[Atrahal]

 Okaros, on 15 March 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

Mockra, that's a great summary.

No, it isn't.

Vote Mockra

For repeating almost exactly the analysis of the lynch train which Karosis made just before he was lynched, down to exactly who he found the most suspicious, and then passing it off as his own analysis.

I'm also happy to vote Tennes for the stupidity/scumminess of the Silanah reasoning for a vote on Karosis, as no one seems willing to lay their cads on the table regarding Rashan, despite quite a few of you going 'ooh, that's another suspicious thing you've done, Rashan.'

[Olar Ethil]

 Atrahal, on 15 March 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

 Okaros, on 15 March 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

Mockra, that's a great summary.

No, it isn't.

Vote Mockra

For repeating almost exactly the analysis of the lynch train which Karosis made just before he was lynched, down to exactly who he found the most suspicious, and then passing it off as his own analysis.

I'm also happy to vote Tennes for the stupidity/scumminess of the Silanah reasoning for a vote on Karosis, as no one seems willing to lay their cads on the table regarding Rashan, despite quite a few of you going 'ooh, that's another suspicious thing you've done, Rashan.'

Yes, all that has really been added to what Karosis said are the quotes there.

I agree that Tennes comes across quite suspicious there and the 'following sil, he's innocent' thing could be a very clumsy attempt by scum to appear innocent, either way it is pretty lazy. I understand time constraints but it doesn't sit well.

Rashan I was feeling was less scummy again, maybe because Karosis felt more so at that point, though reading over his last few posts I was really impressed he didn't have a fit and was helpful to town and his thought son the possible recruiting mechanic were interesting, though personally I think it might be impractical. The better you than me comment really struck me as scummy though. While most players understand the sentiment town players are supposed to play as a collective to help each other and that kind of attitude is usually counter-productive and can be damaging in the long run. Checking it against Karosis' exit when it became inevitable it is quite a contrast.

[Mockra]

Not at all, I went and got all the vote posts, put them together and wrote what I thought thank you very much. If you find the analysis similiar thats because there's not much else to say about it.
Lets go through it then and see what I wrote and what Karosis wrote?

He said: First vote, happened much earlier than the others. His only reasoning seems to be on the back of vote changing, of which the first two were jokes. Possibly the cause of that fallacy I was talking about earlier.
I said: First up is D'riss who I guess made the original case. I have no issue with this vote or the case really, it was Day 1 seemed reasonable.
I think that a little different, but how would you describe it?

Second vote
He said: Okaros - OMGUS vote. No reasoning other than OMGUS (which is bad reasoning, but understandable).
I said: Ok second up is Okaros who got in a vaguely OMGUS fight with Karosis.
Okaros even said it was almost OMGUS in his vote. How would you put it?

Third vote
He said: OMGUS vote with some dodgy reasoning attached. Seems to have got the idea that you have to build up Day 1 cases past the level they objectively deserve because there's nothing else to go on, but gets annoyed when it is done to him.
I said: Next up is Kalse, who had similiar reasons to D'riss and I guess Okaros to put on vote number 3.
Go take a look at his vote post, again what differnce from the analysis would you be expecting? He basically agreed with D'riss and Okaros and voted accordingly.

Fourth vote
He said: Claims I will be a distraction. This precipitated the landslide...makes me suspicious.
I said: Ok now things start to get interesting. Barghast with his vote which is the 4th vote and starting the train up.
And then: Not sure about Barghast as well. To me his vote seemed similiar in reason to the others, but I felt it vaguely forced, especially after Fener's lynch not going anywhere. Although maybe I just read it worse from his
RP way of doing it.
I like to think its different there and I wrote why I found it slightly scummy. So I'd say thats different.

Fifth vote Emurlahn
He said: Most likely lynch, doesn't have any reasoning. Reprehensible, faintly scummy.
I said: Then Emurlahn pops on to put vote number 5 on.

I didnt' mention it be be scummy, and didn't find it so. Again we differ.


