[Tiamatha]

Okay looks like there is finally some discussion on treating this like a game of mafia. Will all of peoples efforts going into figuring out the best path for each character and reaquainting yourself with all the various mechanics I don't think we actually have time to get enough discussion to determine the best lynch candidate.

There also has been talk of it also being a good idea not to lynch today either. I'm actually leaning this way myself. With so little information out there other than what people may or may not want on the market but nothing that anyone can really use to nail down someones loyalties we might be faced with a situation where the game doens't truly get started until the next day.

The ultimate goal is to get 5 of the titles for your faction. That is 150,000.00 dinari needed to accomplish this goal. That is a boat load of cash. WIth people also focusing on personal upgrades and such it might be a while before we start seeing these titles disapearing.

[Tiamatha]

By my count we only have less than 3 hours left in the day.

[Kessobahn]

Tiamatha, on 12 April 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 12 April 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

Gold, Powder and wood stolen.


I'd say they couldn't be picked otherwise you'd think the more expensive stuff would be taken like monument or worship.

Not necessarily. These things might fuel actions and/or be used for upgrades or buildings.

I suppose we'll see as the days go on. I don't see the market slowing down as this is the main aim for this game.

[Kessobahn]

Tiamatha, on 12 April 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

Okay looks like there is finally some discussion on treating this like a game of mafia. Will all of peoples efforts going into figuring out the best path for each character and reaquainting yourself with all the various mechanics I don't think we actually have time to get enough discussion to determine the best lynch candidate.

There also has been talk of it also being a good idea not to lynch today either. I'm actually leaning this way myself. With so little information out there other than what people may or may not want on the market but nothing that anyone can really use to nail down someones loyalties we might be faced with a situation where the game doens't truly get started until the next day.

The ultimate goal is to get 5 of the titles for your faction. That is 150,000.00 dinari needed to accomplish this goal. That is a boat load of cash. WIth people also focusing on personal upgrades and such it might be a while before we start seeing these titles disapearing.

I agree with you here. I think it'll take a lot of time to accrue enough dinari to buy one title let alone two, three or four etc. Who would a no lynch benefit the most though?

[Korlat]

Anthras, on 12 April 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Korlat, on 12 April 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

Anthras, on 12 April 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

Wait a second. Did you just ask him to out himself on a good desire on thread? Your ideas are a bit wild for my tastes.

On top of that, you need a MONUMENT

That doesn't build anything in the build list, so it's probably for some kind of ability.

Outing yourself.

Meh, information is not always meant to be hoarded and kept to yourself. I don't think it's a particularly big deal for me to reveal that I need a Monument for one of my upgrades. Whoever is currently trying to sell the monument will perhaps be more inclined to price his good such that I can afford it if he knows that he might have a buyer.

Marketplaces are more efficient for everyone involved the more information is available. Keeping your desires hidden has its place, but it's not like anyone is going to try to get you killed because you need wood for something, is it?

Hm. Okay, I see where you're coming from.

And in any case, if you'd prefer to keep your needs anonymous you can always use contracts to get what you want.

[Anthras]

Kessobahn, on 12 April 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

I agree with you here. I think it'll take a lot of time to accrue enough dinari to buy one title let alone two, three or four etc. Who would a no lynch benefit the most though?

I think a no lynch benefits whichever faction has the more powerful night (or battle or dusk) actions.

The house of agreements were merchants last game, but I bet they have a mage or summoner type on their team to make up for the assassin or general type on the nepeth/beggars/vulture

[Tiamatha]

I see it slowing down as people will become more focused on actually playing the game and not checking on the bazaar so frequently if for nothing else. Or if people are using what they get on the bazaar to build things to provide them with what they need without having to trade for them. Though that is very unlikely as they will proabably need to spend a lot of money to accomplish this.

[Tiamatha]

I'm not advocating not lynching at all. I just don't feel like we've engaged each other enough on this first day what with trying to figure the game out taking up most of peoples time. Plus this is a Tapper game and from past experience it's not necessarily a good idea to lynch day one as he suggested in one of his Path-Shaper posts in this game.

As for who not lynching will benefit, I think that both sides will probably be fairly evenly matched as much as he can with all of the abilites that he has out there. You have to realize that the battle and assasination roles have about a 50% shot at hitting their own team member too at this point so those people might not be as willing to go out an kill willy nilly.

[Atrahal]

Kessobahn, on 12 April 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

Stolen goods, has anyone else seen that yet? I wonder how often this will happen. It'd probably make people hesitant to put anything of high quality/value in the bazaar in case it gets taken away.

