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The USA Politics Thread

#281 User is offline   Ceda Cicero 

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 07:53 PM

View PostVengeance, on 18 July 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

View PostCeda Cicero, on 18 July 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

View PostVengeance, on 18 July 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

View Postworrywort, on 18 July 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

It's less likely that he's a felon than that he's a persistent and shameless liar, and really what's sticking is his total incompetence at handling the issue (which itself was raised as journalistic vetting, not a political attack, but which has become an effective one in tandem with his refusal to provide substantive tax returns before 2010). He's still fighting on the "attacking Bain is attacking capitalism" front while the country -- much different from the fickle cross-eyed crowds at the Republican debates -- are on the whole "it's not that you're rich, it's how you got rich" thing, which he cannot combat coherently. He is apparently unable to both distance himself from Bain post-1999 AND defend vulture capitalism (which was the company's function before and after 1999 regardless), and he's floundering.



This is true the felon bit is a long shot but this should have came out during the primary. By showing that Bain was a anti - american job capitalist company who made money at the expense of the american worker the Democrats are able to negate the way that Romney deflected the issue in the primary. I think that if the Tea parties hadn't been driving retards as presidential contenders this would have been a much bigger issue during the primary. But instead of good contenders they had rick santorum... :) and Ron Paul. :(


The day that the Tea Party has a good contender may well be the day I go expat.


It wasn't so much that they can't have a good contender (not possible) it is that for a republican to win the primary he has to pander to them. Thus preventing decent republican politicians from even bothering to run. If their are any remaining decent republican politicians left I mean. Most of them have retired or have had to start pandering to the retards to retain there position. The republican party is not the party who fought for womens rights and civil rights any more. When the 19th amendment was passed (1920) republicans controlled 36 of the state legislatures. Peggy Goldwater's, Barry Goldwaters wife founded the phoenix Planned Parenthood once of the nations largest.

It was the republican party that helped Kennedy and then Johnson push through the civil rights act.

Now the republican party looks and acts the exact opposite. Instead of fighting for rights they are trying to take away peoples right to vote and close Planned Parenthood. One of the main driving force of this is the Tea Party. Thus the failure of the republican party to actually be able to field worthy candidates for the office of the President and have a real vetting primary is there fault.


Agreed. And while it's true that the Tea Party has seriously taken the Republican party off the rails, the Tea Party itself, as a movement, is not what it was at its inception. There's still the "grass roots" front, but that's a total smoke screen for the hijacking that's quietly taken place by entities like the Koch brothers.

View PostIlluyankas, on 07 April 2011 - 08:37 PM, said:

How do you rape a cave? Do you ask, "You want to fuck, yes?" hear the echo come back, "Yes... es... es..." and get your barnacle-gouged groove on?

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#282 User is offline   Vengeance 

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 08:12 PM

As a original movement the tea party was back lash against what was viewed to be bigger government (with some racist rants thrown in). The koch brother were able to take that anger and direct it against all government interference. Of course the koch brothers plans on taking over the Republican party were in place before the tea party movement which was why they were in a position to take it over. They had been holding training sessions for future "republican" candidates for years before. Putting those candidates in front of the tea party was just a lot quicker and more convenient then having to have them work through the traditional political channels.
How many fucking people do I have to hammer in order to get that across.
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#283 User is offline   Vengeance 

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 08:14 PM

Of course that crap doesn't work in places where real politics is practiced (NY and Chicago). If your a retard here then you won't make it. Crooked yeah sure, expected. But you had better be somewhat smart. :)
How many fucking people do I have to hammer in order to get that across.
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#284 User is offline   Sindriss 

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 12:34 PM

I have never understood why there exist this prejudice against smart guys. It seems like a lot of the republican base turns to an "ordinary american" who embodies the middle - someone they can relate to I guess.

I would much rather have a really smart guy to handle the politics of my nation.

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#285 User is offline   cerveza_fiesta 

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 12:53 PM

View PostSindriss, on 19 July 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

I have never understood why there exist this prejudice against smart guys. It seems like a lot of the republican base turns to an "ordinary american" who embodies the middle - someone they can relate to I guess.

I would much rather have a really smart guy to handle the politics of my nation.


Exactly. Much as I might disagree with my prime minister's policies, I am 100% glad he has a master's level education. I would expect nothing less from the leader of my country.

Social, political, and economic elite? I can do without those qualities in a leader.

Uneducated? Fuck that noise.
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#286 User is offline   Vengeance 

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 01:26 PM

View PostSindriss, on 19 July 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

I have never understood why there exist this prejudice against smart guys. It seems like a lot of the republican base turns to an "ordinary american" who embodies the middle - someone they can relate to I guess.

