[bluedust]

So I didn't mind DoD, since I knew it was half a book, so there'd be a lot of filler. I'm 400 pages into TCG and all that's happened are chain POVs of soldiers all sharing the exact same philosophy in their minds. If this was in the middle of the series, or an ICE book I wouldn't mind 400 pages of soldiers sounding like a nihilistic archaeologist in their thoughts. Dust, Blood, Bloody Shitty Mud, Nothing matters, all dies lives again, blah blah blah blah.

I guess I'm just worried, does the action pick up? If A Memory of Light comes out and half the book is like Crossroads of Twilight where we follow around a caravan with the main characters talking and.. talking, and talking, I'll be pissed. I want to see Tarmon Gaiden, I want to see the world ending, not Rand's thoughts about dying that I've read for 13 books already.

I know some assholes will jump on this, like Worrywort, so let me explain better. I LIKE the dialogue, I'd absolutely buy a side book called "The Inner Thoughts of People About to Die in the Malazan World.", but now that I'm halfway through the LAST book and it's still going around hearing the same nihilistic inner thoughts of everyone, why couldn't that have all been in DoD? 1900 pages for the series ending and all I can remember of any action in TCG is the Shake fighting some dragon force, after hundreds of pages it seems like the dragons are about to come out, finally some action! Nope back to another group that's depressed and hot, complaining about their smell. Is there an actual exciting ending? I imagine all the speaking is to try and get people emotionally involved in these characters, but they're so similar I don't really care for any of them, so lets see them die. Lets see SOMETHING.

This post has been edited by bluedust: 02 March 2012 - 03:06 AM

[amphibian]

Whoa, Worrywort gets a shoutout!

One idea is that you could jump to the last page and then backtrack until you've reached the exact point where you identify the "jump-off point".

Another is that you could hold the fuck onto your britches and trust in Erikson to deliver you something pretty good in about 70 pages. The Crippled God is a build to a big finish that goes on for quite a while, that's for sure.

[HoosierDaddy]

Hahaha. Take that Worrywort!

Nah, just keep reading man I'm sure you'll get some of what you are looking for. A lot of people had the expectation this would just be one big action book. Well, he's still setting up the pieces for the big booms for a little while. But the explosions come.

[worry]

[Kanese S's]

I happen to like Worrywort, and I find myself annoyed by people with no patience.

It gets to the climax, and it's awesome. In my opinion, obviously. You've stuck with this author for nine damn books already, a little bit more shouldn't be that much of a wait. Did you really expect Erikson to conclude his huge series with a book that's pure action?

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

I was similarly surprised by this, after Erikson described DoD as a book of buildup and TCG as "all payoff" (or something similar). But trust me, when the payoff comes... oh, how it comes. The last third-to-two-fifths of the book is pure brilliance, and while I wish it had been spaced out a bit more - it actually feels ever so slightly rushed and occasionally shortchanged - it's well worth it and totally justifies the buildup.

[Puck]

Come on, you've stuck with SE for nine books, you've lived through TtH, and at the end of every single one of those he delivered. It's always the same pattern, so why should the tenth book be different? There's a freakin' reason why there's so much talking and thinking, and if you don't see the why now, there's at least hope you will when you'll finish the book.

Also, I agree with Kanese about people and patience.

[Aptorian]

Kanese S, on 23 February 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

Did you really expect Erikson to conclude his huge series with a book that's pure action?

Yes. Yes I did. I expected that his tenth book, in a series about convergences, would be one big convergence. Because that's what Erikson said it would be.

Don't read this until you've read the last page of the 10th book.

Seriously don't.

Spoiler

Instead we got lots of plodding along and POVs thinking about how thirsty they are. Where was the big pantheon war mentioned in Bonehunters? Where was the big bad guys that we were supposed to be afraid of? Where was the awesome armies led by awesome ascendants and gods and ancient monsters? Where was Icarium going full out destroyer of worlds? Where was the showdown between Calm and Karsa? Where was the epic death of Fener we were expecting? Where was Brood and his Hammer? Where was Skinner and Kallor and all the other members of the House of Chains? Why was K'rul the prize that they were fighting for? Etc. etc.