Sixth vote was Silanah.
He said: Beyond reproach as emperor.
I said : Then Silanah and pretty much the train is inevitable at this point with time running out.
Well its hard to analysis on the CI, I dunno if that differs or not.


Seventh vote was Tennes:
He said:Claims I was in his top 3...don't have time to go and check whether he actually listed those three anywhere. Uses Silanah's vote as a reason, which is very flawed.
I said: Then there was Tennes which is the most unconvincing of the votes to me.

And I went to explain why I find it vaguely scummy later on. I think that differs a little or at least I explained why I found it vageuly scummy which is different from him calling it flawed.


Eigth vote which was Olar Ethil:
He said: - Says maybe Tellan is trying to distract from me, which seems odd since I'm almost certainly trying to draw attention to myself. Feels faintly OMGUS.
I said didn't really mention him as it was a forgone conclusion at this point. So again we differ.

Finally

Ninth vote:
He said: Appears very confused, since he was self voting just prior. Doesn't find me to be a good target, but wants a lynch. Reasonable sentiments, he feels cleaner with this than a lot of the other votes (but maybe that's just 'cause he's defending me...would have to do a fuller readthrough to make a good determination about his guilt).

I said: Then Korvalain after throwing his toys out of his cot then and voting for himself switched over as well.

Not sure if that one differs or not.


The last two were the hammer votes where there was no real choices so I didn't bother with them.


But I tell you what, why don't you go back and do an analysis and see how wildly different it is from mine, or Karosis? How else would you describe some of those votes?
Anyway I think they were different enough and I provided reasons as such as I could as to my thoughts.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2
29 hours and 25 minutes are left in the day.

20 players are left alive:
Atrahal, Barghast, D’riss, Emurlahn, Fener, Gamelon, Kalse, Korvalain, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Omtose, Olar Ethil, Rashan, Ruse Serc, Silanah, Sorrit, Tellan, Tennes

1 vote Mockra: Atrahal

Players not voting: Barghast, D’riss, Emurlahn, Fener, Gamelon, Kalse, Korvalain, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Omtose, Olar Ethil, Rashan, Ruse Serc, Silanah, Sorrit, Tellan, Tennes

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 15 March 2012 - 11:11 AM

[Atrahal]

Thanks for pointing out the accuracy of my statement, Mockra - I gave a little chuckle at your "Erm, I like to think that's different - please mister!". I never said that I'd expect something completely different...well, actually I would. If you're going to do an analysis on something which has already had one, then there should be a new reason for it, or at least pointing out the exceptions where you differ and concentrating on those. There's no point in essentially rehashing what someone else has already said and adding the vote quotes to it. Why not just say you generally agree with it and save us all the trouble? Oh wait, it's because you wanted it to look more useful and original than it actually was.


Edit: Gave a bit more detail.

This post has been edited by Atrahal: 15 March 2012 - 11:14 AM

[Mockra]

Anyway I'm out of here for 12 or so hours, might be able to make it on again after dinner but I doubt it.

[Serc]

 Barghast, on 15 March 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

 Gamelon, on 15 March 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

Right, well in that case I must be off. See you later

well, NOT lynching Karosis now leaves us open for all kinds of WIFOM games in teh next few days--he primed himself for recruitment with that "reveal" of his

So do you think that his theory about recruitment being aligned by Ministry offices is correct? I have a hard time believing that, myself.

[Rashan]

No kills. Looks like I was wrong.

 Tennes, on 15 March 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

 Rashan, on 14 March 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

Train sure is building fast on Karosis. Not sure I like that. Better him than me, though.

This is another one for you Rashan. Anthras was pinging our radar last game near enough all game and when we finally lynched him he turned out to be scum. Statements like this jump out at me.

This will be the third time I answer this. You're repetitive even in your nonsense, and your mother doesn't like you.

[Tennes]

 Rashan, on 15 March 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

No kills. Looks like I was wrong.

 Tennes, on 15 March 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

 Rashan, on 14 March 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

Train sure is building fast on Karosis. Not sure I like that. Better him than me, though.

