[Kalse]

heh, with the exception of Rashan, our lists are the same except we swapped each other.


I think it's more difficult to take you approach and analyze his posts because he was essentially a symp. Also, we really have no idea which day he was recruited.

I really find it hard to believe Rashan was his master after starting the train, failing to remove his vote, and going after him so doggedly on day 3. Other than that, I agree with your list. (with the exception of my name of course)

[Korvalain]

Path-Shaper, on 22 March 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

It is Day 5.

There are 11 hours and 56 minutes remaining.

15 players are left alive:
Barghast, D'riss, Gamelon, Kalse, Korvalain, Mockra, Okaros, Olar Ethil, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Serc, Silanah, Tellan, Tennes


8 votes to lynch, 7 to go to night.

1 vote Ruse: Barghast
1 vote Kalse: Tennes
1 vote Olar Ethil: Kalse

Players not voting: D'riss, Gamelon, Korvalain, Mockra, Okaros, Olar Ethil, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Serc, Silanah, Tellan

What?

I see that Rashan voted for Ruse not Barghast.

This looks like a mistake by PS.

Though I still stand by what I said that Serc if following Barghast vote on Ruse but Rashan was the one who actually voted for Ruse.

[Korvalain]

Kalse, on 22 March 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

heh, with the exception of Rashan, our lists are the same except we swapped each other.


I think it's more difficult to take you approach and analyze his posts because he was essentially a symp. Also, we really have no idea which day he was recruited.

I really find it hard to believe Rashan was his master after starting the train, failing to remove his vote, and going after him so doggedly on day 3. Other than that, I agree with your list. (with the exception of my name of course)

That is why I am focusing on the three players that we have in common and with the latest vote by Serc I'm now convinced that Barghast is the recruiter.

[Kalse]

wow, X-post

Why did you take Ruse off your list? Also, you think that Serc was recruited last night by Barghy? Interesting. It's possible of course. He was pretty much CI yesterday and would likely draw little heat today, making him a good recruit target. ( yeah yeah WIFOM)

[Korvalain]

Even if it looks like PS got the vote count wrong.

[Korvalain]

Kalse, on 22 March 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

wow, X-post

Why did you take Ruse off your list? Also, you think that Serc was recruited last night by Barghy? Interesting. It's possible of course. He was pretty much CI yesterday and would likely draw little heat today, making him a good recruit target. ( yeah yeah WIFOM)

Becase Atrahal wanted to lynch him.

[Korvalain]

Kalse, on 22 March 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

wow, X-post

Why did you take Ruse off your list? Also, you think that Serc was recruited last night by Barghy? Interesting. It's possible of course. He was pretty much CI yesterday and would likely draw little heat today, making him a good recruit target. ( yeah yeah WIFOM)

Wait if you had ruse on your list then I'm probably wrong about Serc and Barghast. For some reason I just focused on the three we had in common and didn't realize that you included Ruse in your list.

Remove vote.

[Kalse]

I am not feeling a barghy lynch as mush as an OE lynch. But really, any one one my short list I would be happy voting off. I have to go away for about 6 hrs. i'll come back and make my final vote. (day times out at 3 am and I will be fast asleep come deadline) Hopefully we'll have got some more participation.

[Tellan]

Some interaction here.

Olar Ethil, on 21 March 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 21 March 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

Olar Ethil, on 21 March 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

I still am not seeing the D'riss thing, even after a quick re-read he does not stand out as inherently more scummy than most players and the origional link made was to a player who cf'd as town, and there have been a few connections since. It just seems strange.

For me, the D'riss suspicion stems from his reaction to Korvalain's post where Korv identifies three people (Tennes, Gamelon, Ruse) as probably being a recruiter. D'riss' reaction made me think he was recruited by one of those three. Since then, events have led me to conclude it's Tennes. In an effort to not be just obsessed with that, especially if I'm the only one who felt that way, my other big suspicion rests on Omtose, a suspicion which I had since day 1 and has done nothing but grow since.