The scene posted by P-S a few posts above seems pretty clear that there was "wide-spread" theft in the Bazaar. However, what's more interesting to me is the items that were stolen... 1 Wood ($2k), 1 Powder ($3.5k), 1 Gold ($5k). Pricey, but not the most expensive items out there. If the theft was random and the player is unable to choose which goods to steal, then speculating here is pointless. However, if we assume they were chosen deliberately (maybe by some item # limit, maybe a denari value limit, or both), then why those items? Powder especially is odd to me. From the publicly available production buildings, Powder is only used in one:

Enchanter
Production Cost: 5 Marble, 1 Leather, 1 Sandstone, 2 Furniture, 2 Magic, 2 Glass, 1 Essence, 1 Powder, 1 Artefact, 6000 dinari
1 Jewelry + 1 Magic → 1 Artefact

It's also used to activate the ability of the Hekim-Bashi title, but I doubt anyone has cash right now to scoop up any titles. Also something interesting - shortly after Jewelry was purchased from the Bazaar, an Artifact was listed... and actually because I can't watch the Bazaar the whole time, it's hard to say what was bought or sold first, but it is interesting that gold is used to make Furniture - required of the "Enchanter" building; there's also this building:

Goldsmith
Production cost: 3 Marble, 3 Sandstone, 2 Metal, 1 Fire, 1 Silk, 1 Gemstone, 7500 dinari.
Dusk only: 3 Metal → 1 Gold
Dusk only: 1 Gold → 1 Jewelry

So the gold could have been used to create jewelry, which was then either listed on the Bazaar or used to make an Artefact, also listed. Just looking at production good costs and the Bazaar, the only items not purchased that could be used towards these buildings are Marble (listed now though), and Leather (but someone was desperate enough to make a contract to get 2 Livestock on the the Bazaar, which can be converted into 1 Leather by the Tannery).

So a lot of that is just speculation and Bazaar/production analysis, but if the person stealing from the Bazaar had a choice in the items stolen, it looks to be either a Summoner role (which is kind of odd, given the "stealing" from the Bazaar, but possible - also, the Powder and related items from using it are all Magic/Essence related), or an ability that would use those items (which could be anything, ability costs are a mystery except to those who have them), or it's just a cash grab to make money on the Bazaar.

But yeah, just looking at the Bazaar, there have been some interesting developments in the last 12 hours.

[Atrahal]

Wow, how did that crosspost happen...massive.

edit - guess I didn't refresh or something...awesome.

This post has been edited by Atrahal: 12 April 2012 - 04:06 PM

[Path-Shaper]

I R here again!

[Atrahal]

Tiamatha, on 12 April 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

I'm not advocating not lynching at all. I just don't feel like we've engaged each other enough on this first day what with trying to figure the game out taking up most of peoples time. Plus this is a Tapper game and from past experience it's not necessarily a good idea to lynch day one as he suggested in one of his Path-Shaper posts in this game.

As for who not lynching will benefit, I think that both sides will probably be fairly evenly matched as much as he can with all of the abilites that he has out there. You have to realize that the battle and assasination roles have about a 50% shot at hitting their own team member too at this point so those people might not be as willing to go out an kill willy nilly.

Just responding here because this was the most recent post about this idea....from the last game, we saw that the Nepeth had almost exclusively battle-type abilities, which are just as effective as a typical "NK", depending on the target; obviously there's also at least one assassin. But the Nepeth are part of a 3-faction alliance against the House of Agreements, so it makes no sense at all to assume the Nepeth have a large number of players, especially if they are structured like they were last game. So 50% shot at hitting a "team member" assumes evenly balanced numbers across a 3-faction vs. 1-faction setup, plus "mystery" factions mentioned in the first post....debatable. Although it's definitely possible to hit your own teammate with a battle or assassination action, my guess is that people with those abilities will try to use them, since as the number of players diminishes, the odds of them hitting their own teammates will probably increase. Also, with the assassination contract out there, whoever made it must not be that worried about hitting a teammate - which means they could be on a "mystery" faction or just not overly concerned about the 3 vs. 1 setup. This is especially true if we decide not to lynch.

And on the subject of lynching, actually, I think the Korlat vote is an interesting one that I might be willing to go with. However, I think someone already said this, but people who are seriously low-posting are also prime targets. It doesn't matter if a) they have RL issues and can't post or they aren't posting because they are doing a lot of work behind the scenes and on the Bazaar. Option B seems dangerous to me. And although yes, we always have the possibility of hitting a teammate, even a single CF could give a lot of insight into other players' interactions.

So, I don't know, but I don't think we have a lot of time left, which would mean speed lynching someone, and that's not often a good idea, even when it's still Day 1. So I'm hesitant to lynch but there will definitely be benefits from reducing player numbers and seeing a CF. So, decision time is coming.

[Anthras]

Honestly, I don't think Tapper wants us to lynch today.

So we shouldn't. Mod knows best.

[Galayn Lord]

Korlat, on 12 April 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Alright, looks like I've drawn a vote from GL. Sounds like I've got it for being vocal. Well I guess the game has to start somewhere, but attacking someone for being talkative seems counterproductive if you're looking to try and get discussion going and figure out people's loyalties .