This is another one for you Rashan. Anthras was pinging our radar last game near enough all game and when we finally lynched him he turned out to be scum. Statements like this jump out at me.

This will be the third time I answer this. You're repetitive even in your nonsense, and your mother doesn't like you.

I was just thinking that paired killers would be a bit much. However, he might have included cult hunters in this game, they perform a night action like a find and will find out if the person is cult or not. I think he would have included more than one.

[Rashan]

I suppose that could be. It feels off that there were no kills. Maybe someone hit a BP?

[Ruse]

Just about to start playing and i have a family emergency pop up.
I need to drive 3 hours 2 ways now.
sorry about the lack of play from my part, but i will get stuck in tomorrow morn.

[Silanah]

Psst. Ruse, you're nekkid

[Tennes]

 Rashan, on 15 March 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

I suppose that could be. It feels off that there were no kills. Maybe someone hit a BP?

maybe swap between a kill and a find?

[Silanah]

Emeperor Silanah is sad... No one wants to speak with him.

[Silanah]

Emeperor Silanah is sad... No one wants to speak with him.

[Tennes]

 Silanah, on 15 March 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

Emeperor Silanah is sad... No one wants to speak with him.

I'm around, working but around and will reply when I can. I cannot put the time in at the moment to build a case, i'd like your thoughts on Atrahal

[Silanah]

Atrahal thoughts incoming in a huge multiquoted post.

[D'riss]

Just woke up and read through the last couple of pages to catch up. Sorry ST. I'm also surprised by the lack of night kills.
So just on my first glance at these last couple pages and what I remember yesterday, the Tennes jump onto the train does look a little odd and certainly helped to get the momentum to pick up. I don't remember seeing much playing out of Barghast. I feel like we are just seeing him enough to show he's out there, but no real content. I haven't decided whether I have changed my mind on Rashan or not. His "anyone but me" attitude feels a little scummy. So give me a couple hours to reread and take notes and I will post more in depth thoughts.

[Silanah]

Now I have my Multiquotes ready to go
1. 1st post and already a case? Seems a bit too eager to seem like a major contributor. (Whether he is or not is not the point, just whether he seems like he wants to be)

 Atrahal, on 13 March 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

Hail the Anti-Steve!!!!


Now:

 Rashan, on 13 March 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

Steve? No, Silanah is Go-Kashiwabara, our Emperor.

I highly doubt my fellow Ministers would be so ignorant as all previous posters seem. Too many to vote now, I will sulk in my own despair.

What manner of recruiter will attempt to bribe us, I wonder. Certainly nothing civil so far.

 Rashan, on 13 March 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

I, for one, consider it interesting that there may be more than one lowly briber. A single entity taking advantage of our temporary lack of funds does not surprise me, but multiple? Perhaps we will be able to play them against each other.

As someone in the newb game said - "He who smelt it, dealt it."


Vote Rashan

The much trodden ground of the "Fight Goddamn You!" Where honestly if you think you are going to be lynched day one you would be pretty demoralized and would probably post something about it before you tried to help town on your way out (at least what seems like your way out.

 Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

 Rashan, on 13 March 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

:yawn:

I can already tell I'm going to be lynched today, unless someone does something crazy.

If you are scum, pathetic attempt. If you are town, then fight goddamn you! Remember you're part of a team and if you're lynched, it hurts the whole team and not just your lazy ass. Yes, even on day 1. I would prefer to think you're silly scum - you do want to earn my respect don't you?

If you want to piss people off, the most widely used and foolproof method is "translating" their statements and twisting them into something else. At least say that is what you interpreted not what it actually means

 Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

 Okaros, on 14 March 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

Geez, it's no wonder people are turning up to check in and then leaving again. We're not even halfway through day one and already people are getting jumped on!

On top of that, between Karosis and Atrahal no one can win. If you defend yourself too much that is suspicious, but if you don't defend yourself at all you're also suspicious!