I would much rather have a really smart guy to handle the politics of my nation.


Politicians here seem to feel that it is better to tell the electorate that they are just like them (the electorate) and so can be trusted to make decisions like they would ( the electorate) rather then saying, "I am really fucking smart and will look at all of the options and weigh all of the facts and consequences before I make a decision". It is through this idiocy that we have came to be saddled with Michele Bachmann.
How many fucking people do I have to hammer in order to get that across.
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#287 User is offline   Ceda Cicero 

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 02:14 PM

View PostVengeance, on 19 July 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

View PostSindriss, on 19 July 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

I have never understood why there exist this prejudice against smart guys. It seems like a lot of the republican base turns to an "ordinary american" who embodies the middle - someone they can relate to I guess.

I would much rather have a really smart guy to handle the politics of my nation.


Politicians here seem to feel that it is better to tell the electorate that they are just like them (the electorate) and so can be trusted to make decisions like they would ( the electorate) rather then saying, "I am really fucking smart and will look at all of the options and weigh all of the facts and consequences before I make a decision". It is through this idiocy that we have came to be saddled with Michele Bachmann.


What really makes my stomach churn on this front is how these types of politicians (Bachmann's, etc) try to retcon the framers and founders of America as simpleminded farmer folk who loved Jesus, guns, and freedom and so created a nation where everyone could have plenty of each. Total disregard for the fact that they were insanely well-educated, disgustingly eloquent Enlightenment-style thinkers.

View PostIlluyankas, on 07 April 2011 - 08:37 PM, said:

How do you rape a cave? Do you ask, "You want to fuck, yes?" hear the echo come back, "Yes... es... es..." and get your barnacle-gouged groove on?

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#288 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 02:16 PM

I think it stems from a few things, some of which are only surface explanations, and one of which goes deeper and perhaps to the heart of the problem.

1. Smart people can take advantage of regular folk in ways that regular folk can't understand, which is unfair.
2. Smart people are elite and therefore cannot understand the problems of the common man and have no motivation to try.
3. Education is equated with religion-destroying science, which is furthermore equated with the liberal agenda to make us all godless. This is why it's so easy for religious conservatives to buy the climate change denialists - it's all a conspiracy to make us godless.

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump. I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
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#289 User is offline   Destiny 

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 02:44 PM

View PostTerez, on 19 July 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

I think it stems from a few things, some of which are only surface explanations, and one of which goes deeper and perhaps to the heart of the problem.

1. Smart people can take advantage of regular folk in ways that regular folk can't understand, which is unfair.
2. Smart people are elite and therefore cannot understand the problems of the common man and have no motivation to try.
3. Education is equated with religion-destroying science, which is furthermore equated with the liberal agenda to make us all godless. This is why it's so easy for religious conservatives to buy the climate change denialists - it's all a conspiracy to make us godless.


See this is what I don't get about US politics. The whole God thing. If any one of our political candidates stood up and said they represented anything remotely religious they would get laughed out of office. That's not to say we have no tolerance for religion. It just has no place in politics. People are more than welcome to say they stand for traditional family values and such, but there's no reason to link it to anything remotely religious.
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#290 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 02:52 PM

The evangelical Christian mindset is that to do such a thing—to talk about 'traditional family values' and not link it to religion—is to be ashamed of God, which is by their reckoning one of the greatest sins a Christian can commit. It's just one aspect of the mindframe that everyone must be converted and that the US must be a Christian Nation (else God has somehow been slighted).

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump. I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
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#291 User is offline   Ceda Cicero 

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 03:33 PM

View PostTerez, on 19 July 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

The evangelical Christian mindset is that to do such a thing—to talk about 'traditional family values' and not link it to religion—is to be ashamed of God, which is by their reckoning one of the greatest sins a Christian can commit. It's just one aspect of the mindframe that everyone must be converted and that the US must be a Christian Nation (else God has somehow been slighted).


Truth.

What makes this super problematic is that you get people voting for the guy who loves Jesus the most, or people voting for the guy who touts 2-3 hot button "values-based" issues in his platform (abortion, gay marriage, etc.) Rather than actually stepping backing and having a look at the platform in its entirety.

For example, my mother (an evangelical in the truest sense of the word) was hell bent on voting for Obama in 2008, and on the whole agreed with his policies and stances way more than McCain/Palin. But she called me the day she voted and said that at the last minute God had "convicted her about the sanctity of life" and moved her to vote for McCain.

Whatever personal issues I have with religion aside (and I'll admit they are legion, so I may be biased), I think it's safe to say that this is in no way how a healthy democratic republic should work.

