You also haven't said a thing about my comment that you are attacking people who disagree with you. Contrary to what you seem to think, not everyone who questions you is scum.

To answer your comment about Telas, he had said several times that he found you suspicious, long before your case gained any traction. With that in mind, I don't find it at all strange that he put down a vote for you. You said that when you voted for Shelly you wanted to give her some time to see what else she would come up with. Why could that not also apply to Telas? I think you are reaching again, and you are starting to sound like you are contradicting yourself.

First question: "Why is it that I am suspicious because Khell mentions me, but when he mentions you he is just stirring up dust?" The middle posters were just a list. I wasn't meaning me so much as all of us in THAT list. It was just like "look who's in the mid range". I thought it was odd that he fixated on YOU in particular. And in a couple of posts I might add. But aside from that it was the fact that i was looking for distancing from Shelly and the low content in your posts up untill you OMGUSd a vote on me.

Regarding your statement that I am attacking people who disagree with me : actually I'm not. While I didn't agree with D'riss, I don't see anything but townie there. I reviewed him and yes he's been wrong, but none of us are right 100%. Same thing with Korbas. I reread him and the vibe I'm getting is someone that just doesn't know what to make of this situation. I don't feel like that's a good vote. Actually, DESPITE the fact that you still seem to be after ME, I haven't decided that you are where my vote should be yet. Recent actions are making me rethink things a bit. I haven't decided yet whether we have BOTH been manipulated into our votes.

"I think you are reaching again, and you are starting to sound like you are contradicting yourself." I really don't think I've been contradicting myself. I feel like I was pretty solid on the Shelly case and then the case against you. MY Shelly case was STILL that someone could act annoying and be a high poster and potentially avoid getting lynched. Historically role playing ends after day 1, but acting annoying? I've seen a few folks maintain that through entire games!

And if I change my mind about any of my previous stances then I'm NOT contradicting myself. I assure you I will let you know WHY IF I decide to.

I have a few theories going through my head at the moment and I will consider them before my vote goes down.

I'm actually starting to wonder the same thing. This day and the last day have basically been about you, me and Telas. Ano has had his own stuff going on that hasn't really been commented on, but it seems like everyone else has been coming on, agreeing with this or that post and leaving again.

I'm starting to have my doubts on Telas, and something about Korbas is rubbing me the wrong way. I will have more time tonight to look back and figure out what it is that is bothering me about those two.

And for the record, I never had a problem with your case on Shelly. I understood why people wanted to lynch Khell, even if I didn't understand why they couldn't see it for the satire it was.

[Rashan]

D, on 25 May 2012 - 01:30 AM, said:

Remove Vote



You're right Galain, it isn't much of a reason to vote you. I was pretty pissed off when I came on to see the Day 2 stalemate (and how little had actually happened since my last previous post).


For reals today, I'm read to test the Amp - Telas connection, for no other reason that it probably affords us the most information at this ponit. Except for one fact niggling the back of my brain. Why was Rashan hard to lynch? Thing is, scum actually want lynches of townies to happen too, because it allows them to whittle down the field and potentially win faster. Only THREE people were willing to actually lay a vote down on Rashan. If he was innocent, I can't help but feel that scum would have been more than happy to lay their votes down on him to deadify him.

You're right D'riss that's been niggling me too. I really got the feeling that scum was on my train.

This Karosis kill also is bugging me. But how about THIS for the theory, and IT could have worked.

So WE look at who Karosis has been looking at and the only one we find is Ando with his theory on Korbas and Amp. Karosis is NKd so now we wonder if Ando took him out. This just makes the theories regarding Korbas and Ampelas no longer valid and so we target Ando. Ando cf's town and the killers get another night.

[Rashan]

Ampelas, on 25 May 2012 - 02:00 AM, said:

Rashan, on 25 May 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 25 May 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

Rashan, on 24 May 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

The theory here is that just about EVERYONE wanted to get rid of Shelly. I myself and anyone else that subscribes to this theory is doing so based on the fact that by saying you didn't see anything suspicious you can then turn around and say that you were right and the rest of us were wrong. We are working under the assumption that a killer MAY have beeen one of the people that said to ignore him. Korbas fit into this as well.


You're right, Khell DID mention several people but YOU were the one he had a vote on. I suspect that the roleplaying would tone down by day 2. He was already starting to be more helpful by the end of the day. The killers most likely took him out to eliminate what they considered to be the largest threat. If he could run the thread AND give a logical case on day 2 they would be fucked.


