[Jump Around]

Bent, on 04 March 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

Ill be back tomorrow. Vigs vigging each other is the worst idea ever, if one is lying he cant vig, then we lynch him the following day. If neither are, they have 2 shots to hit scum, and if both are, we have 2 fake reveals worth lynching and since the vigs didnt work, we lose nothing. But vigs shooting each other is stupid.

That makes no sense whatsoever

[Jump Around]

Mentalist, on 03 March 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Jump Around, on 03 March 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

If we were certain one is lying, then the idea of asking them to "vig" each other is win-win: the honest one survives.

However, if they are both honest, that is one big waste (although it could show us the scum, who won't be able to post for a few days while they try to catch their breaths from the laughing.)

I, for one, can say I'm not convinced one is lying.

problem: day actions aren't simultaneous. they can't vig each other. whomever's order PS reads first will live.

also, it's a venge of potentially 2 PIs.

I've been thinking about this, and either Ment didn't think this through, or he made a strange slip

How is the fact that the day actions aren't simultaneous a "problem"?

Not that I fully condone this idea of a vig duel (and I don't like people calling it "my" plan, it was discussed before these posts where I just considered what the consequences could be), but if anything the fact that they are not simultaneous is not a problem, on the contrary. If one is lying, it makes no difference, if both are honest, we lose only one instead of both.

This is a "problem" only if:
a - You are sure both are telling the truth
b - You hope is that they both die in the shoot-out.

Only scum would know (a) and wish (b )

[Jump Around]

And my current opinion is this:

In order to accept that both are telling the truth, we have to figure out somehow what kind of setting, or mechanic, or surprise, or whatever is in this game for the mods to include two day vigs. That's a very special role, to have one is rare, but two??

And if we can't think of a reason, then one is lying, and the shoot-out will solve it.

Putting my mod hat on, game reasons I can think of to add these day vigs (instead of, say, normal vigs) would be:

- symps are also guards, and I would want the inno vigs not to be hindered
- symps are also day-guards, and I wanted an additional, secret cat-and-mouse game to be played in the background.

The first one is lame, why this focus on the inno vigs? Unless the mods want this altless setting to become a grudge-building game. And the second one sounds... superfluous to me in a game that was promised as a relatively M&P.

I can't think of anything else for now.

[Mentalist]

Jump Around, on 04 March 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 03 March 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Jump Around, on 03 March 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

If we were certain one is lying, then the idea of asking them to "vig" each other is win-win: the honest one survives.

However, if they are both honest, that is one big waste (although it could show us the scum, who won't be able to post for a few days while they try to catch their breaths from the laughing.)

I, for one, can say I'm not convinced one is lying.

problem: day actions aren't simultaneous. they can't vig each other. whomever's order PS reads first will live.

also, it's a venge of potentially 2 PIs.

I've been thinking about this, and either Ment didn't think this through, or he made a strange slip

How is the fact that the day actions aren't simultaneous a "problem"?

Not that I fully condone this idea of a vig duel (and I don't like people calling it "my" plan, it was discussed before these posts where I just considered what the consequences could be), but if anything the fact that they are not simultaneous is not a problem, on the contrary. If one is lying, it makes no difference, if both are honest, we lose only one instead of both.

This is a "problem" only if:
a - You are sure both are telling the truth
b - You hope is that they both die in the shoot-out.

Only scum would know (a) and wish (b )

"problem" means "your plan as you invisioned it (two vigs taking out each other) won't work. we won't get the finality you'd hopre yto achieve with 2 vigs taking each other out"

i've had a decent amount to drink. please don't tell me you're gonna make me argue semantics with you AGAIN?

[Mentalist]

Jump Around, on 04 March 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

And my current opinion is this:

In order to accept that both are telling the truth, we have to figure out somehow what kind of setting, or mechanic, or surprise, or whatever is in this game for the mods to include two day vigs. That's a very special role, to have one is rare, but two??

And if we can't think of a reason, then one is lying, and the shoot-out will solve it.

Putting my mod hat on, game reasons I can think of to add these day vigs (instead of, say, normal vigs) would be:

- symps are also guards, and I would want the inno vigs not to be hindered
- symps are also day-guards, and I wanted an additional, secret cat-and-mouse game to be played in the background.