View PostIlluyankas, on 07 April 2011 - 08:37 PM, said:

How do you rape a cave? Do you ask, "You want to fuck, yes?" hear the echo come back, "Yes... es... es..." and get your barnacle-gouged groove on?

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#292 User is offline   cerveza_fiesta 

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 05:35 PM

Apparently Romney is hard on the defensive now about his tax return issue.

He's even quoted as saying that releasing only 2 years of tax returns is consistent with precedent in presidential nomination and electoral races.....a statement that is utterly false.

Romney's dad released 8yrs of tax returns in the 1960s during his own presidential campaign. He is in fact the guy who set the precedent for all subsequent candidates...with some of them releasing 10 years or more!

So anyway, a lot of folks in media are jumping on this story as the next big thing...and in it all Romney still steadfastly refuses to release more than 2 years of tax returns, building on his growing (and unwanted) reputation as a crafty, crooked business-minded rich guy. It's not a sure thing that he has something to hide, but none of this makes him look very good.

Also Maddow pointed out on her program last night that Obama is making massive gains in states that were always considered republican strongholds...including Texas (of all places). Apparently his popularity margin among the hispanic not-so-minority-anymore population is so overwhelmingly huge, he's actually making campaign stops there. I doubt he's gonna win the state or anything, but it's crazy how stuff works out sometimes.

*aside*

I hate to always quote the left media, but I find it really fucking hard to find credible right-leaning news sources these days.

This post has been edited by cerveza_fiesta: 19 July 2012 - 05:36 PM

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#293 User is offline   Ceda Cicero 

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 05:42 PM

http://www.huffingto..._n_1685735.html

View PostIlluyankas, on 07 April 2011 - 08:37 PM, said:

How do you rape a cave? Do you ask, "You want to fuck, yes?" hear the echo come back, "Yes... es... es..." and get your barnacle-gouged groove on?

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#294 User is offline   cerveza_fiesta 

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 05:58 PM

Obama's campaign must be just licking their chops at this opportunity. With so much "rich keep getting richer" chatter going about these days (eg occupy movement), the prospect of shady dealings among the financial elite is almost expected.

The opposing campaign doesn't even need to attack outright...just suggest that there might be something fishy in Romney's financial past and people will jump on the conspiracy wagon.

Unless he comes clean, I bet this issue dogs him all the way thru to November.
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#295 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 06:11 PM

View Postcerveza_fiesta, on 19 July 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

*aside*

I hate to always quote the left media, but I find it really fucking hard to find credible right-leaning news sources these days.

I skip almost all the media coverage in general and zero in on Nate Silver's 538 blog: http://fivethirtyeig...ogs.nytimes.com

He's been absolutely dead on in the last few election cycles and I've noticed that he does a fairly good job showing how much this or that media event actually affect the polls.

http://fivethirtyeig...cks/#more-32185

http://fivethirtyeig...aws/#more-32135
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#296 User is offline   Vengeance 

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 06:13 PM

View Postamphibian, on 19 July 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

View Postcerveza_fiesta, on 19 July 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

*aside*

I hate to always quote the left media, but I find it really fucking hard to find credible right-leaning news sources these days.

I skip almost all the media coverage in general and zero in on Nate Silver's 538 blog: http://fivethirtyeig...ogs.nytimes.com

He's been absolutely dead on in the last few election cycles and I've noticed that he does a fairly good job showing how much this or that media event actually affect the polls.

http://fivethirtyeig...cks/#more-32185

http://fivethirtyeig...aws/#more-32135


Nate Silver is really good. Best place for polling data and break down of trends. Actually does real reporting.
How many fucking people do I have to hammer in order to get that across.
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#297 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 11:43 PM

http://abcnews.go.co...-and-contracts/

Not too far off from the Tea Party's "keep the government's hands off my Medicare" or Craig T. Nelson's infamous "I was on food stamps and welfare and nobody helped me" moments. Except, you know, this is from the Republican candidate for President.
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#298 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 01:40 AM

--> Ron Paul in 2012!

I will vote for the person that takes this goverment apart and just stops funding the un-needed programs.

Here is hoping Obama gets another 4 years so he can own the economy the way it is unfolding.

Depression by 2015.

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#299 User is offline   JLV 

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 01:53 AM

George W. Bush, 2012.

I'm writing it in.
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#300 User is offline   Obdigore 

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 02:00 AM

View Postworrywort, on 23 July 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

http://abcnews.go.co...-and-contracts/

Not too far off from the Tea Party's "keep the government's hands off my Medicare" or Craig T. Nelson's infamous "I was on food stamps and welfare and nobody helped me" moments. Except, you know, this is from the Republican candidate for President.


Except the republican base votes on emotion and babies, not things like logic.
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