[QuickTidal]

Briar King, on 06 January 2026 - 04:36 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 05 January 2026 - 12:43 PM, said:

So the rich ones that left the country and have no real vested interest in it? Gotcha.

Actual real Venezuelans in country are mad as hell at this imperialist power grab.

So if people leave/flee their countries they are no longer “real citizens” gotcha.

Not at all. But only canvasing and showing the ex-pats and claiming that Venezuelans are "happy" is wildly disingenuous. That's my point. The American media has a vested interest in showing you that Venezuelans are universally happy about this, so that regime change doesn't get confronted by the general public. I'm trying to say that you're being intentionally kept in the dark by your govt man.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 05 January 2026 - 12:43 PM, said:

So the rich ones that left the country and have no real vested interest in it? Gotcha.

Quote

Between 2000 and 2012, migration consisted mainly of middle and upper class individuals with high levels of education and destinations outside the region.

From 2012 onwards, the second wave was characterized by an increasingly challenging economic and political environment [...]

Since 2015, a massive influx has transformed the regional migration landscape, with the emergence of so-called " walkers " who left the country by land. In 2018, the migrant profile changed drastically: professionals with networks and savings no longer predominated, and the presence of families, single women, children, and elderly people in highly vulnerable conditions increased .

Between 2022 and 2023, there was an increase in migrants heading to North America , especially the United States, through the dangerous Darien Gap route on the border between Colombia and Panama, where they face high risks of violence and exploitation.

[this is a translation of:

Spoiler

Entre 2000 y 2012, la migración estuvo compuesta principalmente por personas de clase media y alta, con altos niveles educativos y destinos fuera de la región.

A partir de 2012, la segunda ola se caracterizó por un entorno económico y político cada vez más desafiante y un desplazamiento intrarregional.

Desde 2015, se produjo un flujo masivo que transformó el panorama migratorio regional, con la aparición de los llamados "caminantes" que salieron del país por vía terrestre. En 2018, el perfil migratorio cambió drásticamente: dejaron de predominar los profesionales con redes y ahorros, y aumentó la presencia de familias, mujeres solas, niños, niñas y adultos mayores en condiciones de gran vulnerabilidad.

Entre 2022 y 2023, se observó un incremento de migrantes hacia Norteamérica, especialmente Estados Unidos, a través de la peligrosa ruta del tapón del Darién, en la frontera entre Colombia y Panamá, donde enfrentan riesgos elevados de violencia y explotación.

https://www.infobae....econd_number%7D

Quote

Regarding socioeconomic levels and the contexts from which they originate and emigrate, [...] 35% of the migrants belonged to the wealthiest social group [...] more than half of the surveyed households with migrant relatives belonged to the most privileged socioeconomic strata. In contrast, only 12%, a smaller percentage, of the households with emigrants belonged to families with a low economic level.

[translated from:

Spoiler

en cuanto a los niveles socioeconómicos [...] la misma encuesta, decía que un 35% de los/as migrantes eran del grupo social más rico [...] la mayor concentración de hogares con reporte de emigrantes se encuentra en Caracas y en las principales ciudades e igualmente, más de la mitad de los hogares encuestados que tenían familiares migrantes correspondían a los estratos más aventajados. En cambio, el 12%, un porcentaje menor, de los hogares con emigrantes respondían a familias con un nivel económico bajo.

https://ong-aesco.or...ZUELA-FINAL.pdf

[QuickTidal]

Would it help to know that I don't read the stuff you clip and post from other sources instead of using your own words?

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 06 January 2026 - 12:54 PM, said:

Would it help to know that I don't read the stuff you clip and post from other sources instead of using your own words?

Oh ffs... you prefer to go by what people paraphrase on social media (frequently riddled with errors and gross oversimplifications) rather than relevant quotes from credible sources? That is a terrible way to determine what's true, and a wonderful way to be misinformed (and chronically enraged). Your objection clearly isn't to length, based on the length of your own posts (and the fact that adding my own paraphrase to every source would make my posts even longer), so I don't think a TL;DR is warranted. But if you really need it simplified for you: you were thinking of the initial wave of migration after Chavez's election, as opposed to the mass migration after 2015, when US and Western sanctions under Trump led to deteriorating socioeconomic conditions. While more than half of the surveyed households with emigrant relatives were rich, and only 12% came from the poorest strata, more than half is still not an overwhelming majority. Reality is messier than your oversimplifications.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: Today, 01:19 PM

[QuickTidal]

Azath Vitr (D, on 06 January 2026 - 01:12 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 06 January 2026 - 12:54 PM, said:

Would it help to know that I don't read the stuff you clip and post from other sources instead of using your own words?