The first one is lame, why this focus on the inno vigs? Unless the mods want this altless setting to become a grudge-building game. And the second one sounds... superfluous to me in a game that was promised as a relatively M&P.

I can't think of anything else for now.

it was intended to resolve grudges 9bhence altless), but that doesn't mena you can't buld new ones.

[Jump Around]

And assuming a perfect world where vigs will listen to the thread, which I'm still waiting to happen after about 50-60 games played, then I add my vote to Vengeance, for the reasons I said before.

I really didn't like Stalker's response to that post, though.

[Mentalist]

Jump Around, on 04 March 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 03 March 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Jump Around, on 03 March 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

If we were certain one is lying, then the idea of asking them to "vig" each other is win-win: the honest one survives.

However, if they are both honest, that is one big waste (although it could show us the scum, who won't be able to post for a few days while they try to catch their breaths from the laughing.)

I, for one, can say I'm not convinced one is lying.

problem: day actions aren't simultaneous. they can't vig each other. whomever's order PS reads first will live.

also, it's a venge of potentially 2 PIs.

I've been thinking about this, and either Ment didn't think this through, or he made a strange slip

How is the fact that the day actions aren't simultaneous a "problem"?

Not that I fully condone this idea of a vig duel (and I don't like people calling it "my" plan, it was discussed before these posts where I just considered what the consequences could be), but if anything the fact that they are not simultaneous is not a problem, on the contrary. If one is lying, it makes no difference, if both are honest, we lose only one instead of both.

This is a "problem" only if:
a - You are sure both are telling the truth
b - You hope is that they both die in the shoot-out.

Only scum would know (a) and wish (b )

also, you're avoiding the possibilty of a symp. scum wpon't know if one if a symp.
i'm speaking purely theoretical here, b4 you use this as "another slip" suggesting i'm telling you how scum would think b/c i'm scum.

[Jump Around]

Mentalist, on 04 March 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

"problem" means "your plan as you invisioned it (two vigs taking out each other) won't work. we won't get the finality you'd hopre yto achieve with 2 vigs taking each other out"

i've had a decent amount to drink. please don't tell me you're gonna make me argue semantics with you AGAIN?

My "plan" was never to have the two vigs to kill each other, it was to request them to target each other, in order to kill whichever is lying (i.e. the one who can't target shit. Both of them possibly dying is what made me think it was far from a perfect solution, so how is that not happening come up to your mind as a "problem"?

Or do you think we have an inno day vig and a scum day vig and there's a risk the scum one kills the inno one first?

[Mentalist]

Jump Around, on 04 March 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 04 March 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

"problem" means "your plan as you invisioned it (two vigs taking out each other) won't work. we won't get the finality you'd hopre yto achieve with 2 vigs taking each other out"

i've had a decent amount to drink. please don't tell me you're gonna make me argue semantics with you AGAIN?

My "plan" was never to have the two vigs to kill each other, it was to request them to target each other, in order to kill whichever is lying (i.e. the one who can't target shit. Both of them possibly dying is what made me think it was far from a perfect solution, so how is that not happening come up to your mind as a "problem"?

Or do you think we have an inno day vig and a scum day vig and there's a risk the scum one kills the inno one first?

i'm not discounting the possibilty, as i've said before. the whole scenario's too weird, it fits multiple scenarios.

[HoosierDaddy]

My problem with it is I might get murderized and I know I'm town. And, I actually believe Silencer. Unless he is a symp, he has no reason to do what he did, and if so, he won't be able to vig somebody. Unless it's a symp-vig and that is grossly over-powered.

[Mentalist]

and yah, i've interpreted you saying " have the vigs take each other out", as "let's have them kill each other".

and once I pointed out that the actions aren't simultaneous, you recanted, saying, "didn't think of that, forgot these aren't NAs", so don't go around changing your story now telling us you thought only one would die all along, b/c that's not what you were thinking.

[Mentalist]

Jump Around, on 03 March 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

Mentalist, on 03 March 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Jump Around, on 03 March 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

If we were certain one is lying, then the idea of asking them to "vig" each other is win-win: the honest one survives.