I agree with your reaction to Omtose, he has gone very quiet again but at the end of the last day his comments struck me as really off, also, he put forth 'rashan wasn't the significant vote ont he emur swing' which made me think he is possibly connected in some way to Rashan, maybe rashan is his recruit or his recruiter, though Rashan, if he is an actual recruiter, has played this weird, though I still don't think it is outside the realms of possibility.

A couple of days back he said he was watching a couple of people in particular for changes in posting style/attitude and yet he has not built cases or made any passing mention of these suspicions since.

Here is interesting. OE has been going after Omtose for a while. Looking at Atrahal's posts I don't really see that much to back up his claim that he's found him suspicious for ages. A bit back he mentions he gets annoyed at Omtose's drive-by vote. Ofc, this occurs shortly after OE claims that he thinks omtose is at least a recruit. Page 26 is the earliest I can find him really going for him (mentions him or mockra as his choices). Course that doesn't look so great in the light of this earlier post:

Olar Ethil, on 20 March 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

Omtose, on 20 March 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

The math in my head thinks there is four scum in each team now. That's half the players. But I'm thinking one team leader went hunting last night instead of recruiting.

This seems a bit like scaremongering omtose, we don't know what kind of recruiting conditions are in play, actually, I was unaware we even knew how many scum teams there are.


I'm going to read over some of Sorrit's interactions and have a closer look at Mockra, just looking over what Tennes has posted makes me uneasy, i've had almost an aversion to Mockra so far, i've never felt particularly good about him but never really looked very closely for some reason. He fits into the mould that people have said they are interested in and though he has been mentioned on a few occasions is generally never very greatly looked at or prodded.

Some subtle atrahal defense:

Olar Ethil, on 21 March 2012 - 02:12 AM, said:

Tellan, on 21 March 2012 - 02:02 AM, said:

Ok, looking back, I don't like the super speedy Emur lynch.

In particular, Atrahals role in it.

Atrahal, on 16 March 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

Omtose, on 16 March 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

Rashan, on 16 March 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

Not emo

I'd like to play, but I fucked up, and I'd prefer if we got my inevitable attention out of the way tonight so we don't waste time with it tomorrow.

I still think it was a good lynch, easily recruit-able and whatnot, but the way I swung the vote is suspicious even to me, so that's my reasoning here.

I think you pushed the lynch before the liosan train had any steam.

Atharal swung it IMO

Lol, I knew you'd say that. Let's have a look at what I said, shall we?

Atrahal, on 16 March 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 16 March 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

Tell you what. I'll be here till the very end, so:

Remove Vote

Vote Emurlahn

If the votes on Emur don't climb, I'll switch back to Liosan with enough time to still lynch him.

That's what I said when I voted. After that, I didn't say anything at all about others switching their votes.

The reason I changed my vote was because D'riss' "I find Emur totally un-suspicious" comment after Rashan had pointed out a potential link made me uneasy.

In fact, I would argue that the real swinger was Silanah. Seeing our Emperor jump on made a lot of people more confident about it, I would wager.

These posts make me feel like Atrahal had already planned ahead, having a defence ready when making his original post.

I also don't like that he argues that Sil swings the train. It's a weak argument in the first place (CI =/= infallible) and arguing it serves the purpose of essentially saying that no-one looks scummy for swinging the train/there's no point looking at it.

While normally i'd be inclined to agree here I actually think Sil's vote did influence the switch in this case. Nobody was very certain on either player, there was a lack of confidence over the chances of either of them being scum, then one player seems so certain amidst the confusion, that is, Rashan and town thinks, well, does he know something? Is he possibly roled?And starts to doubt itself more, in that case, seeing sil voting for one option over the other probably did influence people.

The vote was placed at quite a crucial moment though, i'll grant. I think there was a certain lack of force behind it. In saying that, the whole d'riss thing still is confusing me, since he seems to be getting linked to pretty much everyone on the emur case though I saw it more as everyone jumping at shadows in amongst the general uncertainty.

Doesn't think Atrahal is scummy:

Olar Ethil, on 16 March 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

I am off to sleep, I have a really busy day ahead tomorrow but I will try to get time to keep up and post.