[End of Disc One]

Haha nice callout to Worrywort.

Anyway I hate to say it but I'm with Apt here. I really did expect the book to be mostly climax because that's what Erikson said in an interview (I'd find the video but I don't feel like it right now). TCG is a great book but it's really "just" another Malazan book.

Although

Spoiler

the epic death of Fener? I don't see how that didn't deliver

This post has been edited by End of Disc One: 23 February 2012 - 02:04 PM

[champ]

Aptorius, on 23 February 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

Kanese S, on 23 February 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

Did you really expect Erikson to conclude his huge series with a book that's pure action?

Yes. Yes I did. I expected that his tenth book, in a series about convergences, would be one big convergence. Because that's what Erikson said it would be.

Don't read this until you've read the last page of the 10th book.

Seriously don't.

Spoiler

Instead we got lots of plodding along and POVs thinking about how thirsty they are. Where was the big pantheon war mentioned in Bonehunters? Where was the big bad guys that we were supposed to be afraid of? Where was the awesome armies led by awesome ascendants and gods and ancient monsters? Where was Icarium going full out destroyer of worlds? Where was the showdown between Calm and Karsa? Where was the epic death of Fener we were expecting? Where was Brood and his Hammer? Where was Skinner and Kallor and all the other members of the House of Chains? Why was K'rul the prize that they were fighting for? Etc. etc.

End of Disc One, on 23 February 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

Haha nice callout to Worrywort.

Anyway I hate to say it but I'm with Apt here. I really did expect the book to be mostly climax because that's what Erikson said in an interview (I'd find the video but I don't feel like it right now). TCG is a great book but it's really "just" another Malazan book.

Although

Spoiler

the epic death of Fener? I don't see how that didn't deliver

Aye, got to agree.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved tCG but after what SE said in the interview, I was suprised the first 300-400 pages were building rather than kapow action!

[worry]

I think some of Apt's complaints are legit, but (and TCG spoilers abound)...

Spoiler

1) Calm was never going to actually meet up with Karsa, that was a misinterpretation of the scene that admittedly most of us had (based on very little info on FA at the time and her all-out creepiness). But Calm isn't psychic, she wasn't making a prophecy, she only sensed his potential and his (unknown to him) affiliations with the HoC, so she was only "merely" threatening Karsa and boasting of her own powers to stop him. If you reread the passage this is more clear in retrospect.
2) The thing about the pantheon war certainly didn't pan out as I expected, but I don't think a "big bad guy" or gigantic armies of ascendents was ever more than one of numerous possibilities. I don't feel cheated by their absence, and I kind of prefer what we got instead (though I'd have liked a little more overt threat/displays of power from the FA).
3) Icarium we get plenty of info on re: his potential for destruction, his part in this particular story was all about avoiding that result. And the toll it takes on those around him. I'd call Icarium's anti-arc one of the biggest success stories of the whole series, and a great counterpoint to how epic the moment is to everyone else. It's just another chapter in the long sad book of Iccy.
4) The absence of the HoC members is entirely appropriate and kind of genius. The mad, wounded, vicious, spiteful, vengeful god gets his power legitimized into a House, but is basically abandoned by all of those he shaped in his image (or imagined were naturally on his side)...OF COURSE they weren't ultimately loyal to him, they had their own agendas, and he fooled himself the whole time.

[tiam]

Aptorius, on 23 February 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

Kanese S, on 23 February 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

Did you really expect Erikson to conclude his huge series with a book that's pure action?

Yes. Yes I did. I expected that his tenth book, in a series about convergences, would be one big convergence. Because that's what Erikson said it would be.

Don't read this until you've read the last page of the 10th book.

Seriously don't.