Oh ffs... you prefer to go by what people paraphrase on social media (frequently riddled with errors and gross oversimplifications) rather than relevant quotes from credible sources?

No, I'm just not interested in discussion which consists of you constantly posting snippets of other peoples words, instead of engaging with everyone here the way we engage with others. We've brought this to your attention before in fact, but you persist. You want to engage? Then engage man. This is a discussion forum not a NewsNet.

Moreover, the venue of where I receive my information doesn't matter as much as the person reporting it to me, and their adherence to the hierarchy of evidence. And in the case of the feeling of the Venzuelans about this, grassroots news orgs on the ground in the country had video of the people speaking for themselves...if that's not from the horses mouth, I don't know what is. And that's one of the things I was seeing, and hearing.

But let's get into it...the sources you post, as usual, have caveats that make them suspect for context....infobae being the purview of a wealthy Argentinan businessman with interests in North America notwithstanding...so not exactly unbiased. It also leaves the context out of migration in general numbers. It uses the big scary number of migrants in the last decade being 8mil, right? That seems large until you realize the country has 31million+, and then that's divided across an entire decade or more, and even then it's not split up into viable numbers based on social status...the article can TELL me till it's blue in the face that most of the recent migrants were not in any way wealthy or well off enough to shift...but I am given no proof whatsoever of that demographic split in that article. Not even the linked R4V is able to definitively tell me that, so I'm talking the articles' word that it is so?

Does this mean that my original statement is wrong? I would argue that since the vast majority of the news items showing "celebrations" are either misinformation (Alex jones posted anti-Maduro demonstrations in Caracas from 2024 and pretended it was now; and another newsworthy example was actually in Florida coincidentally where the wealthiest of the diaspora landed), or happened in America where the migrants would be more well off than "walkers" in Latin America. Does that mean your source is BS? No. It means that everything is filtered through news orgs with a vested interest in having a narrative.

Am I saying that there aren't poorer migrants leaving the country? No. All I said was that the "proof" being offered up on the American news about Venzuelans being universally happy about this, is filtered through American lenses...and again, this is not to say Maduro was good or that they should not be happy he's gone (though unseating him and leaving his entire govt apparatus in place speaks to the idiocy of the trump admin)...more that "American Regime Change" has rarely yielded good results for the nation in question.

Azath Vitr (D, on 06 January 2026 - 01:12 PM, said:

That is a terrible way to determine what's true, and a wonderful way to be misinformed (and chronically enraged).

No sir, my point was that I find the way you discuss on the discussion board irritating. Just flinging (sometimes oddly sourced, or contextless) news items into the ether, instead of engaging in discussion as you see it and then linking at the end for proof of what you said if that's required.

Azath Vitr (D, on 06 January 2026 - 01:12 PM, said:

But if you really need it simplified for you: you were thinking of the initial wave of migration after Chavez's election, as opposed to the mass migration after 2015, when US and Western sanctions under Trump led to deteriorating socioeconomic conditions. While more than half of the surveyed households with emigrant relatives were rich, and only 12% came from the poorest strata, more than half is still not an overwhelming majority. Reality is messier than your oversimplifications.[/size]

And this just proves that you missed the entire point of my comment about the POV through the lens of America that MAGA is pushing that this is universally a loved thing...when many in country know what a poison pill it is.

You know you and I can discuss things here without going for the throat, but I find it hard to engage with you when you come off like every comment I make is worthy of derision, or calling what I've posted oversimplifications since I'm not giving a lecture on the subject and diving deep.

[QuickTidal]

Arrested mid-protest about Venezuela....for allegedly blocking the street...the bullshittiest of bullshit charges...but yeah, don't mess with the narrative about Venezuela in the States, or the Law will snatch you.




America is such a mess.

Silence all opposition. Make clear the cost to disagreement is high and silence anyone else thinking about it.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: Today, 02:03 PM