I should be back before timeout though.

At the moment there seems to be no great consensus.

Out of the middlish posters the name that springs to mind when I think of suspicious or possible scum is Mockra but this is more based on gut, the other player is Liosan and partly that might have to do with his play style but once I have divined the meanings of his posts they feel like a lot of work for very little, they seem to consist more of summaries than fresh points and maybe it is the manner of the posts but it does not feel like he is offering alternatives for the things he says he dislikes, which he seems to be doing a lot of. If you are going to tell people they are getting it wrong offer an alternative or at least venture more than your disagreement.

Korv i'm not massively suspicious of at the moment, I think he was genuinely feeling frustrated but to say anymore about that would maybe be getting a little meta but I don't get a strong vibe from him or feel more than normal levels of suspicion there.

I still think some of Rashan's comments come across as scummy, the one just before the inevitable Karosis lynch stands out in my mind. Tellan hasn't been around a great deal either the last day, seems to have gone quiet.

As for Atrahal who has occasioned quite a bit of comment I don't find there to be much in the case against him, he seems to have handled it well and I get a slightly more town feel from him, I get why a lot of us might be suspicious of that feeling at the moment though, no one wants to run the risk of scum running the thread but at the moment i'd be disinclined to vote on him.

Apparently did think Atrahal was scummy earlier but now (day 2) doesn't:

Olar Ethil, on 15 March 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

Tennes, on 15 March 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

In a lot of my notes so far Atrahal has been the aggressor, attacking quite a few people. You see this first with Rashan on post number 68. Number 142 he agrees with Karosis about Korvalian and then has a pissing match with tellan. I haven't went further than this in my notes yet but I think Atrahal is more than likely town, I cannot see scum being that "out there". I asked you about him because something seemed off about him but over a re read i'm not sure at all. I am going to have a look through and see what I can find



edit, spelling

I've had a similar feeling in regards to Atrahal, there was a point, especially after his exchanges and agreements with Karosis that I felt suspicious of him but re-reading his posts he doesn't strike me as very scummy, this is quite a gut feeling though. I honestly don't think scum if they were a certain type of player would always keep quiet and be non-confrontational, so it is not even this angle that gives me that feeling. Of course Karosis showed up as inno and so maybe this is effecting my judgement in Atrahals favour since I see to have the two linked in my mind.

Barghasts list of low posters struck me as scummy though. Yes, low posters can be concerning as the game goes on but it is better to have a post with content, discussion and opinions rather than have a high number of posts in which little is being said.

I am still interested in Tellan and Rashan, Rashan was very opposed to the possible symping tellan seemed to be doing for him and Tellan said this was not the case and after this was picked up by a few people became suspicious of Rashan. Tellan said it was less a defence and more an attack against Atrahal and I though yesterday it could be a case of fake symping but the whole thing leaves me unsure. I can't see Tellan taking that long to pick up Rashan's hints and then turning suspicion on him so fast, it is just so clumsy. That is what makes me think that it could be a case of fake symping, I was wrong about it being fake symping on behalf of Karosis but there were few other players getting heat around the time, Fener had a couple of casual votes but there is little to go off there since he has said little and it was mainly based on the history of the avatar so I can't see it having become such a great threat.

Another note: OE has been mentioning Rashan from pretty early.


I think there's certainly a case for OE as atrahals leader.

I do get the impression that Atrahal's suspicion of Omtose was a bit dodgy, and it seems a good place to look for his leader. Looking at the train, he is third after Okaros and Ruse, with OE joining later.

His vote is somewhat suspect. He had been on, and talking about suspects. I believe Kalse had even said at the time it looked a bit like people were waiting around looking for direction from their leader. Shortly after the first couple of votes on Omtose we get "Let's do this then" followed by a vote. Paints Okaros and Ruse a bit dodgily. Ruse/Atrahal and Okaros/Atrahal relations seem a good place to look. I noticed when looking back for when Atrahal mentions Omtose that Ruse also goes for Omtose before Atrahal really goes for him.