Day one cases are a crapshoot, and I don't blame Rashan for his resignation. It's pretty much impossible to against a day one case because anything you do or say will be micro-analysed. Sure, scum can slip up on day one as much as any other day, but it takes the context of the following days to find anything useful.

So with that, I am going to head off to work on my kickass Noh Dancing. I'll be back in time to vote. Try not to get your collective knickers twisted too much.

Translation: "I'll criticise other people's attempts to highlight things, but I won't bother to actually contribute anything myself. In fact, I'm not sure why I even posted on day 1. I'll vote for whoever is going to get lynched at the end of the day, because frankly I can't be bothered about giving a shit today."

Those colors were the worst part of the reread. Also, yeah, you were just repeating each others arguments, getting higher post counts but going nowhere, making it seem at a glance like you have contributed more than you actually have.

 Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

Tellan versus Atrahal

Atrahal: Tellan might be defending Rashan a little
Tellan: I'm not defending Rashan, Rashan's a saint who can't do no wrong!
Atrahal: You seem a little touchy, Tellan, I'm keeping my eyes on you
Tellan: No, I'm keeping my eyes on you! You're scummy, your posts are scummy.
Atrahal: Well, your responses to my responses are scummy!
Tellan: You're not answering my questions!
Atrahal: You're ignoring my responses!
Tellan: You smell!
Atrahal: No, you smell!


Having read over our conversations, consider the above my acknowledgement that Tellan and I are simply repeating each other's accusations back at each other

Don't fish Atrahal.

 Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

 Silanah, on 14 March 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

According to the decree of PS, I cannot answer that question.

Interesting! Do your secret abilities make you rub your hands in glee?

Reveal the maths you used or I will have no faith in your cases from now on.

 Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

 Barghast, on 14 March 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

 Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

So my suspects at the moment, as well as Rashan (duh), are Omtose, because of his questioning of one of Korvalain's posts which I found strange (and which Tellan also took umbrage over ). It struck me as someone trying too hard to think as a townie and pointing out something as signalling which would only make sense if the person doing it (Korv in this case) was in fact a townie himself. Yeah, I know this is a mega-stretch at the moment but I plead day 1.

My other suspects, according to a mathematical formula for finding scum which I have devised, are Kalse and D'riss. No case, no post analysis, no gut feeling, just pure and simple maths. Who can argue against the logic of mathematics eh?

Frankly, it is impossible, untill said maths are presented for public scrutiny.

Ah, I am afraid that I cannot. Such a presentation would render the formula open to corruption, once the scum knew how to get out of being identified by said formula. Then I would have to devise a whole new one

 Kalse, on 14 March 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

Regarding Atrahal, I am not seeing the case on him really, though his support of the above mentioned Karosis is disturbing. (see below). How you can exclude 2 people from the game this early is odd to me. You exclude Fener from your possible votes today, but he has brought nothing to the table. How can you have any read on him. Know more than some of us?

I exclude Fener and Karosis for now, not forever. With about ten other options on the table, some have to be excluded if we're going to get anywhere, no? You're right that Fener has brought nothing, but the people voting for him (I think it's actually down to just one now) did not do so on the grounds of suspicious low posting either. They did it because it's Fener. As for Karosis, I gave what I consider a pretty sensible reason why I exclude voting for him at this present point.

Don't confuse that with me saying that I consider some of Karosis' play helpful, however. In fact, I would venture that your post refuting his case on you and turning his own play style back on him is the best post of the game so far. Congrats

[Tennes]

In a lot of my notes so far Atrahal has been the aggressor, attacking quite a few people. You see this first with Rashan on post number 68. Number 142 he agrees with Karosis about Korvalian and then has a pissing match with tellan. I haven't went further than this in my notes yet but I think Atrahal is more than likely town, I cannot see scum being that "out there". I asked you about him because something seemed off about him but over a re read i'm not sure at all. I am going to have a look through and see what I can find



edit, spelling

This post has been edited by Tennes: 15 March 2012 - 03:37 PM