Admittedly, I did kind of jump on Omtose when he was answering (or more accurately sidestepping ) the questions I asked him, which isn't exactly going to encourage people to talk to me. But I've been trying to poke a little bit within the confines of the bazaar discussion to start the ball rolling. Problem is, in faction games people get voted off once there is no mystery about which team you're on any more, so there's little incentive to be open on thread and risk revealing your alignment.

You've got it for only talking about the market and nothing else. Every post of you is about the bazaar somehow. That you talk so more than others just makes you come to mind more easily.
I could have attacked a low poster, sure, but I doubt I would have learned anything more about someone like Korabas or Merrid. People would just have agreed that low-posters are annoying.

My vote reached it's main goal though, as far as I'm concerned. It reminded people that there is more they can do than think about buying and selling stuff.

[Atrahal]

Anthras, on 12 April 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

Honestly, I don't think Tapper wants us to lynch today.

So we shouldn't. Mod knows best.

Kind of weird logic. I think he was saying more that lynching is no longer a daily imperative like it usually is in Mafia. That doesn't mean we SHOULDN'T lynch, only that we shouldn't feel the same pressure to lynch . I think there's a distinction. Any reason you don't want Korlat speed lynched today? Because that's what I'm reading between the lines.

[Galayn Lord]

Tiamatha, on 12 April 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

Galayn Lord, on 12 April 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

Kessobahn, on 12 April 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

Stolen goods, has anyone else seen that yet? I wonder how often this will happen. It'd probably make people hesitant to put anything of high quality/value in the bazaar in case it gets taken away.

I doubt it will happen to often, otherwise the whole bazaar would stop working properly.

Spoken like someone who doesn't want people to be afraid to put stuff up for sale.

Thief!!!

Or I'm just interested in buying and selling stuff. Like I'm sure we all are or can you be productive without things purchased on the bazaar?

[Anthras]

I drew the same conclusion; that we shouldn't feel the same pressure. There isn't enough time to lynch effectively or watch a train build.

If we speed lynch, it's hard to analyze the train because people can claim they just voted because we needed a lynch. I think it's better to wait until tomorrow.

That said, I have no feeling in either direction for Korlat.

[Atrahal]

Galayn Lord, on 12 April 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Korlat, on 12 April 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Alright, looks like I've drawn a vote from GL. Sounds like I've got it for being vocal. Well I guess the game has to start somewhere, but attacking someone for being talkative seems counterproductive if you're looking to try and get discussion going and figure out people's loyalties .

Admittedly, I did kind of jump on Omtose when he was answering (or more accurately sidestepping ) the questions I asked him, which isn't exactly going to encourage people to talk to me. But I've been trying to poke a little bit within the confines of the bazaar discussion to start the ball rolling. Problem is, in faction games people get voted off once there is no mystery about which team you're on any more, so there's little incentive to be open on thread and risk revealing your alignment.

You've got it for only talking about the market and nothing else. Every post of you is about the bazaar somehow. That you talk so more than others just makes you come to mind more easily.
I could have attacked a low poster, sure, but I doubt I would have learned anything more about someone like Korabas or Merrid. People would just have agreed that low-posters are annoying.

My vote reached it's main goal though, as far as I'm concerned. It reminded people that there is more they can do than think about buying and selling stuff.

I think your points are valid, except about the low-posters. Going into this game, everyone was fairly aware that you were going to need ample time to participate in order for the game to work. So low-posting is kind of frowned upon more than usual, IMO. Either RL stuff came up at the last minute, or they are deliberately low-posting to avoid attention; whether that's due to their role or their behind-the-scenes production/upgrades/buying/selling, it probably isn't good.

Kara - 3
Alkend - 3
Okaros - 2
Merrid - 2
Korabas - 1

That seems pretty ridiculous for Day 1 of a game that everyone knew was going to be time-intensive and there was very little of the usual Day 1 BS that gets thrown around - a lot actually happened, shit was bought and sold and even stolen from the Bazaar. So I don't like seeing 5 out of 13 players basically not participating at all.

[Anthras]

Give people a day to settle in. Probably just getting a hold on the mechanics, ya know?

[Atrahal]

Anthras, on 12 April 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

I drew the same conclusion; that we shouldn't feel the same pressure. There isn't enough time to lynch effectively or watch a train build.

If we speed lynch, it's hard to analyze the train because people can claim they just voted because we needed a lynch. I think it's better to wait until tomorrow.

That said, I have no feeling in either direction for Korlat.

Ok. Fair response, and I agree about speed lynching (P-S, vote/time update?). But it would help to have some more people posting on thread, like the 5 I just mentioned. We need CFs just as badly as we do in any other game, except it costs us more to get them now, which is why lynching is optional and not imperative. But if we don't lynch and then see 2 or 3 people die from battle/assassination/whatever tonight, this new concept of waiting to lynch is going to disappear quickly, I think.