Why not be potentially scoping out or setting yourself up for potential targets all along? By end of day you would want to have options. I fail to see how these two statements contradict eachother. Early in the day I'm sure you would have a provisional list and then rearrange and confirm by night.



Looks like YOU are casting aspersions. I'm just saying that the middle of the road poster theory sucks. Either someone is going to be a high, middle or low poster. Period. It usually depends on the time on their hands. We DO most often find scum in the low poster category ONLY BECAUSE they often are afraid to say something that could be built into a case later.


Where have I NOT answered D'riss? The questions and accusations against me have been based on:

1) My vote on Shelly

2) My switch to the Tulas train.

I have REPEATEDLY said that MY vote was based on the theory that a killer might try to hide as an annoying high poster for a change. I have also said that I thought Tulas's drive by agreement with Shelly looked suspicious like EVERYONE ELSE DID and changed when after a few beers I logged in, didn't see a time but saw lots of votes going and thought fuck Shelly isn't happening better get a Tulas lynch. As it turns out BOTH were wrong. I'm NOT THE ONLY ONE GUILTY OF MAKING THIS MISTAKE.


Actuallly I started to suspect Telas because he threw down the vote on me when more eyes started looking at you. I think he got scared.


I believe this whole case is a flailing attempt to not lose a killer. I'm certain that we are looking at Ampelas and Telas. A lot of the same logic could be applied to a Korbas and Telas pair though as well, but I'm feeling Ampelas more. At this point in the game the killers cannot afford to lose each other.

I'm not going to post the whole argument again because it is getting too long.

My feelings on the Shelly train: I advocated giving Shelly another night to see if she would drop the RP, thinking that it was just day one shenanigans. And sure, a killer MAY have been ignoring Shelly's posts as I was, but you are barking up the wrong tree with me, I am innocent. And I dare you to find a single post of mine stating that I was right and all of you were wrong. What would that prove?

I'm not sure of your meaning when you say "I suspect the role playing would tone down by day two". Are you saying that you thought at the time that the role playing would be restricted to day one? Because if so, why were you pushing so hard for Shelly's lynch? Or are you saying that now you think Shelly's RP would have been toned down on day two? Because that had already begun to occur on day one.

You haven't commented at all on my defence, despite me mentioning it several times, and I find this strangest of all. If you disagree with it, say so and I will answer any questions you have. But ignoring it is making me think you only see and comment on what will fit into your case, and that is super scummy. Also, your "no, you!" comment...

Sure, the middle of the road poster theory sucks. I maintain that people will continue to post in their own style whether they are scum or not. I tend to make a few long posts rather than lots of smaller posts, and that doesn't change no matter my role. However, the theory that the people making sense are scum also sucks. Have you seen the vote Khell put down on me? That was basically his reasoning:

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:

Remove Vote

Vote Ampelas


Anomandaris is clearly the most intelligent best poster here, but Ampelas has been speaking the most sense. Ampelas is a killer of course. This mafia thing is quite easy when you know how to play it.

It's bullshit.

You still haven't answered my question, either. Why is it that I am suspicious because Khell mentions me, but when he mentions you he is just stirring up dust? You also haven't said a thing about my comment that you are attacking people who disagree with you. Contrary to what you seem to think, not everyone who questions you is scum.

To answer your comment about Telas, he had said several times that he found you suspicious, long before your case gained any traction. With that in mind, I don't find it at all strange that he put down a vote for you. You said that when you voted for Shelly you wanted to give her some time to see what else she would come up with. Why could that not also apply to Telas? I think you are reaching again, and you are starting to sound like you are contradicting yourself.

First question: "Why is it that I am suspicious because Khell mentions me, but when he mentions you he is just stirring up dust?" The middle posters were just a list. I wasn't meaning me so much as all of us in THAT list. It was just like "look who's in the mid range". I thought it was odd that he fixated on YOU in particular. And in a couple of posts I might add. But aside from that it was the fact that i was looking for distancing from Shelly and the low content in your posts up untill you OMGUSd a vote on me.

Regarding your statement that I am attacking people who disagree with me : actually I'm not. While I didn't agree with D'riss, I don't see anything but townie there. I reviewed him and yes he's been wrong, but none of us are right 100%. Same thing with Korbas. I reread him and the vibe I'm getting is someone that just doesn't know what to make of this situation. I don't feel like that's a good vote. Actually, DESPITE the fact that you still seem to be after ME, I haven't decided that you are where my vote should be yet. Recent actions are making me rethink things a bit. I haven't decided yet whether we have BOTH been manipulated into our votes.