However, if they are both honest, that is one big waste (although it could show us the scum, who won't be able to post for a few days while they try to catch their breaths from the laughing.)

I, for one, can say I'm not convinced one is lying.

problem: day actions aren't simultaneous. they can't vig each other. whomever's order PS reads first will live.

also, it's a venge of potentially 2 PIs.

Ah, yes, sorry. I keep thinking like NAs

anf here's the quote to prove it

[Mentalist]

also, wtf did I mean by i't a "*venge of 2 PIs?"
I sure as hell wasn't drunk then.....

[Jump Around]

Mentalist, on 04 March 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

Jump Around, on 03 March 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

Mentalist, on 03 March 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Jump Around, on 03 March 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

If we were certain one is lying, then the idea of asking them to "vig" each other is win-win: the honest one survives.

However, if they are both honest, that is one big waste (although it could show us the scum, who won't be able to post for a few days while they try to catch their breaths from the laughing.)

I, for one, can say I'm not convinced one is lying.

problem: day actions aren't simultaneous. they can't vig each other. whomever's order PS reads first will live.

also, it's a venge of potentially 2 PIs.

Ah, yes, sorry. I keep thinking like NAs

anf here's the quote to prove it

Yeah, it was a brain fart that took me about 1 minute to realize.

And it took D'rek about the same time to come up to the same conclusion.

You on, the other hand, thought it, wrote it, and never really corrected yourself.

[HoosierDaddy]

Mentalist, on 04 March 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

also, wtf did I mean by i't a "*venge of 2 PIs?"
I sure as hell wasn't drunk then.....

It's a symp slip to his master.

Although you doing it would be hilarious.

[Jump Around]

Mentalist, on 04 March 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

also, wtf did I mean by i't a "*venge of 2 PIs?"
I sure as hell wasn't drunk then.....

That was another slip where you reveal your master.

You really meant "I hope Venge will be able to take out the 2 PIs@

[Mentalist]

Jump Around, on 04 March 2012 - 07:46 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 04 March 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

Jump Around, on 03 March 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

Mentalist, on 03 March 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Jump Around, on 03 March 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

If we were certain one is lying, then the idea of asking them to "vig" each other is win-win: the honest one survives.

However, if they are both honest, that is one big waste (although it could show us the scum, who won't be able to post for a few days while they try to catch their breaths from the laughing.)

I, for one, can say I'm not convinced one is lying.

problem: day actions aren't simultaneous. they can't vig each other. whomever's order PS reads first will live.

also, it's a venge of potentially 2 PIs.

Ah, yes, sorry. I keep thinking like NAs

anf here's the quote to prove it

Yeah, it was a brain fart that took me about 1 minute to realize.

And it took D'rek about the same time to come up to the same conclusion.

You on, the other hand, thought it, wrote it, and never really corrected yourself.

why t f would I correct myself, once I pointed it out as a flaw in your reasoning? how is that not enough to to say "I don't think it's a good idea?"

[Mentalist]

Jump Around, on 04 March 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 04 March 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

also, wtf did I mean by i't a "*venge of 2 PIs?"
I sure as hell wasn't drunk then.....

That was another slip where you reveal your master.

You really meant "I hope Venge will be able to take out the 2 PIs@

and me naming him as my no1 target on a the "let's vig him" wishlist was clever distancing?

[HoosierDaddy]

Mentalist, on 04 March 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

Jump Around, on 04 March 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 04 March 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

also, wtf did I mean by i't a "*venge of 2 PIs?"
I sure as hell wasn't drunk then.....

That was another slip where you reveal your master.

You really meant "I hope Venge will be able to take out the 2 PIs@

and me naming him as my no1 target on a the "let's vig him" wishlist was clever distancing?

You inherit the kill?

[Mentalist]

H.D., on 04 March 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 04 March 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

Jump Around, on 04 March 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 04 March 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

also, wtf did I mean by i't a "*venge of 2 PIs?"
I sure as hell wasn't drunk then.....

That was another slip where you reveal your master.

You really meant "I hope Venge will be able to take out the 2 PIs@

and me naming him as my no1 target on a the "let's vig him" wishlist was clever distancing?

You inherit the kill?

this isn't last game....