Anthras, on 16 April 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:
Atrahal, on 16 April 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:
Actually, I never mentioned Merrid at all, much less as one of my points against Alkend... But you have reiterated in the last few posts again and again that "Merrid is HoA". And you have denied many times that you bought his info. So, something is not right.
Only thing that could make sense to me here is either you're lying about buying Merrid's info or you got the info another way - like maybe you're the Finder. And in a game like this, with the Bazaar making the info available to the highest bidder, that is a powerful role that just might end up on the HoA side of the equation. Either way, your lack of concern about Alkend and your certainty of Merrid are combining to produce a decent amount of information about you. Either you're a liar or you know things other people don't.
My reading comprehension is horrible today, apparently. Let me address individual points as I see fit.
Atrahal said:
So, what "slipups" of Alkend's did you mean? I didn't see you actually reference or discuss your thoughts on any of them.
The slip ups that you point out, and discuss with Alkend. I told you I believe they could be innocent slip ups.
You want me to find your post (which I read and formed an opinion on) and debate it point by point? I don't agree with it as a whole, and I left it at that because I don't feel like defending someone who I don't care about in the slightest.
If you want me to be specific, his slip ups about the dreadfather, mystery roles, and alliances. I find those completely innocent, and that could have happened to me if I didn't go back and research the names.
First, yes, you asked me to do that in this same post, so I don't see how you can have a problem with it.
My point is exactly that - he IS innocent of making those mistakes. That's what is so revealing about it in context with the other things he says. He was not trying to manipulate information, he simply made a few mistakes and then said a couple other things that made those mistakes very important.
Antrhas said:
Atrahal said:
Also, let's say hypothetically you were right, and I did mention that - how does that make you less suspicious? If Alkend is, like I'm suggesting, from an alternate Faction with his own VCs, then it would make perfect sense for him to try to get Merrid lynched if he knew or guessed from Merrid's reveal that he was HoA. But because you are so sure Merrid is HoA, you aren't concerned about him and that also reduces your suspicion of Alkend....
I don't know why you make this connection. Are you thinking of someone else who is sure about Merrid being HoA? If so, no hard feelings, I've apparently done that often enough.
I see Merrid's pseudo reveal as a mistake of stress, to reveal as a merchant pretty much guarantees he is revealing as an HoA. I don't see what purpose he would have to do that if he were Alliance.
If Alkend is from an alternate faction he would be trying to get anyone lynched that wouldn't mess with his VC, other than himself of course. So yes, that would make sense. I don't see what Merrid being HoA instead of Alliance has to do with that at all.
The underlined was my point. You've accepted that Merrid is HoA. Here's Alkend's original post:
Alkend, on 15 April 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:
I read that as more that the Dreadfather has the potential to wreak havock on the thieves but is currently allied with them. Which isn't to say that the allience will be permanant through the game. Would make sense since there's another role out there, I'd guess they'd be semi-allied with the Houses of Agreement as well.
Also, if you take a look at the bazaar you'll see that the Riddle of Despair has been marked at how much it's been used, which is all the actions except the last.
I'm saying that with the knowledge he reveals here, I'm predicting he is from a mystery faction and allied with the HoA right now. When talking about his own role, I don't think he's dumb enough to just come out and speculate about himself (in this case, the Dreadfather), but rather speculate about some other unknown element (but which is really his own Role). So he assumes (innocently) that the Dreadfather is a mystery role, and then speculates that the other role is probably allied with HoA. That is where the Merrid connection is.
Merrid -> HoA <- Alkend
Anthras said:
Okay, putting aside annoyance, I just went and took a close look at your case. I take back that I don't agree with it. I think Alkend could very well be a 2nd faction. My apologies, I'm sure I skimmed the long post.
Now, why do we want to lynch this independent instead of a member of the HoA? Do you feel the independant's VC is closer to fruition than the purchasing of two titles?
Atrahal said:
Only thing that could make sense to me here is either you're lying about buying Merrid's info or you got the info another way - like maybe you're the Finder. And in a game like this, with the Bazaar making the info available to the highest bidder, that is a powerful role that just might end up on the HoA side of the equation. Either way, your lack of concern about Alkend and your certainty of Merrid are combining to produce a decent amount of information about you. Either you're a liar or you know things other people don't.
My lack of concern about Alkend has been corrected, thanks to your (for once useful) badgering, and my certainty of Merrid is imagined.
I think you're stretching on the Merrid part, and rightfully angry about your Alkend case not receiving my attention. If you'd be so kind as to respond to my questions after the previous quote (namely the questions on lynch priority), that would be lovely.
First, you now say you kind of agree with my argument, but your actions and suggestions don't really reflect that. I think that having a mystery "role" alive and known, possibly currently allied with the outnumbered HoA but ALSO probably has either additional, separate VC's or has HoA's VCs while allied, is someone worth lynching. Their allegiance could obviously change - Alkend himself suggested it - but that makes him dangerous, too, and he could theoretically reach his VCs without really assisting the HoA anyway. So I think he is the best lynch candidate, hence my vote. Are you saying you want to vote for Merrid (someone we know is from the HoA, like you said? Or Korlat, who you also suspect to be HoA? I'm interested in your response here.
And no one else is voting. I think a timeout today is a bad idea.
edit - added names to quote blocks
This post has been edited by Atrahal: 17 April 2012 - 05:53 PM
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. Merrid, on the other hand, revealed his role intentionally. When a player acts with intent like that, that is when you have to question whether he's telling the truth.