"I think you are reaching again, and you are starting to sound like you are contradicting yourself." I really don't think I've been contradicting myself. I feel like I was pretty solid on the Shelly case and then the case against you. MY Shelly case was STILL that someone could act annoying and be a high poster and potentially avoid getting lynched. Historically role playing ends after day 1, but acting annoying? I've seen a few folks maintain that through entire games!

And if I change my mind about any of my previous stances then I'm NOT contradicting myself. I assure you I will let you know WHY IF I decide to.

I have a few theories going through my head at the moment and I will consider them before my vote goes down.

I'm actually starting to wonder the same thing. This day and the last day have basically been about you, me and Telas. Ano has had his own stuff going on that hasn't really been commented on, but it seems like everyone else has been coming on, agreeing with this or that post and leaving again.

I'm starting to have my doubts on Telas, and something about Korbas is rubbing me the wrong way. I will have more time tonight to look back and figure out what it is that is bothering me about those two.

And for the record, I never had a problem with your case on Shelly. I understood why people wanted to lynch Khell, even if I didn't understand why they couldn't see it for the satire it was.

Cross posted with you. So I almost feel like either Ano is scum or two of you guys are. Only one way to test this.

[Rashan]

I know I know... I've posted two VERY different theories here but this is the way my mind is heading. I tend to be the type to whiteboard out a problem.


To simplify:

Theory 1: Ano manipulated myself and a couple of others into looking at a Korbas and Ampelas lynch. Karosis saw this and mentioned it, therefore he was taken out as a nk so he couldn't bring it up anymore. A LOT has been stirred up due to this theory. Three separate chains have sprung up on Korbas, and Ampelas and POSSIBLY indirectly Rashan.

If Theory 1 is true - Then it is possible that Ando's partner is either D'riss or Telas and is trying to setup an alternate lynch train.

Theory 2: Another killer or killers took out Karosis to make us LOOK at Ando. Because Ando was the first one to bring up theories on killers trying to distance themselves from Shelly. Ando is inno and killers get another inno lynch and nk.

Gah! I like both and see either could be true.

[Korbas]

Anomandaris, on 24 May 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

Korbas, on 24 May 2012 - 01:02 AM, said:

Rashan, on 23 May 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

Korbas, on 23 May 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 23 May 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

Fingers crossed on Tulas, but I'm thinking that this is going to be an inno lynch. You'll normally find killers early on (day 1, 2) hiding in the middle order - so Karosis, Rashan, D'riss, Fener, Thyrllan - these are the people I'd look at right now.

Tulas appears like he's in this same category but actually isn't - if he hadn't roused himself to defend from votes he'd be among the lowest posters.

This is the post that caught my attention. Shelly broke character and started to make sense, names a list of suspects, and gets killed during the night.

When I have some more time I'm gonna reread all of Shelly's suspect's posts.

That's kind of a lame reasoning don't you think? I'm ALWAYS in the middle order. Every game you will find me in THAT ^^ list. That's just another theory to live by. High posters, low posters, middle posters.... pshaw. I only latched onto the hiding in high posting idea because there has been so much talk AGAINST voting for annoying players. Seemed like a great place to hide. If you are going to follow Khell's logic start looking at the dust he stirred as I assure you that was yet another attempt to stir things up.

Lame reasoning is better than no reasoning I guess. I'm just trying to go with any theory because, otherwise, I'd have nothing at all. Hoping something jumps out at me in a better way, but its just not happening. Yet.

The people who are pointing fingers the most today seem to be Anno, Thyr, and you. Not saying that you're scum, but who knows? Not me , so I'm just gonna throw in my towel with you on this one. Maybe it'll start a train, maybe not, but hopefully we will at least get some new info to go on.

Vote Ampelas

Do you mean this vote Korbas? If I am reading the time stamp correctly, this predates both consecutive Rashan votes. This makes you look worse actually, because not only are you switching votes a lot, but so much so you don't even remember their order.

Korbas = Scum

Lynch me if I am wrong.

Edit: Talking to Korbas not Amp

I'm about to hit the sack, but ask and you shall receive. I'm not scum so...


Vote Annomandaris