Spoiler

Instead we got lots of plodding along and POVs thinking about how thirsty they are. Where was the big pantheon war mentioned in Bonehunters? Where was the big bad guys that we were supposed to be afraid of? Where was the awesome armies led by awesome ascendants and gods and ancient monsters? Where was Icarium going full out destroyer of worlds? Where was the showdown between Calm and Karsa? Where was the epic death of Fener we were expecting? Where was Brood and his Hammer? Where was Skinner and Kallor and all the other members of the House of Chains? Why was K'rul the prize that they were fighting for? Etc. etc.

I have to agree with this especially as he said that DOD was simply the first half of TCG. Alot of that was marching around places etc. While that ended with a large battle and a cliffhanger TCG should hav been more action orientated I feel. I also agree the war of the Gods could have been more war-like.

[blackzoid]

I would also agree with Apt to an extant. TCG was a great and fantastic Malazan book. But it was not the epic/convergence/climax of the entire series that I had built up to in my mind, it was "just" a regular Malazan book in the end. The climax is on the same scale of TTH and MOI for me. Which is great. But not really exceeding them. Perhaps some false advertising was done? Perhaps?
Unfortunatedly DoD comes off as a weaker installment after reading TCG. I think anyway.

[Gander]

I would say it gets better, then gets really better, then, like, whoa, hold on, waaaay better. Then, when it was over, I was like, "Man, that could've been better." The point being, I wanted more than what we got. What we got was great, no question. Some of the best scenes in the series. So much is left undone,though; so much unexplained. And after the initial rush of the finale, I think the reader is somewhat disheartened to realize the convergence we got wasn't the impossibly awesome convergence we all wanted, hoped for and -- in some cases -- expected Steve to pull off.

Still an awesome book. One of my faves.

[worry]

[Gander]

worrywort, on 25 February 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

Indeed.

[bluedust]

H.D., on 23 February 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

Hahaha. Take that Worrywort!

Nah, just keep reading man I'm sure you'll get some of what you are looking for. A lot of people had the expectation this would just be one big action book. Well, he's still setting up the pieces for the big booms for a little while. But the explosions come.

Only got to this post so far, just wanted to say I agree. I loved the ending, I just really think DoD and tCG could have been put together and a lot of the nihilistic filler cut out. I understand the viewpoints were needed, I just think maybe not so many? I mean we read them throughout the whole series.

A good ending though. Now to read the rest of the posts, can't wait, heh. I still feel the first half of tCG was mostly filler.

[bluedust]

Kanese S, on 23 February 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

I happen to like Worrywort, and I find myself annoyed by people with no patience.

It gets to the climax, and it's awesome. In my opinion, obviously. You've stuck with this author for nine damn books already, a little bit more shouldn't be that much of a wait. Did you really expect Erikson to conclude his huge series with a book that's pure action?

Did I expect it? Yes.

First, Apologies, I won't make anymore multiple posts, I just didn't want to respond until after I finished the book.

Before posting I already bought the ICE books, I knew there were side books planned, I figured all side stuff would be fine in those, not in the last book.
My reasoning being, DOD was sold as half the final book, so that's 1900 some pages total, and the whole first half of tCG did nothing, I was worried it wouldn't have a good ending. It was spectacular, but I feel maybe the half space would have been better served
with people like Kallor, etc.

Fake Edit: Like I said in the OP, I ENJOYED the "nothing". Just not when the world was about to die. Or at least fit it into DoD.

In any case, I liked it.. I still feel Erikson preaches too much though, but it's his series so that's fine, but I can still complain.

[worry]

With all that time SE was spending with the Bonehunters and some others, he was likely just saying goodbye to many of them. So were readers, whether they know it or not at the time. And they're gone now.

[bluedust]

worrywort, on 02 March 2012 - 03:04 AM, said:

With all that time SE was spending with the Bonehunters and some others, he was likely just saying goodbye to many of them. So were readers, whether they know it or not at the time. And they're gone now.

But it was boring as shit for 400 pages. Make a side series and it's cool.

Honestly if DoD wasn't billed as half of the end I probably wouldn't have cared so much. But I ran through DoD, got to tCG and found half of it didn't have anything happen. I loved reading everyone's thoughts, but man.