[Korvalain]

I need to cast my vote in about an hour. Day times out for me before I can get back online.

[Kalse]

Korvalain, on 22 March 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

Kalse, on 22 March 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

wow, X-post

Why did you take Ruse off your list? Also, you think that Serc was recruited last night by Barghy? Interesting. It's possible of course. He was pretty much CI yesterday and would likely draw little heat today, making him a good recruit target. ( yeah yeah WIFOM)

Becase Atrahal wanted to lynch him.

I'll have to go back and look at this. If it happened yesterday, then yeah, he's probably not Atrahals recruiter. But if it was day 1 or 2.. he would be a prime recruit candidate to get atrahal off his back.

anyway, out for a while. gotta catch a train.

[Barghast]

Korvalain, on 22 March 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 22 March 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

It is Day 5.

There are 11 hours and 56 minutes remaining.

15 players are left alive:
Barghast, D'riss, Gamelon, Kalse, Korvalain, Mockra, Okaros, Olar Ethil, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Serc, Silanah, Tellan, Tennes


8 votes to lynch, 7 to go to night.

1 vote Ruse: Barghast
1 vote Kalse: Tennes
1 vote Olar Ethil: Kalse

Players not voting: D'riss, Gamelon, Korvalain, Mockra, Okaros, Olar Ethil, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Serc, Silanah, Tellan

What?

I see that Rashan voted for Ruse not Barghast.

This looks like a mistake by PS.

Though I still stand by what I said that Serc if following Barghast vote on Ruse but Rashan was the one who actually voted for Ruse.

hey genius, there should be 3 votes on Ruse: me, Rash and Serc.

[Barghast]

Barghast, on 22 March 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Ruse, on 22 March 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

A scum CF?

excellent!!

I never pegged atrahal as scum...he was receiving way to much attention from all over to have been recruited surely?

this post stinks.
recruiting a top poster is a very good cult move--for the very obvious reason that they'll stir up all kinds of shit, and their eventual lynch will leave a WIFOM storm.

i'm not buying the "super wide-eyed innocent" act you've got going here



vote Ruse

you are trying too hard.

just to make sure you're reading selectively, Korvy

[Tellan]

This vote strikes me as a bit off...I think it's the first time in the game Kalse has mentioned Mockra.

Kalse, on 20 March 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

Mockra has been suspicious to me all game.

vote Mockra

I have 0 time today. I am caught up, but only breifly skimmed. I really don't buy a Rashan case as a leader, no one is so certain about a lynch.. and then wrong. Leaders don't put themselves out there like that. I still stand by the reasoning that a leader is going to be in the mid to low posting range.

Anyway, thats really all I have. There has been little in the way of interactions on the thread, so not much analysis to be done. Pity that the game has really bogged down with only 1 NK in 3 nights...for me, thats usually my main source of info, poking and prodding. When no one dies, it's like a never ending day. hard to move on from issues. (See Liosan)

[Korvalain]

Barghast, on 22 March 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

Barghast, on 22 March 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Ruse, on 22 March 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

A scum CF?

excellent!!

I never pegged atrahal as scum...he was receiving way to much attention from all over to have been recruited surely?

this post stinks.
recruiting a top poster is a very good cult move--for the very obvious reason that they'll stir up all kinds of shit, and their eventual lynch will leave a WIFOM storm.

i'm not buying the "super wide-eyed innocent" act you've got going here



vote Ruse

you are trying too hard.

just to make sure you're reading selectively, Korvy

I must not have gone back far enough when I was looking at when you voted for Ruse. I just saw your vote and the very next one after PS posted was from Rashan but it wasn't counted I stopped searching.

[Barghast]

lol, yeah, I didn't see your remove vote in the wall of text you've made.

I find it admirable, but, like Kalse i question the probabtive value of something a symp has said/did not say.

also, it would've been better if you didn't omit yourself from the list of suspects. Whilst I realise that you certainly think you can't be the recruiter, the rest of us may not necessarily agree.

[Barghast]

15 players are left alive:
Barghast, D'riss, Gamelon, Kalse, Korvalain, Mockra, Okaros, Olar Ethil, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Serc, Silanah, Tellan, Tennes


8 votes to lynch, 7 to go to night.
3 votes for Ruse: Barghast, Rashan, Serc
1 vote for Kalse: Tennes
1 vote for Olar Ethil : Kalse




Players not voting: D'riss, Gamelon, Korvalain, Mockra, Okaros, Olar Ethil, Omtose, Ruse, Silanah, Tellan,

i'm ballparking about 12 h and 16 minutes left

This post has been edited by Barghast: 22 March 2012 - 10:57 PM

[Korvalain]

Barghast, on 22 March 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

lol, yeah, I didn't see your remove vote in the wall of text you've made.

I find it admirable, but, like Kalse i question the probabtive value of something a symp has said/did not say.

also, it would've been better if you didn't omit yourself from the list of suspects. Whilst I realise that you certainly think you can't be the recruiter, the rest of us may not necessarily agree.

But you have to admit the striking simialities of the two lists that were gathered by two different people looking at two different sources of data. The fact that we have 3 players matching leads me to believe that we have a very good chance of finding our recruiter within them. Of the other two Okaros and Olar Ethil who do you think we should look at.

As for Ruse I'll take a look within my wall o posts. there were some comment that Khell made regarding Ruse/Mockra/Omtose that could have been sarcastic so I may have mistakenly removed Ruse from my list of suspects.

[Korvalain]

Korvalain, on 22 March 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 20 March 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

I also raised an eyebrow at Korvalain's sudden upage in content posts. It was only yesterday that I said that I'd forgotten there was even a Korvalain in this game.

However, the fact that Korv has raised up a few people means there's no specific agenda that can be linked as yet to his sudden exit from passivity.


On the other hand:

I'm now convinced that D'riss has been recruited.

Something in all that Korv posted recently has really not sat well at all with D'riss. Ergo, (at least) one of Tennes, Gamelon and Ruse is a cult leader.

I can't really write off any of these players as not a recruiter but I do think we can write them off as not being Atrahal's Recruiter

Barghast, D'riss, Gamelon, Kalse, Mockra, Okaros, Olar Ethil, Omtose, Rashan Ruse, Serc?, Tellan, Tennes

Looks like this is where I struck Ruse from my suspect list. On further review maybe it wasn't a strong enough reason to do so.

[Barghast]

Korvalain, on 22 March 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

Barghast, on 22 March 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

lol, yeah, I didn't see your remove vote in the wall of text you've made.

I find it admirable, but, like Kalse i question the probabtive value of something a symp has said/did not say.

also, it would've been better if you didn't omit yourself from the list of suspects. Whilst I realise that you certainly think you can't be the recruiter, the rest of us may not necessarily agree.

But you have to admit the striking simialities of the two lists that were gathered by two different people looking at two different sources of data. The fact that we have 3 players matching leads me to believe that we have a very good chance of finding our recruiter within them. Of the other two Okaros and Olar Ethil who do you think we should look at.

As for Ruse I'll take a look within my wall o posts. there were some comment that Khell made regarding Ruse/Mockra/Omtose that could have been sarcastic so I may have mistakenly removed Ruse from my list of suspects.

The one thing I will certainly agree on, is the fact that the people that pop up on both list have had little to none interaction wih Khell.

While it may seem rational to draw from this the conclusion that one of them must be his recruiter, it won't be strictly necessarily true. Khell is a veteran symp, he could easily ensure to attack his master in such away so as to make his attack both flimsy enough to be easily dismissed, and yet memorable enough to be considered as a "serious attack".

in particular, I really dislike that bitching post directed @ gamelon which boiled down to "who the fuck are you, you haven't done anything, it should be you here instead of me". If Gamelon was in fact, Khel's recruiter, and felt that people may start looking his way, he could've easiy sacrificed him to make sure he'd stay totally under the radar, as he still is. I'm not implying this is 100% proof that he's Atrahal's boss, but that's not somehting to discard easily either.